mercer

It’s just a camera... no war necessary. I went down the 4K path with Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, and Canon and didn’t like my images until I started shooting 1080p Raw on the Micro. And then I preferred the ML Raw from the 50D I bought for the hell of it. I was all set to preorder a GH5 until I stumbled upon some 5D3 ML Raw videos and I never looked back. I thought the P4K would be my upgrade but I haven’t seen enough, knowing my skill set, to convince me. I recently ended up buying another Micro for pretty cheap but I find myself reaching for my 5D3 every time I do a test, or plan to shoot something, so I may sell it to fund a short film. As I said earlier in the thread... when one of the major manufacturers offer internal FF 4K Raw, for $2500 or less, I’ll upgrade. Until then, I’ll stick with my 5D3. If I can’t make a decent film on 14bit FF 1080p Raw... no amount of resolution or sharpness, will help me.

I sometimes miss the simplicity of shooting with a P&S. AEL and AFL allowed such artistic freedom where the frame was all that mattered. The XC10 built upon that a little with gorgeous Canon Log 1080p. The Panasonic FZ2500 was almost better. But once I got bit by the ML Raw bug, it was hard turning back to any compressed codec. I love that short piece you did. The color was gorgeous and the DR was more than enough. I particularly liked the detail on the shed door. If Canon would release a sub-$1000 camera that has IBIS and Canon Log (and obviously 24p) they would end up selling more of their higher end cameras, IMO. I understand the point of holding back some features... all of the companies do it, but no 24p... it’s just nonsensical. The 5D3 has an OLPF and a faster buffer so aliasing and overheating aren’t an issue, but I love ML Raw from the 5D2. Some of my favorite ML videos were shot with that camera. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of this guy’s work, but he makes 5D2 Raw shine... Everything except the drone shots is 5D2 ML Raw... He has a bunch of videos that I highly recommend.

@Eugenia I’ve been reading your blog since your Canon P&S days. I learned a bunch back then, so thanks. I have a 5D3 (ML Raw), a BMMCC, and an old eos-m, I don’t really use anymore. I passed on the M50 to see if this generation of cameras would have 4K and DPAF... I was excited to hear that they did... but then when I learned there was no 24p... I was completely dumbfounded. I still love my 5D3 and feel no need to own a bunch of cameras, so I probably should thank Canon, because they just saved me some money. I’m keeping a hopeful eye on the Sigma FP’s price and if it’s something I can manage, I may replace my BMMCC with it and slowly build a kit while I finish my current projects on my 5D3. If the price isn’t right, I can happily shoot another 2 years with ML Raw and save my money for the first major manufacturer to give me internal Raw at less than $2500.

I was just looking at the product page more thoroughly and I really hope this camera is in my price range. Any new whispers? I’m really curious about the 8 and 10 bit Raw and the director’s viewfinder function.

I prefer the exposure meter and would try to underexpose by a half a stop or so with CineLikeD... I found there was better color depth that way. But in the end, it was shot dependent... expose for your subject and when you can... protect your highlights.

Yeah, it’s so dumb, it almost seems like it may be an arbitrary decision and not intentional crippling.

A C100 Mark II sounds like a great option for you and if you don’t mind used cameras, you can save some money on it as an interim camera until the market shakes out. I’ve seen a few sell for around $2000 on eBay.

Haha, I don’t want an invite to that party... it sounds like a sausage fest. Stock footage is cool... 6K is perfect for that. Do you make some good cash doing that? Truth be told, I don’t want an S1H either. I actually find it a little pricey for essentially a FF GH5.

Well, we hope Sigma gets it... it really depends upon the price and if they’re able to get that signature Foveon color with a Bayer sensor. What price is right for you? I’m hoping $2000 or less... hopefully closer to $1500. But I suspect it will be closer to $3000... which is just too much for me. That’s a good question... according to their q2 report, camera sales were down and they still sold over a million units in one quarter... how many of those were cinema cameras... I don’t know but probably more than you think.

In the US, the P6K is $2500. Canon batteries are $60 a pop. From my understanding, a battery lasts 30-40 minutes. I’d need at least 3 hours worth of power... that’s another $360. The battery grip is $250. Media would be another $500... bare minimum plus tax. Right there you’re right around $3800. Sure with the S1H I’d need to buy media and batteries but I’d also get a better build quality, FF, IBIS, longer battery life, tilt-able and articulating screen. It’s just a better deal on a better built camera with full frame. But in all honesty, why do I have to justify my opinion to you? Every single shooter on this site has different needs and budget. For me, $3800 isn’t worth it. On another note, I hope your shoot went well this weekend. What are you working on?

Sorry I didn’t know the two line rule. And regardless if you find it lazy, to some, battery life is a legitimate concern. And with that concern comes expense. I would only use internal batteries and/or the battery grip and internal media. By the time you pay for all of that, with tax, you are damn close to $4000... sorry but for that money I’d rather have the S1H or pay a bit more for a C200.

I agree. This lack of 24p is an alarming omission and hopefully stupidity like this doesn’t trickle down to the other manufacturers. With Sony and Panasonic refusal to update their lower tiered cameras in a few years with any meaningful upgrades, I’m afraid this could be a sign of what’s yet to come. Now obviously Sony has introduced some better AF but it’s pretty crazy that Canon now has a higher bitrate codec than Sony and Panasonic 4K cameras in the sub-$1000 market.

I’m not underrating anything. I really like the image from BM cameras... I’ve owned a few over the years and own a Micro now but there are just too many workarounds for my style of shooting. So I WOULDN’T pay $2500 for a BM camera, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s a fair price for someone else if they don’t mind dealing with the inherent quirks. As far as your last paragraph, I’m unsure if you’re referring to me directly or just in general... but either way, support gear matters to people’s budgets... if that’s production or post-production... so shouldn’t those costs be considered when people purchase cameras?

It’s no surprise really. Canon had no reason to upgrade their consumer cameras with 4K. Sony and Panasonic had a vested need for 4K material. In the end, the demand for 4K won and Canon was left behind. Back in the 80s, Canon gambled with AF and it helped them, this time... DPAF hasn’t been enough... no matter how good it is. Of course, IMO, Canon has been so anti-4K that they have painted themselves into a corner and now with this 24p fiasco, if they ever have any interest in the consumer/prosumer video ILC market, they will have to start offering more.

I love BM and still find the BMMCC to have one of the nicest images but every BM camera I’ve ever owned has come with its own set of headaches. And anyone who has ever shot with a BM camera, should understand why they’re able to undercut the major manufacturers. Exactly. I think people complain about Canon on forums for two reasons... they’re either Sony/Panasonic fanboys or they just want to shoot with a Canon camera but the company makes it too difficult sometimes to justify the purchase. But any shooter should be able to make t2i footage shine if they had to.

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn’t pay $2500 for a Blackmagic camera. But I may rent the 6K sometime when the demand drops.

I think the C200 looked the best in the studio shot... the BM cameras made the girl look sickly and two-dimensional in comparison. I even preferred the C200 over the Red Helium (I hope I don’t get a cease and desist order). With that being said, I still believe Canon is making a huge mistake taking 24p out of their “lower” tiered cameras... regardless of their reason for doing it. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter, Canon does not offer an inexpensive camera that I am interested in, so if/when I am in the market for such a camera, I will look to another brand.

I use the MLV App, if I quickly want to get my footage into FCPX but if I want to go through Resolve to FCPX, or use Resolve, I use MLVFS... https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13152.0 Basically, MLVFS is an on the fly CDNG converter. Resolve will recognize the .mlv files from your 5D3 as .cdng files so you can use the Raw Panel in Resolve and save a conversion step.

Idk, for what she’s doing... a Canon DSLR is probably her best option.

Haha, at least you’ll look hardcore on set with the PL lens. Dollar for dollar, though, Canon EF lenses are still the best lenses around for new lenses, but there’s no reason buying them if there isn’t a worthwhile, native camera option to mount them to.

The M50 may be Canon’s best selling camera... so there’s no reason to cannibalize their entry level mirrorless camera with their highest consumer DSLR. SIGH... I honestly don’t know the reason. Apparently, this stupid licensing fee theory is gaining traction but I think it’s much simpler... Canon will not put 24p into a camera that is cheaper, with a smaller crop, than the eos-r... simple as that. They invested too much into the R camera and lenses to lose sales. They are taking a huge bet on brand loyalty. The funny thing is... this whole fiasco has made me question my EF lens collection. I was well on my way to building a nice little set of EF lenses including zooms, primes... with a couple L lenses into the mix but if I can’t have a small Canon DSLR or mirrorless to use them with... why bother... I can just put the money towards some Samyangs instead. I love the 35mm f/2 IS, but I also love the 28mm 1.8 but paid next to nothing for it... so which one will I keep... Btw, I wouldn’t be surprised if they released a FW update to remove 24p from the M50... lol.

The digital calipers for the win. Sigma already have some FP accessories listed and the basic grip doesn’t add much horizontal size to the dimensions.

To add: I do acknowledge that I’m the weirdo here. It isn’t strange for people to want more from their tools. I’ve just realized what I need and how much I’m willing to spend for it.

Well said. Yeah, that video looks nice but if I’m being honest, that same image seems possible with a GH5s and Matteo Bertoli’s Buttery LUT. The IBIS is nice and was used very effectively during the space shuttle sequences but the controlled shots were definitely the polish of that film. The detail was nice in the lowlight interior shots but I think a little light would have been more effective to help the near blown out windows. With that being said, it’s hard to really judge it on a technical level without knowing more about the details of that shoot and that may shed more light on some of the specs that I am making light of. I do like that Varicam color, though.

Yeah the Z6 is getting stupidly low in price. I’ve always liked Nikon but with this ProRes Raw fumble, I think they may be better off bringing internal Raw to the camera to try and save the entire Z lineup. The Panasonic S lineup isn’t knocking it out of the park, either. I think they really need to release so close after announcement before BlackMagic figures out how to bring IBIS to their next camera in October... hahaha. Honestly, if the 90D ends up with 24p, it’s as exciting to me as any of these other cameras. Lol. And although, I am one of the few that thought Canon had some decent innovation with the EOS-R, if they don’t up their game soon... then they may as well become a 3rd Party lens manufacturer... a $20,000 cinema camera that doesn’t have Alexa or Red in the name, seems a little pointless when compared to what the other manufacturers are doing for a few thousand dollars or less. As of now, the FP is the only interesting camera for me. Hopefully, it lives up to the hype I’ve built it up to be.