TheRenaissanceMan

​Like I said, all I need is 10-bit and Samsung will have basically my perfect camera. I rather like their lenses, too. They're good, small, and cheap--a killer combination. 

​The noise is competitive with other cinema cameras if shot as such. Sensor size has nothing to do with age; S16 is an established format. The codec is still a gold standard in the industry today. Your other points stand--those original cams could do with proper updates. 

​Fair enough! Just clarifying. While the Ursa doesn't play in the same league as the Pocket or Cinema Camera, it's definitely of keen interest to a lot of us EOSHDers. 

Blackmagic certainly addressed the consumer crowd with the video assist--an affordable, lightweight 1080P 10-bit recorder is a dream come true for amateurs. 
 

Blackmagic's site says "Shipping in July," so it should be soon. The Blackmagic Pocket already had a pretty fast RS, but this just adds to its appeal as "digital film." Now I can whip pan like Edgar Wright with no fear!

​Not even for music videos? Or are you not doing many of those anymore?

​In what regard besides resolution?

If it's appropriate to discuss the C100 Marks I and II, Kinifinity, and FS7, surely the $3000-$5000 price of the Mini doesn't remove it from consideration.

​They fixed two of the biggest issues with the original, limited frame rates and battery life, on top of giving us global shutter with little to no DR penalty. That's damn impressive from where I'm standing.

​The BMPCC and BMCC are still cheap and still excellent, as is the new BMMCC. 

​-No overheating
-No record limit
-A larger library of smaller, lighter lenses
-Longer battery life
-10-bit recording
-Faster AF
-Faster burst rate
-Larger buffer
-Fully articulating screen

I may be missing something. Still, that's a compelling enough list for some to stay with Panasonic. I'd stick with them for the next product iteration if the GH5 has internal 10-bit and V-Log L.

​Not for .64x or .58x. 

Also...this is totally selfish, but it sucks that this stuff is always Canon mount when my two vintage lens sets are Canon FD and Minolta MD. :'(

​To be fair, we don't know how rolling shutter or low light will be yet. Also, Samsung has a great (if small) lineup of pancake primes that offer excellent performance. Sony's FF lens lineup is improving, but those options are anything but small. 

Andrew, would you mind including the NX500 in this shootout (if you still have access to one)? For those who don't mind the crop factor, I'm very curious how it compares to the other options in this price range. Most of the samples I've seen have impressed me given the price point, but it's hard to judge based on a final retouched project. 

With which cameras? On what settings? Makes a bigger difference to which parameters?

I'm more of a writer and director than a cinematographer, so I tend to evaluate images by feel. Looking at 10-bit, I see a much greater depth, tonal clarity, and a richer palate of colors than any 8-bit 4K. This is exacerbated by everyone shooting their cameras super flat, even though we've known for years that shooting 8bit codecs flat ruins their tonality and definition in the midtones--ie, skintones. 

In this test, for example, there's a huge, marked difference between internal 4k and the externally recorded files. https://vimeo.com/101350338 It's not something easy like just sharpness, either. It's an overall aesthetic difference that's easy to notice but hard to explain. The aspect we CAN put a number to is dynamic range. If you squeeze 12 stops of dynamic range into an 8-bit bucket, you only have 21.3 tones per stop. This gives you muddier tones with thinner gradients. With 10-bit, on the other hand, you get 85.3 different tones for each stop of dynamic range. That's huge. It also affects the richness and accuracy of your colors, since the same color with a slightly different tone is in fact a different hue. To me, this also gives a sense of richer detail since the shadows (a huge visual cue for resolution) have better tonal definition. 

I feel like we got caught up in this whole 4K thing to get rid of moire, aliasing, and manufacturers pawning off upscaled SD garbage on us instead of proper HD. Now we've gotten rid of those problems but forgotten what we wanted in the first place: a cinematic look. And in that regard, bit and color depth were always bigger obstacles than resolution.

My two cents. 

​I'd love a m4/3 mount on every s35 and smaller camera. It's by far the most flexible lens mount out there.

​No one knows how the Sony performs until the camera goes out, so let's not disseminate information we don't have.

​It won't help at the pixel level. Equal output sizes, yes. But--in my experience--that won't help as much with the color and dynamic range penalties of high ISOs with smaller pixels. YMMV

Also, the D810 is not the same sensor as the D800(e) and A7R but rather a new/updated model. Ming Thein goes into this in his first impressions and long-term review of the camera. 

​Because as Jimbo laid out, the smaller sensor size has a lot of benefits, not to mention the huge lineup of excellent m4/3 lenses they'd be throwing away by abandoning the format. 

If choice is good, why enforce a "standard" on manufacturers? If I like the 2x crop, and the lenses it allows me to use, how is it in my best interest for Panasonic to leave me out in the cold? Plenty of manufacturers make s35 cameras. If you want one, buy one.

​Pixel-level noise will probably be more similar to the D810 than the A7S, although downsizing will help.

​Cute. 

But you have a point--a disporportionate number of people seem to like using FF glass on a way smaller format because...I don't know. Flexibility, maybe. The beauty of paring down my gear to only m4/3 and s16 means I can build one consistent set of lenses that gives excellent results on all my cameras and balances well with those bodies. Why you'd put huge Canon lenses not designed for the format on a GH4 is lost on me. 

(Besides maybe the Sigma 18-35. That I get. )

​Agreed. 10-bit will always be a bigger leap in image quality than 4K, and I'd love to get that extra bit out of Samsung's amazing sensor. With their efficient compression, it might not even be such a huge boost in file size.

​Then why the hell are you using full frame lenses on a 2.3x crop? 

​Are you kidding? We have far, for more choice right now than we've ever had. It used to be the GH2 or shit. Nothing in-between. Now there's compelling options from Sony, Nikon, Blackmagic, Panasonic, the Digital Bolex people--hell, even Samsung and Olympus! You have every imaginable sensor size to choose from. Why force Panasonic to step in line with the rest?

More information, son! What do you like to shoot? What's your lens budget? Are you a prime guy or a zoom guy? Is the IS important to you, or do you like to stay on a tripod? The more we know, the better advice we can give.

​Jordan Drake in the flesh! Er...in the...text? Haha, good to see you here!

Come on man, details! How do you like skin tones with V-Log? Do you find the 10-bit helps with gradeability when shooting that flat?

​You know, except that everyone who shoots flat on the GH4 or S-Log2 on the A7S can't get decent skintones to save their lives. 

​After trying an NX500 the other day, I'm actually quite impressed with it for the price. The crop factor doesn't bother me--I rarely shoot wider than 40mm anyway. And the stills are gorgeous. 

The RAW stills compression is the thing that really irks me with Sony, not the least of which because they are the only manufacturer that does it. Add to that the poor native lens selection (for APS-C especially) and unpredictable product iterations and I just can't see myself investing in the system. 

Then again, being able to use my vintage stuff as S35 and FF with Speedbooster is insanely tempting for that price. Horses for courses.

The SLR Magic 17mm is pretty dope.

​Just curious, but do the guys on these Swedish forums sell to Americans? I'm starting to get a bit jealous of these deals you're finding.

​If you're a hybrid shooter, keep in mind that the Sony still uses lossy 11+7 bit compression for its stills and has no mic jack for video. 

In what other way than shallow DoF? I find the RAW and DR from the BM cameras opens up way more creative possibilities than simply using a larger format.