Shirozina

24 minutes ago, deezid said:

It isn't.
With Braw and ProRes you get strong sharpening and NR (known as the DSLR look), with cDNG there isn't any - when sharpening set to 0 in Resolve.
With Colorspace V4 you get weird lifeless greens and clipped reds which cannot be recovered. With Red IPP2 or ACES (after pulling back) you get perfect reds and greens.

Small test I made using new Rokinon lenses and cDNG inside Red IPP2 last week - download in 4K
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RRTci4cyRqRsN7vNH1EMEKV1N89AXY9p

I'm still waiting to see the evidence of this 'strong sharpening and NR'. What exactly is your clip showing? 

10 hours ago, mercer said:

Re-read my comment you quoted... I didn’t say to use Rec709... Rec709 is the default in the Raw Panel... or maybe it’s SRGB... either way, I was trying to explain how Highlight Recovery can give you a little more dynamic range in Raw than you would have in ProRes. This function is particularly useful if you have a light in your frame... especially the sun.

and I'm saying ( from the experience of actually owning a P4k) that there is no more DR in RAW than ProRes.

3 hours ago, mercer said:

As far as Highlight Recovery I’m Resolve... have you ever used the Raw Panel? Bring in Raw footage that ETTR’d and you should see it completely overexposed with the Rec709 default... change it to BM Film and your waveform will drop but in many instances the highs will still be flat (slightly clipped) click Highlight Recovery and you get the top end back... it’s one of the best features in the Raw Panel.

Well if you use REC709 then yes you may have clipped highlights but who has this setting if you are shooting RAW?. Again I've not seen any hidden DR above clipping in RAW. Highlight recovery is a bodge to clean up highlights when one channel has clipped. 

4 hours ago, anonim said:

Just to note or remind: in case of additional (and crucial) highlithts recovery possibility (that thebrothersthre3 mentioned in post) there's no need for examples: with RAW you can do it on rec.709 timeline, with ProRes you can't. As simple scenario, shot same scene with both, intentionally making clipped highlights. With ProRes you can't bring them back. With CDNG do such settings in Resolve CameraRaw menu

Decode Using: Clip

WB: As Shot

Color Space:  Rec.709

Gamma: Gamma 2.4

... and picks of highlights are coming back from void (and such view has metaphysical impact on me), so you can further mold distribution of DR as you wish.

You are saying that if there is clipping at the sensor level with RAW then you can fix this in Resolve? This would be highly worthy of posted examples.  

10 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I haven't used the Pocket 4k only the OG pocket. With Highlight recovery in resolve it gets more dynamic range. 

Can you post some side by side examples as this has not been my experience unless the Resolve has misinterpreted ProRes as Video range and clipped the highlights.

12 hours ago, mercer said:

I think the 12bit color depth gives the perception of more DR. Take a shot of a tree in CDNG and ProRes HQ and the texture of the tree bark in Raw will look more realistic and defined due to the extra shades of color. I also notice it with it skin as well. That isn’t measurable DR but it definitely looks better to the eyes.

Can you post some side by side examples of this as I've not seen it in my tests.

I tested ProRes vs CDNG when I first got my P4k  last year and I could see no DR advantage to RAW. Infact unless you used NR in resolve the usable DR on RAW was less. Other differences between RAW and Pro Res exist and have been debated at length but both codecs get the the full DR from the sensor.

8 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Ive never noticed any in my footage but I could be missing it.

Same here and with the previous BMPCC. Some subjects may show it but for most it's a non issue and is easily fixed with an IR cut filter.

9 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If you don't need auto focus, a speedbooster is a cheap easy fix to the crop issue. Although I am not sure why a 1.8 crop is a big issue in the first place. I'd imagine its noisy if you come from the DSLR full frame world. If you are used to shooting with cinema cameras or M43 I doubt it though.

The big dynamic range advantage seems to be when shooting in RAW, especially CDNG. There seems to be a lot of highlight information that something like the GH5 doesn't have.

There is no more DR shooting RAW over ProRes - the P4k simply has more DR than the GH5. 

3 minutes ago, kye said:

@UncleBobsPhotography @Shirozina 

 The fact they're asking about how to do a test, and that their approach is detailed and seems sound would also indicate they might be creating a higher quality product where there is less room for variations.

 

If the final output requires high quality color fidelity then the first place to start is to use a better camera. Nothing wrong with the GH5 but it's not the best in terms of accurate colour or even 'high fidelity' colour. For a start I'd use HLG and not 'Natural' as a profile as this is a recognised gamut and gamma that can be interpreted more easily by a good NLE. If you are going to stick with the GH5 then again it just doesn't need to be that complicated - custom WB before each take.

Sounds unnecessarily complicated. Just custom WB before each shot at your shooting exposure using a grey card or expo disk.  ND, vario nd and lenses all can have different colour casts so this will level the playing field but Vario ND filters because they are polarising will have a much greater influence on the look of the image esp skin texture than any colour cast. 

11 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Soooo I'm going to throw stones here a bit. I tried out the camera an had some serious problems with it. The form factor threw me off. Why for the love of god are BM still putting reflective screens on their cameras for video? 

Tried to test out the camera for a upcoming short. Honestly it did not immediately strike me as being better than the image from my D750, though zooming in the compression differences do show the advantages of the Pocket. The Dynamic range is worse than I was expecting, about on par with my D750. It is vastly inferior to the URSA mini that I had tried previously, and is actually a surprisingly noisy image out of the camera (cleans up nicely in Resolve denoise).

Crop factor was harder to deal with than expected without adding a speedbooster or buying all new glass. Also wanted to rent cine glass for the short, and there is limited options available for wides. 

Most of all seeing the continuing issue of IR contamination from BM sensors seriously drives me up the wall. 

Color is better on the BM, but wondering if a external recorder on the D750 will bridge the gap even further.

Blackmagic (Prores HQ 4:2:2 Arri Alexa Lut) 28mm

D750 (Neutral out of camera) 40mm

You can easily add a protective anti glare cover to the screen. The DR specs for the pocket and Ursa are not a secret so why is this a surprise and also the sensor size is not a mystery so again why is this an unexpected problem? If you are experiencing a noisy image it would suggest your exposure is not optimal - how are you exposing the P4k?

My old Sony PCM-D50 audio recorder used dual recording tracks at different levels as a soft clipping solution and it worked very well. Isn't it a bit like the dual ISO feature in ML for the Canon where it records at 2 ISO's at the same time to increase DR. As knight's fan says the limitation then becomes the DR of the microphone. Also it's great to see all these features but how good does it sound as all digital recorders are not equal in their sound quality primarily in the mic pre amps.

1 hour ago, thephoenix said:

didn't know. what i know is that when you use ultra key in premiere it doesn't import in resolve

 

Sorry you need to render out the clip and not just save it.

4 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

it's gonna take a little while untill we can use the object removal i guess

 

As with when you need the better stabilization in Premier - just import the clip, process, save and reimport into Resolve.

9 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

The whole "gain doesn't matter" thing kinda blew my mind. Audio industry seems to move at snail pace compared to photo/video

Digital Audio is a much more mature tech than photo/video so development has leveled out. Microphones have hardly changed in a long long time with the latest designs being with ambisonics rather than single mics. Digital recorders are already very good and it's as much about form factor and features as it is about the sound quality (although there are differences if you have a 'good ear') 

You still need to set the input level to the A/D and you can still overpower it - after that 32bit just means you can digitally add gain to the data to normalise it without it falling apart. The controls on the front are faders and not analog gain. Does it have an analog input gain control?

I'm holding out for a fairly stable version to be released before I upgrade from 15 which is now quite stable. Can't understand why a Beta version (which is by definition is test software) can't be run at the same time as a stable release version. 

One issue I have always had with Resolve vs PP is that if you start a project in PP you can quite easily 'round-trip' it to resolve to do some grading which is where Resolve has always been superior. However if you start a project in Resolve and try to round trip it to PP and use what I consider to be far better audio tools via Audition it never works properly.  

39 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

This seems cheaper, smaller and more powerful tha the grip and with and you can use a normal V-mount mount on the bottom of a cage to act as a grip.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/09/fxlion-nano-one-v-mount-battery/

Looks like you can power a umber of different things all at the same time.

Well yeah - same with LPE6 batteries though. It's just another thing that can go wrong, and is easily avoided once you stick a grip under your camera. Aren't there issues with using dummy batteries though, and much better to go straight tot eh 12v input on the side?

I'm not aware of any inherent issues with using a dummy battery adapter. I've got both external systems and the problem with the 12v input is that the cable out of the side is much more vulnerable than the cable to the battery sled, you need a more expensive sled with a step up voltage transformer and  special connector, the battery doesn't last as long and you don't get any battery level indication ( it just says AC).

1 hour ago, Anaconda_ said:

True - but the cable going from the sled to my camera just broke. Under the locking mechanism, one of the wires has snapped (not sure how, I'm super careful with it and never leave it plugged in when putting it in my bag) But anyway, it's a problem that can be avoided with the grip... It's also a problem that can be easily fixed with a soldering iron, but when you're on location, that's not so handy.

This grip won't be available until August though - so hopefully some 3rd parties will step up before then anyway. - I also wouldn't mind if they built an SSD holder into it.

Battery sleds with dummy batteries are dirt cheap - no excuse for not carrying a spare ( or even 2 spares as they are that cheap) on an important shoot.

28 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

2 hrs on a single charge while powering external disks. Sweet. 

I get 2.5 hours on an NPF on an external sled which costs way less and is a lot smaller - that's a big unit for not much capacity.

9 hours ago, Kisaha said:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/08/we-take-sharps-upcoming-8k-micro-four-thirds-camera-for-a-spin/

Seriously, wouldn't most of you prefer this form factor for the Pocket4K?!

It even has a hinge, an even bigger 5.5" screen, and almost all the same I/O.

Of course it lacks the front facing Rec Button but I can live with(-out) that!

That form factor may  be to small to cool the internals enough for RAW and internal 60p.

38 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Did you have an A7S during your career years? 

Most of the pros I know prefer/own a GH5 more than a A7S. 

I dare to say A7s is a sail safe camera for youngsters more than experienced videomakers or pros. Just go unlimited ISO and pray.

The GH5 is an all round better camera than the A7s but for low light the A7s was ( and is ) in a different league and that’s why it can deliver the results in difficult circumstances. Oh and pair it with an ext recorder and you still have a competitive image with all the benefits off a full frame. Sometimes wish I’d kept mine....

36 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think you might be calling me a liar?

Interesting.

Actually, a pretty good call because I was.

Probably.

I was genuinely interested in the internals. We could then see what design decisions BM made regarding things like bigger internal batteries, articulated screens and integrated EVF's. Did they not include these to deliberatley annoy people and deny them their perfect camera or were they inevitable design decisions based on internal space and cooling?

7 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yes.

Can you share some pictures as I'd like to make a DIY hinge mechanism. 

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

adding a $10 bracket to the integral screen would have done.

Have you dismantled your camera to see how the screen is integrated with the rest of the camera internals to confirm this ? 

7 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I like Wooden Camera's stuff and a sun hood is a good idea, working with what we've got.

Problem is we've got too little. Price is good. Now let's raise it by $1000 and see a Pro version.

The features you and others want are not going to come in for such a small price premium.