Shield3
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Posts posted by Shield3
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Rumors are the new 1dx Mark II will do 4k @ 60 FPS, 22 MP and have a list price of $5999.
Should be announced shortly. If true, I wonder if the 4k will be full frame and not 1.3x APC-H like the 1dc.
Also this will pretty much destroy the price of new 1dc's - I would think, anyway.
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The D5 doesn't do anything better than the 1D C at all and it isn't even cheaper if you consider the used prices of the 1D C.
Also there are a few unknowns about the D5 such as how well the codec holds up. H.264 4:2:0 at lower bit rates will have to go some to beat 500Mbit/s 4:2:2 MJPEG.
The 3 minute limit is a pretty serious restriction and will be a deal breaker for many.
Anyway since we can get very good low light 4K full frame for $3k with the A7S II with a much more adaptable lens mount, the D5 is a pretty pointless endeavour altogether for video... Even if it had been full frame, it would still be poor value for money compared to the Sony's image.
Completely agree with Andrew, but he and I have owned 1dc's. I got 1 hour 4 minutes with a 256GB CF card (not even a 29 min limit) and it's real 4k - not UHD. Plus....it uses EF glass natively. 3 minute time limit is for kids. Nice to see Nikon finally made a 12/14 FPS shooter like Canon did...4 years ago.
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I did an interview for a contestant for the show "Face Off" on the Sci-Fi channel. She had been selected the season prior to this but couldn't attend. This was the B roll from the Canon 70d. Settings: 85 1.8 @ @ F/2, ISO 800, Standard 0,-2,-1
70d MOV file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWbWQxOGJHQWNXWXM/view?usp=sharing
Last one for now.
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Sony a7s at nighttime - straight out of the camera. Halloween 2014, and it was pretty damn dark.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWWkRKSUpFaWlqSG8/view?usp=sharing
Canon 1dc in 1080p 60 frames per second. These files are huge @ 500 megabit so these will be short.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWaTZHd0ZwMHVqQ3M/view?usp=sharing
Settings:
24-70 F/4 L IS @ 61mm F/5.6, 1/160 shutter (should have been 1/125) 5200 WB ISO 160
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Panasonic AF100 from Oct 2011 - Shot near OSU Campus, Columbus Ohio. Forget the lens; perhaps the 20mm F/1.7.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWS2plWl9PbGpsODg/view?usp=sharing
Here's another 5d3 raw clip with the 300 2.8 IS. I had no ND or drop in filters, and as such the shutter is far too high.
But look at those colors!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWZWlLbEFZSE1QZG8/view?usp=sharing
Sony FS700 240FPS - I adjusted the WB in post as this was a rental back in 2014 and I was testing it...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWRkxrYXFFZDFZZUk/view?usp=sharing
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I save everything, so I should have some contributions here.
First up, Canon 1DC 4k
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWUE1oamQwekRwWGs/view?usp=sharing
F/5.6, 70-200 II @ 175mm, Portrait profile 0,-2,-1,+2 WB: 5200
(If you have the camera settings and lenses let's include those too)
Up next, the amazing and stunning Canon 5d3 RAW - Shot at F/1.6 I believe with the 85 1.2 L II + a ton of ND.
Might be the best looking footage I've ever shot from a pure aesthetic point of view.
Sorry I no longer have the DNG files, but this was brought into Adobe After Effects and I only adjusted the ACR sliders. That's it. No "looks" or anything like that. From Sept 2014:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3W9u9cu-URWcGlZdGRyYUxHRDg/view?usp=sharing
Tough to argue that anything looks better color wise for the money.
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Well sure, I did not argue about the merits of the XLR-adapters and the value of 240fps (which we have used several times). I just took both files into After Effects, compared the exact same shot and came to the conclusion: RAW is sooo much better.
Have you tried pushing around the FS700 in...wait for it...raw? Raw is pretty slick from any camera.
But of course you can always go even further with that analogy. Is the FS700 a usable camera? Yes, but it's wonky as hell and slow as a dingle dongle.
It is slow when you're not used to it, but it does get better. Is it more fiddly, and do I hate the button placement? Yes. But you do get used to it.
I can grab shots with the 5d in mere seconds (and change the iso, aperture and wb very fast) that would take tens of seconds of fiddling with the FS700 plus - oh my lord - it's such a horrible boxy design and the buttons are horrid.
Not if you plan ahead - I hit record and don't need any "card warm up time" to make sure the card is ready to write. Again, we're talking about PAID work here. Again, I shot 5d3 raw for 1.5 years - it's still a "hack" and locked up periodically. Just enabling certain live view modes I could get it to consistently lock up. If you are shooting something you can do over and over it's fine. For one-time paid work I want some reliability and redundancy - hell I cannot even shoot to BOTH cards at once for raw - some people have to use both cards just to get 1080p24 in raw to have enough speed. With the FS700, I can shoot to the SD slot and FMU128 simultaneously for an instant backup.
In varying lighting conditions the 5d3 does not suck ass, it's white balance is years ahead of the FS700. Don't use autoISO, use everything on manual. AutoISO etc are for phones. Though doesn't ML enable the use of smooth iso? Have never used it.
I am not talking about white balance per se, and I do agree the white balance is better (keep in mind who gives a shit about WB if you're shooting raw, remember?). What I mean is if you actually are MOVING with the camera or have a scene with drastically (1+ stop) changes in light. Have you ever shot a scene in the evening, panned around with a bright light source entering the frame, had a bride go from inside a church to outside? If you are shooting a static scene that isn't going to change then sure. Auto ISO is *not* for cell phones - I know what I want my F-stop to be and my shutter speed - it's very valuable to allow the camera to pick the correct ISO in many situations. If you're only shooting your cat under a 60 watt bulb indoors then sure. I have shot stuff where the sun enters the frame and the EV changes 3 stops easily if not more - I need a camera that can handle that. Raw in ML cannot smoothly, and yes, I fiddled for days with the "smooth ISO" setting. Go try it and let me know what you've found out. Hundreds of posts on the ML forums with people complaining about drastic exposure shifts with raw.
So let's compare what each one of us are doing on a shoot outdoors. You have an EVF or a loupe on the LCD, you're fighting screwing your ND filters on each lens, making sure the external audio is working or the non-XLR mics are working, worrying that the ML software doesn't hard lock the body, constantly wondering how much CF card space you have left, and you can't punch in while recording to check focus again. You're doing all that and haven't begun to think about framing and keeping your subject in focus with the thin DOF of a full frame camera that has no touch screen or will EVER have the ability to AF in video mode. Meanwhile I have XLR audio, ND's at my fingertips, working auto-ISO, rock solid 5 hour batteries and dual memory cards to record to. Oh yeah you can't shoot any ultra slow-mo either. I cannot believe I'm even debating this for PAID work really...
For example when you say reliability trumps 95% of IQ I agree. That's why I use the 5d even in h264 while I had the A7s or the FS700. It's actually a more reliable camera than either of the Sonys.
Have you ever shot the FS700? For any extended period? I absolutely agree that the Canon in H264 mode is rock solid, but no more than the FS700. Also FS700 crushes the 5d3's soft h264 footage and it's not even close. I mean if we're back to the IQ discussion.
My A7s got scratches on the LCD in a month and the FS700 is time waster with a fugly image except for the ND- filters. Both need to use emount converters to work with Canon lenses and both have problems with them. 5D3 will give better results for weddings in H264 than the FS700. And that "EVF" on the FS700? That's not an EVF, that's an almost useless loupe.
Perhaps your vision needs checked - with that loupe I can clearly see to do focus pulls, the histogram, focus peaking, and PUNCH in while recording. I can shoot in the mid -day sun without any issues - you have to use a 3rd party EVF or loupe - I need none of that. Your OVF doesn't help out too much once you hit record does it? The a7s I will agree is flaky with the metabones and is a fragile little kitten, but the FS700 has been great for me. We are going to have to agree to disagree about the IQ of the FS700.
You really this THIS footage is "fugly"?
I think the FS700 is still the most feature rich bang for the buck (used) cinema camera you can get right now especially with the Speedbooster and good glass.
When you talk about bodys, buttons etc - nobody mention that 5d2/5d3 are weather sealed, with good L lens one can still shot raw video when it starts raining without any preparation. This is not a small thing when one is on a trip in remote terrain.
This is true KGV5, but for $1.00 I can throw a bag over a FS700 and I'm good. I don't shoot in the rain because I don't like to get wet either.
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I think he was talking about pure image quality... And yeah, the FS700 without the 7Q doesn't even come close to the 5D Raw. The FS700/7Q combo is pretty rad though. There are tons of awesome pieces done with that setup.
The 5D3 Raw is just incredible. The image looks so nice and balanced with hardly any effort spent in post.
I shot the 5d3 raw from around May 2013 to early 2015. It's great for 24p shots with basically static lighting, and does take some time in post to extract the files to DNG and grade. However, if you're shooting scenes where any sort of drastic lighting changes occur, you cannot really use auto ISO as the exposure flicker is a huge issue. Even with all the tweaks I continued to have issues. So forget following a subject from a dark to light scene in one take - the exposure shift is pretty sudden. Yes the IQ is unmatched even with the 1dc downscaled to 1080p, but would you trust it for paid work? Even on stable releases I would still get the occasional hard lockup where the battery had to be removed. It's just too beta for me and not worth the extra eye candy.
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Also, I can stick FE or E mount lenses and get AF in video mode for run and gun work with the FS700, as well as use the touch screen to "tap" to focus if I want. Let's not forget about the 1/2/4 FPS mode for timelapse built in.
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I remember a discussion I had on the DVXuser forums where I told everyone (over a year ago, when ML and RAW arrived) that the FS700 looked like shit compared to the 5d III raw and also that the 5d raw was considerably sharper (because it responded to sharpening way better) and had more dynamic range. And people didn't want to believe it. I didn't bother myself with any screencaps but you can pretty much see the difference in these Andrew's captures (5dmarkII isn't that far off from the 5dIII, most visible difference would probably be the amount of aliasing on vertical lines)
The same thing with the A7s II and the 5d III raw. The A7s II at 4k has those huge compression artifacts and the difference in sharpness is staggeringly small. Also the shadows of the a7s II (especially in log mode) are almost devoid of information.
I think the FS700 looks pretty damn good if you tweak the color profiles a bit, and sure is a hell of a lot more reliable than the 5d3 raw, and a zillion times better for 1080p60/120/240. Each camera has their own strengths and weaknesses. But don't underestimate how good the FS700 looks in good light esp. with the Speedbooster + good glass, or with the Odyssey 7Q and raw.
Also hmcindie - if I were getting paid work guess which one I'd grab? The one that can shoot ultra slow mo, 5 hours straight with a single battery, has built in XLR and ND filters, and is rock solid (no worries about memory cards too slow or random ML lockups)? The FS700 every time.
Reliability and 95% of the IQ trumps questionable reliability, time wasted swapping batteries, screw on variable ND filters for each lens, having a EVF or loupe (and carrying batteries for the EVF), crappy audio to sync in post, huge turn around time converting, etc. Let's say I shoot 1 wedding per week every week of the summer - both cameras will give stunning results for the client and which one will be easier to deal with? The 5d3 in raw sure sucks ass in varying lighting conditions - god forbid you want to use autoISO in raw mode - enjoy the huge exposure shifts!
I will not argue IQ as obviously the raw ML wins. But it's not a zero sum game - the FS700 looks great. I make plenty of money in my regular IT job that I can pretty much get whatever body I want - have owned mutliple GH2's, 1dc, AF100, 70d, 5d3's etc. I stick with the FS700 due to the ease of use and high speed shooting. It just...works. Shot a wedding with a 5d3 in raw mode and ran out of CF space pretty early on, and I had 4 64GB cards on hand.
But to each his own.
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I watched Jackie Brown the following night after The Hateful Eight. It's a far more entertaining and satisfying film and story.
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A used FS700 + 7q would be the same perhaps as a FS5, but we're talking about a FS5+ the damn 7q+ aren't we? I have seen the entire kits (FS700 + 7Q + 2 256GB SSD in the low 5k range USD. Also, I use my FS700 on a tripod mostly so the form factor doesn't matter than much, (not like the fs700 is unbearable to handhold). I don't have these tearing issues with the FS700, and while I'm sure the sensor is newer, is it really all that different? Both are super35 4k CMOS.
The internal compressed doesn't matter when using the Odyssey. Sorry, but IMO the FS700 users aren't gaining that much here other than a bank account with $3500 less in it. You do know with the FS700 you can assign a button for EV and toggle it as needed in Auto gain mode, along with the built-in ND filters. Exposure isn't tough with these cameras.
I just find it odd that you were negative on the FS700 somewhat, and then pay double for a body that doesn't bring a whole lot to the table and has so many issues.
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Silly question, but if you're going to pay for and lug the 7Q+ around for raw, why even bother with the FS5 when used 4k upgraded FS700's are already shooting raw? What am I getting for my extra $3500 other than the electronic ND and the form factor?
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This is a bit exaggerated unless you own the FS700 and have the hands of T1000 from terminator.
The FS700 isn't tough to use handheld. At all. Easy in fact.
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Andrew again I ask:
The 240 fps - can you do the full 8-9 seconds with start/stop trigger (like the FS700) or is it only "half trigger" ~ 4 seconds? Also tell me (us) about this Super16 center crop mode. Is it available for 4k, 1080p and slow-mo?
Is there a 720p 480FPS like the FS700? (actually I think it's a tad higher than 720p)...?
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People want a stronger codec and a higher bit rate so they can "grade" their footage. 95 percent of people end up with worse looking footage than the canon even after spending the time grading. If the color is bad, the whole image is kind of shot. It doesn't matter how clean or noiseless the footage is at that point.
I don't think Andrew would argue the fact that the 1DC looks better than the FS5...
Sure, but for the regular Joe wanting 1080p24 and "right in camera" the C100 might be a better choice.
Thanks Oliver Daniel for helping me stick with my FS700.
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Only other "con" for this compared to the C100 Mark II is Canon's (dare I say these words) "color science" / skin tones. If you still have the 1dc, find someone and shoot both of them side by side if you feel like it.
I seriously looked into this FS5 as I love the UHD internal, the smaller, modular body and the weight. However, my FS700 is normally sitting on a tripod and I'm quite sure the IQ is basically the same. I don't think Sony has really changed the S35 sensor itself that much, and having a FS700 with the 4k upgrade firmware gives me Slog2 and will also work with the 7q+.
I am very interested to hear about this Super16 crop mode though. 4k too? Line skipping? HFR also?
Does it do the full 8-9 second 240FPS start/end trigger and not just a 4 second 240FPS?
Damn you Andrew you're making me want to upgrade.
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I'm just north of Columbus. The only theatre within 200 miles is a 2 hour drive away in Cleveland. Called them today and you cannot buy your tickets in ADVANCE. I was willing to drive up there just because.
So I'm seeing it locally in digital. The horror!
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Just to be clear as it's getting regular nationwide release - those of you who saw it you're talking about seeing the true 70mm "Road Show" screening, correct?
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Anyone who has been to the "Road Show" and viewed this film in the full 70mm glory - was it worth it? I am a pretty big fan of Quentin's movies - I can see this locally on a regular screen but the only true 70mm screening is a couple hours away near Cleveland.
My wife and kids are at her parents this week - am I nuts for thinking about driving up and seeing it?
Love to hear some feedback from the folks on this forum.
Shawn
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Don't know why you listed "slow" as a con with the Sony FS-700 (or hard to shoot with). With the grip, built in ND I can "one-hand" this camera and it's a breeze.
Also, no dings for the transcoding or EVF/LCD only choice (after you hit record) for the NX1? Or the fact they're going out of business / being bought by Nikon?
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I don't think the s35 sensor from the FS700 through the FS7 has even changed THAT much. Codec, bitrate, 4k native, sure. But the sensor itself? I get spectacular sharp footage from my FS700 - almost too sharp. Not sure what is up with these tests. Also I had to really dial the sharpness back on the NX1 I had for a while - it was just too sharp. I did really enjoy how the highlights rolled off though. It got sold as I didn't want to support a 3rd lens system (FE/E + Canon EF + NX mount). The fact it was going away in certain European countries scared me as well as the lack of any smart EF - NX adapters was all I needed to unload it.
1dx Mark II - Rumors of 4k @ 60p, $5999
In: Cameras
Posted
True, but Canon has done 4k for unlimited record time before - I got 1 hour 4 minutes straight with a 256GB CF on the 1dc. Nikon has no prior history that I'm aware of.
I think the truth lies somewhere in between. $6499 street price, 4k @ 24p, 14/16 FPS shooting. I would love Canon to release a 6d Mark II with 4k and a fold out screen like the 70d. Put DPAF in that sucker and a really good codec and it'd sell like hotcakes.