Shield3
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Posts posted by Shield3
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Congrats on the NX1. Great camera. That F2 zoom is good too.
Get EditReady for $50 and it is pretty painless.
RX100 IV overheating mainly in 4K on long shoots, not a problem in the 1080/120fps/240fps modes so far for me.
I have used the RX100 IV as a 1080p camera more than a 4K one. It has the best 1080p of anything I've ever used. Like an FS7 but smaller sensor and 1/8th the price.
Yes that 1" sensor does give you a bit of a flat image at times but S-LOG helps make it look cinematic if you're good at grading. Really helps get rid of the 'video' look to highlights, better dynamic range, smoother roll off, etc. Digital Bolex also has a Super 16mm sensor but it looks cinematic as hell because of the colour, grain, texture, so it is not all about shallow DOF and you have your 1D C for that anyway
My footage from the RX10 II and RX100 IV is coming soon... it doesn't look like camcorder footage!
I'll be interested to see how you get on with AF on the NX1. It is occasionally magic but mostly unreliable and doesn't do what you expect given the specs. Same with the RX10 II and RX100 IV though, continuous AF is really quite terrible in movie mode and HFR, but not as disastrous as it would be on a larger sensor like Super 35mm.... so approach with caution I'd say.
Got the NX1 in today. Updated to latest firmware and I'm shooting video in the WideDR profile. The AF in video mode is great in good light; not great otherwise. I set the AF ON button to toggle AF on and off - this way I can stop it during recording. I think the 120p 1080 is fantastic - my 120p looks as good as the FS700 I rented IMO. I am however trying to figure out a way to punch in while recording. I have the grip + a 2nd battery. One thing that is baffling me is speed of the SD card. I have an old "Extreme" 95 MB/s card and it says it's too slow for 4k recording. My newer, el cheapo cards are rolling right along. Makes 0 sense to me.
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"Remember that the Super 35mm mode would also be able to benefit from the Metabones Speed Booster for an further gain in low light performance of nearly 2 stops."
Huh? Nearly 2? I thought all the FE adapters were 1 stop, and only the Micro four thirds had an extreme speedbooster. I've been known to be wrong though as I HATE HATE HATE using adapters.
This is for the micro 4/3rds - http://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPEF-m43-BT3 - 1 1/3 stop.
The Sony FE to Canon - 1 full stop - http://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPEF-E-BT2
Where is the "nearly 2 stops" adapter for Sony?
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Congrats on the NX1. Great camera. That F2 zoom is good too.
Get EditReady for $50 and it is pretty painless.
RX100 IV overheating mainly in 4K on long shoots, not a problem in the 1080/120fps/240fps modes so far for me.
I have used the RX100 IV as a 1080p camera more than a 4K one. It has the best 1080p of anything I've ever used. Like an FS7 but smaller sensor and 1/8th the price.
Yes that 1" sensor does give you a bit of a flat image at times but S-LOG helps make it look cinematic if you're good at grading. Really helps get rid of the 'video' look to highlights, better dynamic range, smoother roll off, etc. Digital Bolex also has a Super 16mm sensor but it looks cinematic as hell because of the colour, grain, texture, so it is not all about shallow DOF and you have your 1D C for that anyway
My footage from the RX10 II and RX100 IV is coming soon... it doesn't look like camcorder footage!
I'll be interested to see how you get on with AF on the NX1. It is occasionally magic but mostly unreliable and doesn't do what you expect given the specs. Same with the RX10 II and RX100 IV though, continuous AF is really quite terrible in movie mode and HFR, but not as disastrous as it would be on a larger sensor like Super 35mm.... so approach with caution I'd say.
Yeah the NX1 + 16-50 F/2-2.8 will be here Monday. I will use it for things I either cannot do with the 1dc or just times I want to quickly grab a handheld shot / have AF in video mode. No, it won't replace the 12FPS AF low light camera beast that is the 1dc. It's going to be for reach / good light / casual shooting. I'm hoping Samsung has introduced some newer flat profiles with firmware updates. I thought this video looked pretty good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEa9ImGqyxo
As always you know there's no 1 perfect camera that:
Does great in low light / Tracks moving subjects well (sports shooter)/ AF is super quick / high burst rate / slow motion (1080p120 or higher) touch screen and AF in video mode / has FF/ 1.3x / s35 crop modes
The 1dc excels in both stills and video (Best stills camera I've ever had - and really damn good at video) But it'll never have a flip out screen / AF in video mode / have a built-in EVF / do really good slow motion / have peaking. The a7s does many of those but way too slow to shoot sports. I think the a7r II will help bridge the gap, but I would challenge anyone to join me shooting indoor sports - grab any Sony body and any lens and I'll grab the 1dc+135L and we'll see who gets more keepers..:)
Put the 1dc sensor in the 70d with better battery life and high framerates (as well as peaking) and that's pretty much be my dream camera.
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It's an interesting strategy to say the least because it means video shooters end up buying two bodies.
Like I said in the article, you can't put them in the function menu or on a custom button... so you would have to assign them to one of the mode dial "memory modes" instead, but problem I find using those is that it also saves preset shutter speed, aperture, white balance, etc. so you could have exposed one way in Movie mode then gone to memory mode and have it all nicely fucked up for you.
On my A7s I could not assign "APS-C" mode to any of the memory banks. It would not save this option; however I had it set last always won out. Try it and you'll see...
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Where did you buy it? How much?
Used on ebay. NX1 + grip + 2nd batt + S 1650 2-2.8 lens for $1970 shipped.
- IronFilm, Mattias Burling and vaga
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The only other camera I know of to do 1080@120fps cheap(ish) is the NX1 - $1300 new (not including lens).
After staying up half the night (and working 13 hours yesterday) I ended up getting a used NX1 + grip + 16-50 F/2-2.8.
I love my 1dc, but this will be more for casual shooting. It does things the 1dc doesn't, like:
Built in EVF / touch screen / 120FPS @ 1080p / AF in video mode - even high speed AF! The gh4 doesn't even do that. My wallet wishes I'd never have watched this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DigAgYD-QY
While on paper the Sony looks amazing - I pulled down a few videos for both this and the RX10 II - I just didn't care for the image on the Sony. With the small sensor it just looks to camcorder-like. Yes, I know you can get close to the subject and zoom out and get nice shallow DOF - but look at that video I just posted - that's @ 45mm. I think the REC 709 coming out of the NX1 will be just fine - I'll dial down the contrast/saturation a bit. It will be a pain transcoding the h265, but that's why we have beefy machines, right?
Nx1 and rx10ii are over a thousand dollars. rx100iv is just under a thousand and does aliasing/moire free 120fps (unlike the nx1) -also with more detail than the nx1. At least that's my understanding. That has to be the cheapest camera for 1080p 120fps and with quality better than much more expensive cameras. Nx1 has a larger sensor though and interchangeable lenses and maybe you'd like those colors more. But for your specifications, rx100iv is the option.
I love how small the Rx100 IV is, but the overheating reports scare me. My original RX100 would overheat and shut off during baseball games. So did my NEX-5n and many other Sonys. While it's true for flat out detail and sharpness the new RX models are probably the best, I much prefer the look of the larger sensor NX1 so that's what I bought.
RX100 MK IV / RX10 II are best for this, hands down. Forget the interchangeable lens mount options if you need a sharp image & moire free.
That's a good budget choice. Way off the RX100 IV for quality but not so far off NX1's 1080/120fps, which looks like upscaled 720p anyway.
I think the 1080p/120 from the NX1 looks pretty damn fantastic. Plus it will hold the AF. Think about that. I shoot my son playing travel baseball - now I can shoot slo-mo him hitting and running through all the bases - that's far too tough to pull focus on with any sort of shallow DOF with the 1dc. This 1080p120 looks far better than the 1080p60 I'm getting from the 1dc. You know that as well as I do. Don't know about you Andrew, but all the sample videos I've seen from the 1" sensor'd new Sonys look like camcorder footage. I don't want anything that sharp at 4k.
- Liam and Marco Tecno
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Just like to shoot occasional slow mo - 120FPS @ 1080p would be great. The cheaper the better.
I don't shoot slow-mo very often. Going to research things like the LX100 now...stuff like that. Under $1000 for sure as that's all it's going to do for me. Flip out screen would be amazing too. -
The 1dc is three years old and it can handle the workload, along with being one of the 2 or 3 best sports cameras ever produced.
Not sure why people keep saying the 1dc is "3 years old". It was released officially March 2013. 2 years 4 months old. It came out AFTER the 5d3 and 1dx. Hell Andrew didn't even review it until the end of April 2013, and we know that guy's pretty cutting edge.
http://www.eoshd.com/2013/04/the-canon-1d-c-review/
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I purchased the 1DC when it first came out. Been sitting on the fence, and reading various opinions about it. Entertaining to say the least. I maintained from the beginning that the image ranks high with the more expensive cinema cameras. The 1DC can match film if properly shot and graded in my opinion. Is it a perfect camera? ...No, but does a truly perfect camera exist? One can debate the merits and the pitfalls but to what end? The camera isn't for everyone. It does take a while to understand the 1DC. I do agree with Sir Andrew Reid current opinion as to the strengths/views about the 1DC. Just my 2 cents. Cheers.
I for one don't think the 1dc is soft at all. I've heard as many as 1600 lines when downscaled to 1080p. Sharper than the C300's 1080 according to this video:
But make no mistake - I can sharpen it up plenty in post if I want a super sharp image even at 4k. I just need to figure out how to grade LOG better.
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Question for you Andrew - I am comparing video I shot - first set (was ISO 400 / F8). Sky is nice and blue. 2nd shot, ISO 100, F/4. 2 stops faster but 2 stops less ISO. This one the sky is really blown out and can't be recovered much in post.
Now I know the default ISO for C-log is 400. But I shot in neutral color profile all day today (and verified this). Do you shoot non-log in ISO 400 too?
Thanks - I think I will start shooting this way from now on.
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Ha. This was the number 1 trigger which made me think "sod this", get a 1D C. The A7S being such a TINY camera, to bolt on a massive recorder which an invisible screen in direct light was just horrible. The 1D C is small but it also self contained and 'just works' unlike 5D3 raw or recorders that exhaust huge bulky batteries in 30 mins. I like simplicity!!
I guess I'm not professional as I don't lug an external monitor around with me. Yet I've shot things for the Sci-Fi channel (auditions) and the last wedding I shot video for I only used the rear LCD - those brides and grooms didn't run around much, so keeping focus was easy.
I will say I lugged the 1dc up a huge hill today along with a really heavy Benro tripod, the 16-28 Tokina, 150-600 Sigma and the 24-70 F/4 - I take back everything I said - I need a lighter rig!
Got some fantastic video footage and came down and shot some hummingbirds (stills). All with (gasp) one camera body. 12FPS I had fantastic images to select from.Attached is a 4k video screen grab (I didn't shoot C-log today due to the vastly changing light) and a hummingbird still shot (first time I ever tried to shoot those birds - man they're fast!)
The bird shot was @ ISO 25600. Not too bad. Not as good as the a7s of course at this ISO range, but still salvageable.
The video was F/8, 24-70 F/4 lens, 1/50 shutter. Used the "neutral" setting with 0 sharp, -2 contrast / -2 saturation. Pulled back a bit with Premiere CC 2015 and the Lumetri plugin. I'm just trying to learn the 1dc and how to get the best out of it.
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Still for the low 3500£ you can get an Nikon D800+NX1/GH4/a7s or any other sort of combination, which in the real world would make much more sense, at least thats what i'd think. Every Canon cinema camera is, in my opinion, overpriced and simply outdated, they are great tools and deliver great results, but still overpriced.
How many different mounts do you want to actively support in this scenario? How many adapters do you want to buy? I'm saying as an "all in one" camera system (stills and 4k video) NOTHING beats the 1dc right now. Nothing is that close. Widest range of glass, a fully mature "system" with CPS support, and the best color system. The 1dc will not shoot slow motion like the FS700, nor has quite the low light of the a7s, nor the EVF of many cameras, nor the built-in ND or XLR inputs. But I submit it's the best "all arounder" on the market for both stills and video - and I shoot about 50/50 of each. I am the target market for a used 1dc. If I were a landscape shooter I'd be getting the new a7rII or a D800/800E. But I shoot things that move, and quite often. I don't do slow shutter waterfalls - I shoot my son playing travel baseball, his indoor basketball, and my daughter's indoor gymnastics. Also weddings and talking head interviews, and occasionally my friends' music in bars.
I decided to sell my a7s when I got fed up with two things -the time it took to get the colors "right" (to me, personal preference) and having the Metabones EF adapter give me errors and STOP recordings mid-take. Also had to carry a 1dIV with me to shoot stills. Hell I sold my a7s + 6d + IDIV (and made money) buying the 1dc. It replaced 3 cameras for me. Is it perfect? Of course not - I still have to mount an electronic EVF and fool around with variable ND filters. Sound is always a challenge as well. But to me and MY uses, it's the best all arounder. If all you do is interviews any of these cameras will do the job. If you're not a stills person they are fine too. If you want a camera that can take stills that could be featured (and has been) on the cover of SI, you could do a lot worse than a 1dx/c.
Have a great afternoon folks - going to go shoot.
Shawn
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To be fair - as has been pointed out - the 1Dc is $8k new, the A7s is $2.5k new. I could take almost any camera that's nearly 4x as expensive as the A7s and talk about how much better it is than the A7s. Even the FS7.
Regardless, it's crazy that you can get quality that rivals (or betters) an $8k camera in a $2.5k body. A lot of what you've said is subjective opinion. But anyway, I'll bite for a few of these:
This is a personal preference. You like the EF mount, and the glass that comes with it so for you, you are more likely to choose a Canon over another camera. I could just as easily talk about how a Nikon is better because it has a native Nikon mount and there's a lot of Nikon glass available. Or I could say that because I prefer the Sony E mount glass, I prefer the Sony as I can use glass that is of equal or better quality to Canon L, but is smaller
But we all know Canon glass is far superior than Nikon or Sony. Where's the 24-70 / 70-200 2.8 for the E-Mount? Where's the 50/85 1.2? 135/2? The fastest short lens they have is a 35/2.8 (which I owned) and it's ok. No 24/35/50/85 1.4 or 1.2. No good 2.8 ultra-wides. Please do not compare Canon glass with what's available on the Sony FE mount. I'd certainly say that's a plus.You can't really say this a plus or negative for either camera. See my points mentioned above. In addition, the small FFD on the Sony means you can adapt pretty much any lens you want to to the camera, including PL glass.
You like your Canon glass - that's great. The fact that the Sony can even work with the Canon glass at all is great. This point is like me complaining that when I try and mount my Sony lenses via a third party adapter on a Canon EOS-M, it doesn't work very well, and every now and then I have to disconnect/reconnect. Surely the first thing you would say to me is 'if you want something that's going to work all the time, you're better off buying native glass. You can't buy a Canon and then complain when it doesn't work very well with Sony lenses.' The reverse is true as well.
And my A7s is compatible with all my Sony flashes/adapters/teleconverters without the need for adapters
The Sony flash system is horrific. Overheating, lenses falling off mounts, the whole Minolta/standard hot shoe switch. Even the most die-hard Sony fanbois hate Sony/Minolta flashes.And I can use any of my Sony E mount lenses full wide open without fooling around and mounting in some random mode too
How many FE mount lenses go to 1.4? 1.2? Right, none. One single fast lens - a 55 1.8. That's all you have natively.That's the body design of the 1D series. Is it better than the 5D as well because the 5D isn't designed in this way? It's strange to talk about the 'extra expense' of a grip, because an A7s + grip is still cheaper than even a second-hand 1Dc. In fact, a Sony A7s + grip + Canon adapter is cheaper than a second hand 1Dc.
With the A7s, I can take my grip off as well. I have the choice of shooting with the grip/portrait mode, or small, lightweight mode.
If might be cheaper for those 3 than a used 1dc, but you're not shooting 4k video with that setup. Now add in your 2k Atomos device.$2500 A7s (new) - ok $1700 used since Sony prices drop like stones.$1700 + $400 Metabones + $299 grip + $2k Atomos = what I paid for a used 1dc with 2 OEM Canon batteries. I'll be fair and call the storage for the Atomos and the CF card prices a "wash".And I like my EVF with zebras, peaking etc. for shooting video. Horses for courses.
I'll take your word for this one - but I find it unlikely that Sony have dramatically less service centres.
LOL You can't be serious here. Go read about Sony service - you a7s breaks and you won't see it again for quite a long time. The 1dc breaks and they'll send me a replacement.But the Sony beats it in low light performance
This is true. It should at a paltry 12 megapixel. It's not like the 1dc is bad in low light; far from it.
I'm glad you like both cameras, but c'mon pretty much every single one of these is a personal preference thing.
4k internally, 12FPS, better colors, unlimited recording time, 3 different crop modes are pretty much all either pure fact or widely regarded as superior with the 1dc.
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"The Canon colour science I can only describe as magic."
I completely agree. Also, I highly recommend those of you getting a used 1dc to pick up this EVF; it is amazing (and light) and mounts solidly on the hotshoe:
Kinotehnik LCDVFe Electronic Viewfinder
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171868008333?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I paid $560 for mine (used) about 2 weeks ago also on ebay.
It has 5 presets and you can set different zoom levels for each preset, then MAP each preset to up/down/right/left. I have "up" mapped to standard framing / hit up again and I see my over AND underexposed areas, and hit up again I get focus peaking. You can do false colors, crop marks, B&W, continuous histograms. I have left/bottom/right set to different zoom levels - I do 2x, 1:1, and 4x (left right bottom). All can be done while recording - and the LCDVFE runs off of 4 AA batteries (I get about 5 hours) and has a spare battery cage included for a quick hot-swap. Lastly, I bucked up and paid $155 for the remote control for this, so I can toggle all the settings with my right hand while pulling focus with my left. The damn viewfinder weighs less than a pound without batteries and you can flip the loupe back and use it like a regular small retina monitor.
Andrew, I cannot recommend this enough.
Shawn
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I could name just as much as the NX1 destroys the 1DC.
In image quality, either stills or 4k video? No. Low light? No. Color/skin tones? No. AF tracking / sports shooting? No. Price? Yes. But, it destroys the 1dc. Look, I like the NX1 and can't wait to see how it pans out later on - some very cool technologies built in for sure. But I'm in the here and now.
This camera is $8k new at bh. Should this not be compared to something in the same price range? Sorry, but I'll take an FS7 all day long over this awkward format.
Let's be fair, can't compared used prices to new. Maybe you should include five finger discount price?
The FS7 is a hell of a video camera. People will certainly know you're shooting video with that thing. Not too great at stills either, and the footage I've seen looks very...digital. But to each his own.
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Dude, do you even know what a mini-disc is/was????? :-) Regardless, just enjoy your camera. You don't need to post why you think your camera is better than most. It just makes it seem like you are fishing for validation on your purchase. The fact is very few people care about the 1dc and even fewer want to buy one. Just the way things are...
I'm in my 40's so of course I remember the mini-disc. That was obsoleted by mp3's. How is a 4k internal, 12 FPS sports shooter obsolete? There's nothing that can compare with it. That's why your analogy fails. Yes there are better video cameras (built in ND / SDI / XLR inputs) but how do any of those compare shooting stills? Please explain how a cumbersome A7s + grip + EF adapter + $2k Atomos Shogun suddenly makes a 1dc obsolete?
I could care less about validation - I am thrilled with the 1dc, and I paid $300 or so over a used 1dx pricing for it. The reason I created this list, if you recall, Andrew came up with a list of 25 ways the A7s trumps the 1dc. This of course, was before he actually OWNED the 1dc and took a look at the footage. I think based on the response on this forum and in this thread MANY care about the 1dc.
All I'm saying is they're getting even cheaper in the used market; might make far greater sense than a7s (shortly to be replaced with the a7s mark II) + the Atomos Shogun if you care about 4k.
When the 1dc first came out and it was priced around 12K, people said it was too expensive but they would buy one if it was around 4k.. It's now around that price used, but yet people still say it's too expensive. I would assume when the prices come down even further, people would still say it's too expensive because sony/panasonic, etc. has a camera that is similarly spec'd, but cheaper.. Oh well, I could be wrong. Who cares????
Please tell me a camera that shoots 4k internally @ 1.3x crop and does Full frame 12 FPS stills. Any company. Looking for these "magic" similarly spec'd cameras, as you put it. The closest is the GH4 (2.2x crop 4k). Let's go shoot shallow DOF video, or low light video, or any type of sports and see who wins. I know there is a speed booster for it, but still no AF! I like to "pull" focus via AF before I hit the record button.
Sure sounds like I've got you all riled up with your silly betamax type analogies. They aren't working by the way, sorry.
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Nobody cares anymore. Just like the audio format wars of the late 90's/early 2000's; the more convenient technology has won. The 1dc was too expensive when it was first introduced and now it has lost the momentum. Cheaper, more convenient technology like the a7s has won the hearts and minds of the majority. MP3's used to be scoffed at by "professional audio engineers". Not anymore... Instead of talking about superior "lossless" audio, audio people now talk about and use music formats formats that are downloadable, streamable, and convenient. A lot of that is MP3 base formats (aka the "worse" audio format).
The 1dc is the mini-disc of it's time... It's situated in a niche that only a small segment of people care for. The real innovation is happening in the prosumer field - a larger and more profitable segment.
Probably the worst analogy I've read on here for a long time. Is it "convenient" to lug that hard-to-see $2k Atomos device (in broad daylight) around with the a7s to shoot 4k? Methinks no. Some of us want to shoot in 4k. The 1dc was only available en masse beginning in early 2013 - it's not from 10 years ago. Still easily trumps any of these other "new" cameras as far as image quality, colors, low light, native mount (lens choice) and easily as a sports shooter. Sorry, but it's still the best "all arounder" that exists on the market. Nothing beats it at both...yet. Yes the 12k initial price was absurd, but you can find these used in the 4300-5300 USD price range.
#22 - Being a native EF mount, it has built in peripheral illumination correction and chromatic aberration correction for EF lenses. Light fall off can be tricky to fix in post. Can't get this with the a7s + any adapter + EF lenses.
#23 - 18 megapixel vs. 12. Huge difference.
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I just created a thread with 21 ways off the top of my head that 1dc trumps the a7s. Sure a few of them are stills, but many are not. Most notably the 4k internal, the ISO 400 vs 3200 for log mode, the colors, etc.
Don't know about you Andrew but I got tired of my Metabones IV really quickly. I shoot travel baseball - my gorgeous Sigma 150-600 C would stop recording after about 20 seconds to a minute, and was repeatable every time. Yes I had the very latest firmware on the adapter.
I haven't had the 1dc fail on me yet at all.
C'mon dude...12 out of your 13 points refer to stills!!
Let's narrow it down to video, because it is obvious which is the better stills camera if you want build quality and AF! 1D C is Canon's stills flagship 1D X in all but the badge.
So video...
A7S has better internal full frame 1080p resolution, as it isn't binned, comes from a full sensor readout. The APS-C modes (Super 35mm) on both the 1D C and A7S are quite equally matched for resolution BUT I much prefer the colour out of the 1D C in rec.709 and in Canon LOG it is far easier to grade than A7S in Sony LOG.
You say battery life is an advantage of the 1D C.... Only for stills. In 4K video mode it chews through batteries like a hungry dog in a sausage factory. And these are massive batteries, 5x larger in physical size than the ones the A7S takes!! It is not an economical cool running camera at all for video.
The native EF mount does have its advantages for Canon users. But the metabones errors are mostly fixed now and the A7RII will even sort AF out.
I don't class the A7S's size as an advantage for video... prefer the weight of the 1D C... it is tiny compared to an FS7 or C300 and lighter, but it is not too light like the A7S, so you can use it handheld without as much jitter and it just feels more stable in general. Shame no articulated screen though. The ergonomics are very basic for video... but also, I like the simplicity. Stick a loupe on it. Hit record. Very fast and direct access to ISO, shutter, aperture, IS on/off switch, etc. FS7 is much more complex and slower.
For low light shooting, the video output of the 1D C in 4K mode is actually slightly better than the A7S in 4K over HDMI. But the A7S's internal 1080p is a bit better once you get past ISO 12.800. It can hold on for a couple of stops longer before falling apart. How much you will need those crazy high ISOs in every day situations though, there is some question.
Where the 1D C mainly excels over the A7S for video is purely that organic image. It is less electronic looking, better colour, internal 422 and of course the lovely resolution of 4K without the need to bolt a bulky recorder on. That was my main reason for buying it for video. Other reasons were stills-camera related (I wanted to sell my 5D3 but needed to keep a full frame Canon body for stills & AF).
Where the A7S excels over the 1D C for video... quite a few areas really, but not the BIG one of the internal image quality. 4k 422 Canon LOG at 500Mbit/s thrashes 1080p 420 SLOG at 50Mbit/s. But if 1080p is your bag and you can expertly grade, the A7S image can be lovely. The A7S has the advantage of more video suited ergonomics - built in EVF, articulated screen, focus zoom while recording, focus peaking, etc. It has advantage of price. It has advantages of mirrorless lens mount, it's more adaptable. Works with PL lenses with simple adapter. Works with Leica M stuff. We are talking really high end lenses here that 1D C isn't privy to at all. Also the media is cheaper and it needs less of it. Files much more efficiently compressed. It doesn't really have a dynamic range advantage for video though despite the sensor specs showing a 2 stop advantage at DXOMark for raw stills and without SLOG the rec.709 colour is horrible looking compared to the 1D C's 4K shot on Standard or Faithful for example... Canon's colour science for both LOG and Rec.709 is hands-down superior looking, but I have no idea WHY! Don't forget the A7S has that creatively interesting 120fps in 720p so that is another notch for the A7S.
Will be VERY interesting to see how the A7R II internal 4K compares to 1D C. It isn't likely to beat it. It is likely to get close. But now with the used price of the 1D C and price of a new A7R II kinda meeting in the middle, Sony can't exactly claim the price advantage any more like they could with an $2000 A7S vs $12,000 1D C.
Going to be an interesting few months.
Also, I think it is very important to mention the stills capability of the 1dc over all the other cameras. Again I shoot baseball games - I can unmount my Kinotehnik LCDVFE in about 5 seconds and I'm ready to shoot stills too. I don't have to reach for another body (nor own one).
Lots of us shoot a mixture of stills and video; I could shoot an entire wedding (stills and video) with one body (1dc) if I wanted to.
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1. 4k internal recording. No $2k external Atomos device you need to buy just for 4k footage. All in camera.
2. Better colors / better skin tones. I don't think anyone would disagree with me here.
3. Better camera menus - things are laid out logically whereas Sony has key menu items all over the place, like APS-C mode etc.
4. Far better preset modes. I can set a preset with the Canon to shoot 1/50 shutter, C-log on, etc. with every setting and it will remember (and auto-update if you choose) with the 1dc. The Sony "memory" cannot even toggle/save APS-C mode on or off.
5. Three separate crop modes for video. I can shoot full frame, 1.3 APS-H, or 1.6 S35 mode. The Sony only allows FF or 1.5x crop.
6. 12 FPS continuous burst for stills. 14FPS in jpg high speed mode. Don't know what the a7s is, but let's not compare those two.
7. The 1dc will actually track a moving subject in stills mode (very well I might add). The a7s? I wouldn't even dare to.
8. Native EF mount. Far larger selection of native glass.
9. No adapters required for EF lenses. If I had a dollar for every time I had to disconnect / reconnect lenses with my a7s due to the Metabones IV adapter I'd be able to buy more glass. The Metabones IV STILL doesn't work properly with some 3rd party lenses, like the fantastic Sigma 150-600 C. As of July 2015. Also no light leak / reflections from adapters when using native lenses.
10. Better battery life. No contest here.
11. 1dc handles far better than the a7s - even with the Sony grip. This is personal preference, but as an adult male, I love the handling of the 1d* series bodies.
12. Unlimited recording time - I picked up two 256GB 1200x CF cards and I can record over an hour of 4k straight (1:04:54). This is per card. Over 5 hours (almost 6) of s35 1080p footage. This 1dc does NOT shut off at the 29:59 mark like the a7s.
13. Compatible with all my Canon flashes / adapters / teleconverters without the need for adapters.
14. My 50 1.2 and 85 1.2 II will go full wide open (1.2) without fooling around and mounting the lens in "green" mode.
15. Has a native portrait / gripped mode without the extra expense of a grip.
16. 61 pt. AF with 41 cross-type PDAF vs. Sony's slow AF.
17. Far customizable settings; I can limit the fast/slow burst to whatever speed I want and limit the amount of consecutive shots.
18. Bright pentaprism optical viewfinder - still the best option for tracking and shooting sports. No EVF lag.
19. Canon Professional Services - Many locations available in the USA and worldwide. Sony has a handful of service centers in the entire world.
20. Weathersealing/ build quality. The 1dc is a rugged body that can shoot anywhere.
21. Native ISO for log mode. Canon's is ISO 400 while the Sony is 3200. That's 3 full stops of ND you'll need to carry with you.
Just thought I'd give my .02 - I had the a7s for about 9 months and it's a lovely little camera, but I just got fed up with the Metabones adapter errors. Plus I know the a7s II is right around the corner and should address some of these shortcomings. Both are excellent cameras - I picked up a ~34k shutter count 1dc with 2 batteries last month for $4300 shipped so I'm thrilled to have this level of a hybrid shooter.
Shawn
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It'll be curious to see what the price of that camera will be in a few years.
"That" camera? My post mentioned two separate cameras. Both are great cameras and I'm enjoying the 1dc. I will say that once the a7s II is released, the price of the a7s will drop to around $1200. In 5 years a 1dc will still be worth more than that; a 2009/10 1dIV in good shape still sells in the 1800 range today. People often forget the 1dc is also a 1dx, with the FF 12FPS. I just wish the 1080p60 footage was a tad better but some sharpness in post helps out a lot. The 4k footage on a 4k screen is stunning though.
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Was Andrew ever going to start a list of things the 1dc excels at over the a7s? I have quite a few and the list is growing by the minute as I acclimate myself to the 1dc.
Such as:
Shoot 12 FPS
Actually track a moving subject very well
Shoot 18 megapixel
Have all your most used items all on one screen "favorites" menu
Limit the number of shots in a burst
Internal 4k
Real battery life
Faster startup time
Better build quality
Better speedlight control
Native EF mount (no more Metabones errors!)
Actually will focus Canon EF glass in less than 10 seconds
61 pt AF / 41 cross type
etc.
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Just got the 1dc in - Andrew was not kidding about the image quality. It's like the 5d3 in raw, except reliable and 4x the resolution. I can see why he calls this a "1st level" Hollywood camera. My jaw dropped when I played back the Cinema footage I took.
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After surfing the webs I found a site with a few:
https://www.copy.com/s/t%3ArDIskAZ7Fq1f%3Bp%3A%2FPIXLA%201Dc%20native
Shawn
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Thanks! I've found lots of things on Youtube, but most of them were graded. Was really wanting some C log mov files to fool around with. For fun I threw one in Photoshop CC, converted to a smart object and applied the raw filter - these files really seem far superior even to the 5d3 raw. I sold my 6d earlier and have my 1d4 up for sale; the 1dc is basically taking the place of those.
That Metabones IV adapter may end up forcing me to sell the a7s at some point. My son plays travel baseball so I was out beyond the fence in center field shooting the a7s + the new Sigma 150-600 C - footage looked fantastic, but there must be a compatibility problem as it kept shutting off. Sigh. Love the a7s otherwise.
Sony A7R II official user thread
In: Cameras
Posted
Not so fast professor.
"One thing I discovered about half way into the shoot was that the camera has a tendency to overheat when recording in 4K for extended periods. At first a yellow warning sign pops up on the screen, then a few minutes later the camera shuts itself down with a black warning saying it needs to cool down. This is not something I have experienced in normal shooting with either the Panasonic GH4 or Sony a7S. The last time this happened to me was when using a Canon 5D mkII in hot conditions. During the shoot it was warm weather but not scorching hot, so I expect it is the 4K recording that is creating the excess heat. I lost several shots while waiting for the camera to cool down."
http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/02/sony-a7r-ii-part-iii-5-axis-stabilisation-and-heat-issues-going-handheld-to-tell-the-story-of-a-london-busker/
My "destroyed" NX1 has been recording 4k all day and hasn't overheated once. Same S35 mode too basically.