Shield3

I posted a comment in a Dave Dougdale video and he actually took the time to create a new video to respond to my comment and show me what he was seeing.

What do you guys think?  Not sure if his shot was out of focus, was using a lens that wasn't sharp wide open, or had the sharpness/detail slider down to 0 or what.  I'm seeing very good detail in 4k on my 1dx II. 

Shawn

Canon makes (and I own and use ALL the time) a 24-105 STM F/3.5 - F/5.6.  It's cheap (you can find them around $350) is light, dead silent AF, and works beautifully with the 1dx II.

As a testament to how good this lens is - in Ohio today it warmed up to around 60 degrees - my daughter just learned to ride a bicycle on her own without training wheels.  I grabbed the 1dxII and this lens and shot it in 4k and it turned out wonderfully - just stopped down to F/5.6 and was able to zoom in/out without issues (IE no aperture flicker).

HIGHLY recommend the STM 24-105.  Did I mention it is a EF lens?  IE made for full frame?    A hidden gem...

4k, 8k, bah.  I was watching a Blu-ray rip of the 1983 Scarface tonight allowing my UHD to upscale the *gasp* 720p footage and thought it looked AMAZING for 33 years ago.  I guess content is always king of course. 

Just found this

https://***URL removed***/forums/thread/4090021

While I'm sure not many would use this due to the mount, the fixed F/3.5 video AF and the light robbing pelicle mirror for video, I am stunned it's overheating in 4k video mode.

Makes me nervous about the upcoming a9 or whatever they're going to call the "pro" FE mount body.

Speaking of the Sigma 18-35, it's the only "designed for APS-C" lens I am keeping in my kit; it does not vignette at all on the 1dx II in 1.4x 4k.  It's a stunner of a lens!

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Wow, that is for next to nothing!

It's the story of my life - good luck and bad - my 1dxII crapped itself after the latest firmware last night so it's headed back to Canon.  But yeah - that was the deal of the year.  The cards are Lexar 3400x 256GB...

I just picked up an XC-10 on ebay used for $1200.  The guy was very nice and threw in two 256GB CFast 2.0 cards and two CFAST readers.  Pretty much the best deal I've scored on ebay for years.  My 1dx pukes yesterday but I have this little camera to keep me happy for a couple of weeks.  I called the guy after the sale and asked why he was so generous - he said he bought a C500 and just didn't need the cards and figured I could use them.  There is hope for civilization yet folks. 

Digging the XC-10 so far.  Downloading the Canon XF software was a waste though unless you want to read EXIF info.  Camera is plenty sharp when you grade the C-LOG footage and looks really Super 16'ish.  It is what it is - a good light deep DOF camera with IS, ND, 4k, no time limit and C-Log.  It is not a replacement for the larger sensor Cx00 cameras, but should match nicely in post.  Loving it!

I called Canon and they are sending me a pre-paid UPS rush delivery label.  Definitely something went wrong during the upgrade.  From what I can gather:

I pulled down the latest Canon EOS Utility to do the upgrade (3.5).

Made sure the battery was at or near full charge (OEM LPE19).

Pulled the firmware down from the Canon USA website.  Did the initial upgrade through the USB3 and EOS Utility.  Powered the camera off and pulled the battery.  When it came back up, there is no live view feed in movie mode.  Live view works fine in stills mode, and from a stills perspective shooting with the EVF and live view everything is normal.

I do notice when I pull off the lens and toggle over to video mode (and hit the start/stop button after the "be sure a lens is attached) that I do not see the sensor directly.  The mirror is correctly up and out of the way, but now it's like it's in a mirror lock up mode.  IE I see the exact same thing when I use the EVF in stills mode and manually set the mirror lockup feature.

I did try upgrading the firmware again (2x more times) and nothing has changed.  No card, different lenses, different OEM batteries, all the same.  Even did the firmware directly from a CFAST card.

No idea what happened but everything has been perfect with 1.02.  Shrug.

I think there's a big issue - I am no stranger to firmware upgrades.  Fully charged OEM battery, cleared all camera settings (ALL not just custom).  Upgraded with the latest Canon Utility (3.5).  Upgrade went perfectly.  Shut the camera off, pulled the battery for around 5 seconds.  Camera came back up, but now in movie mode with any Canon lens (used the 24-105 and 35L) it is in "mirror lockup mode".  I shot a ton of video tonight so I have no idea what's going on here.  Cleared every setting and reset, and tried updating the firmware again, this time directly from the card.  Still no dice.

Anyone ever seen this happen?  Solid black screen in movie mode?  The mirror is locked up for sure.  Live view in stills mode is fine.

One more thing Jason (I sent you a PM) - keep in mind the value of time.  There are a TON of "armchair" videographers that will tell you how amazing a camera footage is based solely on specs or being the "latest and greatest". "OMG 10 bit just crushes 8 bit" or "camera A is so much better than camera B because it shoots 4k".  Most people do not need 4k right now - it's a pain to store and work with (and deliver).  Just because something is even 8 bit 4:2:0 doesn't make it crap - the a7s II shoots an amazing looking image.  There are a ton of people that fork out extra money for external recorders that I can barely see the difference with if at all.

At the end of the day ease of use, turnaround time, FOCUS ability, tracking are all very important.  Yes that XYZ camera looks great if you can just get the ND filter dialed in right, have a separate audio source, spend hours syncing these two in post, down scaling your footage and hours grading S-Log or something else in post, converting RAW, etc. God forbid the talent moves.  FOCUS always beats ultimate image quality for me.  Hell the "ancient" FS700 looked pretty damn good IMO in good light, especially the slow-mo.  Would I carry around that beast as well as the Odyssey 7Q+ just for the added IQ?  Not me.  Some would.  People like to critique low bitrates and 4:2:0 color space, yet ignore flip out screens and easy use.

I realize I'm rambling.  I still look at GH2 unhacked footage I shot back in 2012 and it looks fantastic.  The hack (IMO) was more hype than anything else.  Only hack I really saw a difference for was the 5d3 raw. 

There is no perfect camera.

Micro four thirds - harder to get shallow DOF, video AF lousy, poor low light due to the small sensor.

Sony - questionable repair services, tougher to grade colors, frustrating menus, too many bodies being released, poor battery life, fiddly controls, poor ergonomics

Nikon - poor video AF, lenses not optimized for video use, unaware of any cinema Nikon cameras.

Canon - boring, holds back features reserved for Cinema line, can't use EF-S lenses on full frame bodies, moire/aliasing/soft 1080p image on many models.

65k is NOTHING on a 1d series body.  Plenty of people knock Canon for being lackluster in the spec department; they're like the Toyota of the camera world.  Rock solid and proven reliable.  The 1dx/1dxII/1dc/1div etc are cameras that could be taken into the jungle, desert, war zone, etc.  Heavy and solid as a tank.  I had a 1dIV with 225k clicks and the shots looked like a brand new one.  Anything can fail though, but in the last 7 years of shooting Canon I have only had 1 SD slot failure in a 5d3 that Canon had back to me fixed for free in about 10 days.

My Sony a7r went in the shop twice and took a month each time to get back to me.  It and many other Sony bodies had overheating, compatibility issues with AF adapters (even Metabones) in which the camera would shut off.  Obviously you're not asking about Sony a7x series cameras, but my point is there's a world of difference between 65k on a 1d series and a non-pro body.

Basically it comes down to this:

You can pick up a used 1dx II for about 5-5.3k and it will give you a ton of stuff over the 1dc.  PDAF with face tracking is really the shit, and the 4k60 is so good that I find myself doing frame grabs and shooting 4k60 all the time.  Yes the codec is a pain in the ass, but it's 8 bit 4:2:2 and looks fantastic.

I personally would rather have a C100 Mark II over the 1dc for video - the 1080p60 and all the other features far outweigh the 4k24/25 (there is no 30/60 4k on the 1dc).  In fairness there is no 4k on the c100 either, but it is a 4k sensor downscaled in camera to amazing 1080p.  It's a workhorse and a delight to use.

My advice?  If you have shot with a full frame Canon with a grip you'll pretty much know what to expect with the 1dc.  Go rent a c100 Mark II and you will flat out love using it.  I tend to shoot Cinema/C-log and expose about 1 stop to the right; it grades lovely and easily in post.  The built in microphone is amazing too.  i set the button on the right handle to toggle AF on and off, and the "nipple" you can quickly adjust shutter, ISO, F/Stop, WB without even moving your eye from the EVF.

Lastly, the c100 IMO when exposed correctly (and shot in C-log) looks 99% as good as the 5d3 raw with about 10,000 times the reliability as assistance factor.  With the heavier compressed codec you do have to pay attention to exposure though, so there is less leeway for error.

I shoot my son's travel baseball games.  I'll set the c100 up in the outfield with a long lens on a tripod and just let it record (no 30 minute time limit either) - I can record for like 3-4 hours with a 128GB SD card and the larger battery.  Then I can shoot stills and get 1080p120 shots with the 1dx II and the footage matches up nicely.  Canon colors are great.

Either way you can't go wrong.  All of these will provide stunning results.  Absolute image quality goes to the C-Log 4k 1dc if you have a planned shot and time to set everything up.  Going to shoot an event or need to quickly work?  C100 and it's not even close.

I have owned multiple 1dx's and 1dc's.  The 1dc is exactly like the 1dx, plus adds:

4k 24p in MJPEG

S35 1080 mode (very good)

1080p60 (softer than 5d3 h264)

Canon Log with View assist

Now on the stills side, there were some updates the 1dx did get that the 1dc didn't.  Can't remember if it's more AF points @ F/8 or what, but there are subtle difference.

Other differences - the 1dc has to be upgraded at Canon while the 1dx can be user updated.  Also the 1dc counts as 20 CPS points/cinema.

It's a hell of a stills camera.  I prefer the new 1dxII with the PDAF, 4k30 and 4k60, the 4x faster CFast slot and the much deeper buffer.

Also someone said they would have it as the A cam with the C100 II as the B cam.  If you like a built in ND filter, central PDAF, smaller files,  XLR audio, EVF, better video ergonomics and a stunning 1080p image I'd go with the c100 mark II.  If you have time to setup and have other ways to knock back the light, have a way to pull focus, external audio source and can expose, then the 1dc is great.  c100 is just a hell of a lot better for ME.  Both will give you drop dead gorgous shots and the c100 will even allow for punch in while recording (and focus peaking, waveforms, etc.

11 hours ago, PeterGregg said:

In my research on the 5D4 I have come across the program Convert-V3 that will convert the MJPEG files to ProRes at original size at 422 or to half size (2K) at 444. The best time I can achieve on the Windows side so far is 3:1 with an RX-480. Reid says the Mac side on a 2012 iMac will do the time in 1:1 which sounds VERY appealing. He also says a new iMac does worse. I can attest to that, a spanking brand new iMac does not beat the 3:1 time ratio, and neither does a friends "trash can" Mac.

I am working with the owner of the software to try and bring the speed down hopefully to less than a 2:1 ratio if it can be done. I have a YT channel and have been making YT videos featuring this stuff and getting the typical "the DSLR/DSLM cameras are not video recorders" - or the obligatory "it works fine on my computer" comments. Having the camera in hand negates all those comments. The 5D4 file sizes are atrocious but the camera's Dual Pixel Focus is better than anything on any camcorder. I returned the 5D4, but now that I have a work-around for the weight of those files both in size and in my software I am considering buying it again. The GH5 also looks very appealing. Choices choices. I also have a G85 coming tomorrow and that camera looks to be promising too and have been working with the GX85 which is a snazzy little camera.

One more comment, the other part of the "secret" is if you have the habit of formatting your cards in the camera right before you use them (which I do) and accidentally change an eFat card to a FAT32 card (that would be any card smaller than a 256GB) and come home with a LOT of small 1 minute files, there is an answer for that too. In the software that comes with the camera (and you can download it online from Canon) they have buried a merge choice you can use to merge the files to one big file. It took 55 4GB 1 minute files and merged them into 4 files in less than 5 minute( lossless). The software is EOS Movie Utility (the latest version) and is free to camera owners and only works with Canon files. So with those 2 pieces of software the 5D4 (or your 1DX2) becomes manageable. I will be making more YT videos to show folks how to do this. My YT channel is low level so it isn't really for you guys in here.

I am not solely into videos. Using the 5D4 in 4K video mode with children for portrait work and pulling stills is proving to be an outrageously wonderful and amazing tool. The DP focus keeps the little ones in spot focus even with the 50L lens wide open. You can pull a TIFF file out of the video stream and get stunning results. It's a whole new ball game. I miss the camera already lol. The GH5 6K photo video mode is something I am looking forward too. If they ever get anything like DP focus in that camera it will certainly be indispensable

Peter

Hi Peter.  Keep in mind the 1dx II uses CFast and CF cards, so the rules are slightly different.

From the 1dx II manual:

"Card's file formats

Cards with 128 GB or lower capacity will be formatted in FAT32.  Cards with a capacity higher than 128 GB will be formatted in exFAT.  CFAST cards will be formatted in exFAT regardless of capacity.  When shooting a movie with a CF card larger than 128 GB or with a CFast card formatted in exFAT, the movie will be reorded in a single file even if it exceeds 4 GB. (The movie file will exceed 4 GB)."

I bought a 256 CFast 2.0 card and tested it last night - the 29:59 4k 60 movie file was 172GB in size.  So, with the 5dIV, just format your cards in Windows as exFAT and you won't have this problem anymore.

Shawn

On 10/17/2016 at 2:36 AM, gt3rs said:

Personally I’m not sure is worth the work to transcode because storage is getting cheaper and cheaper plus the advantage of MJPEG that you will be able to read it even in the future view that is a super simple codec.

On Windows PC most people use Avid codecs DNxHR and are basically equivalents of Prores. Here the spec: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/White_Paper/DNxHR-Codec-Bandwidth-Specifications

As you can see that the only one that will save you more space compared to MJPEG is DNxHR LB (low bandwidth) that at 4k DCI 8bit 4:2:2 @60p is 45 MB/s = 360 mbits (vs. 800 mbtis of MJPEG).  

There is no magic, if you want to keep the original quality you will end up with large files.

I output my master always in DNxHR HQ (SQ would probably be sufficient) and a second copy for web or consumer distribution in h.264 at 50 mbits.

I have pretty much come to this conclusion as well.  Just keeping the originals until I can edit them down.  Love keeping the EXIF intact for the video files, and I did a few transcodes per JCS's recommendation with FFMPEG and the command line (super easy) - every "version" of Prores came out slightly larger than the originals for 4k60!  DOH!

PP CC.  I hate to store it in a MXF container though; my MPC won't play the file back.  Is there an option to save as .mp4 or something?  I have a ton of storage; the box I'm working on has 16TB (6 - 4TB drives in a Raid 10).  Maybe I'll just keep them as is for now.

I have been pretty damn impressed with this 4k60 footage and the autofocus in live view.  I picked up a used 1dx II with ~31k shutter with the 64GB kit, reader and a genuine spare battery for about $5050.  This is the type of camera that I will keep around for several years; it does everything I need short of having an EVF.  The screen is very readable except for the very brightest of sunlight, then I throw a loop on it.  This camera coupled with the c100 mk2 means I pretty much have everything covered.  I picked up a 24-105 STM (F/3.5 - F/5.6) and that lens is pretty damn impressive for $349 brand new, and it covers the full frame.

I haven't been able to figure out how to output H264 (no matter what level I select) to 4:2:2.  I always end up with yuv420 in the target file, and I'm using 150 or larger megabytes/sec.

Is there a easy way to get ProRes on a PC that anyone is aware of?  Using Windows 7 64 with the latest version of Premiere (and VidCoder / Handbrake).

These 4k 59.94p files are huge and would like to store them in a smaller format.

Thanks Shawn

Got my 5d IV in today.  Video AF's amazingly at any apeture, the live view tracking is unreal (so is face tracking).  While the crop in 4k sucks, the 1080p is quite lovely.  You can't beat smooth AF for casual use.  Only tried it with the 24/1.4 II but my kids ran around the room and it tracked them all over the frame and held it (for video).  Same for a burst of stills.  Despite old huge MJPEG, the circa 2011 SD/CF slots and the 4k crop, it's turning out much better than I thought.  The touch screen interface speeds up everything.  Never thought I'd have "touch shutter" on a full frame Canon body.  My kids took their own pictures of each other this way tonight. 

(Still not selling my C100 II though)

I was one of the very first who bought the original a99; still my most regretted camera choice ever and I've owned many.  Video quiality was "VHS-like" and the lens was stuck in video mode in AF @ F/3.5 or whatever the next fastest stop the lens would offer.  I got ran out of town on DPreview for mentioning this; I was happy Chris came in later on and provided actual samples that backed up my claims.  Anyway I'll guarantee you stick an F/1.4 lens on this it'll only AF @ F/3.5 in video mode.  For fun I put tape on the excellent Zeiss F/2 / 24 holding it wide open and the AF still worked just fine.   I would avoid this like the plague - still same crappy menus and colors, and the worst mount EVER.

I make my money managing IT folks; I am a hobbyist photographer / videographer.

I bought a "mint" 1dc (my 2nd one) this week.  From the original owner.

Here was the deal - $3300, less than 28,000 clicks, included a 2nd OEM battery plus 3 32GB CF cards.  Original receipt from where he paid $14999 in 2014 for it.  I know they are $5k now new, but.

Anyway, I get the camera and it's mint EXCEPT for this damage to the rear LCD.  I call him and he states "Oh sorry, that just happened and I forgot to tell you.  I can knock a couple hundred bucks off it the price, or you can return it (we had worked out a 3 day "right to rescind" anyway, so I'm well within the time limit.

I know re-selling this as is down the line as I buy and sell a ton of cameras I will take a hit for the damage.  However, other than that, the camera works perfectly and the sensor is even spotless shooting at F/22!  I called Canon CPS and they told me they cannot quote anything over the phone and as a CPS member they can send me a prepaid shipping label to send it to them - the repair is optional based on the price.

The seller has offered to kick me $200 back.  I think this might be a $800 "repair" from Canon since I'm sure because the "C" badge is involved they will charge more.

I told the seller I was just going to return it, but considering how much I love the C-log look and the 1.3x crop in 4k, I am torn.  Another option would be to pay around $5400 to get the 1dx Mark II and get the sweet DPAF and 4k 60 (and 120FPS 1080) as well as the improved dynamic range.

What do you guys think?

Shawn

6 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

XC15 with canon log but not log2 or 3, xlr input and waveform now.

 

 

If I see ONE MORE Canon marketing piece mention you can grab 8MP stills from 4k my head is going to explode.  Yeah no shit - that can be done in post with any 4k camera.  It's just a freaking JPG (not raw)...Sigh.

9 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

Actually...If I bought it new then it would be non refundable. Used doesn't state that its non refundable...

For the record....I love to stick it to the man. But I haven't done that here. I followed every rule and did literally nothing wrong here. According to their own return policy, by me simply being dissatisfied (price drop) is all that is needed for a valid refund. That is all. I didn't loose $3000. More like $1,000 in the used market. Thats still pretty sucky! Hence my dissatisfaction. 

Actually this shows SPECIFICALLY your "hit" - $550 bucks.  Used was $5k a month ago, now $4450.  Once you factor in the $50 or so shipping, it was a $500 "hit" - could you rent one for a month and take out of the country for $500?  No.  Did you make more than $500 using it for the month?

I have said my piece.

4 hours ago, iamoui said:

@Shield3 I see nothing wrong with what @DaveAltizer did. Adorama has a return policy. He used that return policy. He wasn't being deceptive or trying to "stick it to the man". Just because you feel guilty returning a camera after 75 clicks doesn't mean everyone else would. And what's with the "typical democrat" comment? There's nothing I can't stand more than ignorant political polarization. There's this thing called "nuance". I don't think @Andrew Oliver was saying it's ok because they are a huge company, rather a huge company has a return policy that obviously works for them otherwise they either wouldn't be a huge company anymore (if people were taking advantage of their return policy and they were losing money) or they wouldn't have that return policy. This is the free market at work. I thought you "typical Republicans" love free market capitalism.

Part of his argument on why it was ok was the fact that Adorama is a "huge company".  That should have 0 bearing and you know it.

6 hours ago, Damphousse said:

That's legit.  I just price match rather than return.  I've done that with B&H.  I don't know how Adorama is about price matching.

It's BS for a retailer to expect you to take a $3000/month depreciation.

Yeah.  With no C badge you can kiss log goodbye.  Lord knows what other crippling will go on.

Well let's see - had he bought a NEW one I certainly could see that - but he bought a used one for $5k a month ago.

It's not a $3k hit by any stretch, and B&H (and Adorama) both show their used 1dc's as "unreturnable".  Unless there are $2k used 1dc's out there, I highly doubt he took a 3k hit.  But, clearly none of you work on the business sales side of things - what did Adorama do wrong here?  They sold him a product; he used it for professionally and mentioned several times how much he loved it.  We all make gambles buying used gear as far as price.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.  But, we all have our own set of principles.  Carry on...

6 hours ago, Andrew Oliver said:

I decided to signup and become a member just so i can personally combat this silliness.  You're actually suggesting that he feel bad because he bought a camera, saw it go down by 3k, and decided to take advantage of a return policy that a huge company has in place in order to make the most money for themsevles?  Do you think Adorama has that return policy because they're a bunch of sweethearts, or because it ultimately improves their bottom line and gets more people to impulse buy?  

Now that i've got that out of the way, i just bought the 1dc.  Anyone have any thoughts on C-Log vs no C-Log shooting?  To my eye, i think i agree with Abraham Joffe, that not using C-Log and just dialing down the contrast achieves the best look.   Admittedly, i'm a novice shooter.  

So it's ok because they're a huge company?  You sound like a typical Democrat.

To reiterate - they didn't see any usage because he only took video, which doesn't register on the shutter count.

B.  No $5k hit; he bought used.

C.  Adorama sold him a good working camera that he took out of the country twice and got paid to use for free.

If this is fine by you to "stick it to the man" then that's fine.  I just don't do things like this, big company or small.

1 minute ago, DaveAltizer said:

Sorry I'm a dick 

I am too, just in different ways.  More of an asshole than a dick.  You are a dick though for sure. 

5 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

Yes. Adorama has a no questions asked 30 day return policy. As long as it's in good condition and all the pieces are still there 

We must live on different planets Dave - I've bought and returned $1000 used cameras from B&H after using them for maybe 75 clicks and felt extremely guilty about returning them.  Not take a $5k camera on two international trips and then openly discuss returning it to Adorama on a popular website.

Clearly doing paid work and then returning the gear used is a dick move IMO, but then to mention the details in a public forum is even worse.  But what do I know.