tomekk

Pros will tell you that there are no cheap options for professional grade HDR editing. The cheapest pro option likely being EIZO CG3145 for ca. 20-30k$ USD?

However, some HDR TVs are used on a budget and you can use LUT for calibration.... LG C8 series OLED 4K or Samsung QLED 4/8K (although not sure about using LUT in these) seem to be good. Read through the topics on different forums:

For example: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?173930-State-of-the-GRADING-monitor-2019

https://liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/lg-c8-experience.12401/

3 hours ago, Dimitris Stasinos said:

Almost every company i spoke to takes full responsibility of server maintenance. Even on the cheapest plan the company is committed to change a faulty drive/power supply (these are the most common problems) in 3 hours. And this is the most self-evident thing to do as you are not the owner of the server, you are just renting it so you are not responsible for it's proper function. 

Many of these companies are offering free basic support services as well, like setting up the software for remote access and creating direct links for your data. 

Overall it's much simpler these days than it was in the past. Better & cheaper servers, simpler & more effective software plus better support.

4

If it is a dedicated server which you do not own then read the small print. Server maintenance can mean a lot of things. It is highly suspicious their SLA is 3hrs to replace anything in a server and server support could be really basic (almost nothing) for +-50/month. 

For example, power supply change / faulty drive change is +- 30mins job if you take into account reading a ticket, finding a part, getting to a server, replacing the part, logging it, dealing with the faulty one and that is if everything goes smoothly. 

Add to this time which takes to notice a faulty component, logging it in, doing checks and then preparing a ticket for the DC tech to actually replace it. At this point, you might be angry but a faulty drive/PS is usually not a super high priority task  (after all the system is still live!) so they might be busy with other more important tasks...

It is most likely like cars MPG given by manufacturers on new cars. 

I talked about a dedicated server that you own not a rented one so my bad for not being clear on that. 

Yeah, It is much cheaper and easier these days, but still, do not expect miracles for nothing. Usually, there is a reason for a certain price. Proft margins are really small in this field so you get what you pay for most of the time but that does not mean it is going to be bad. I am pretty sure you can still get a good deal for cheap as long as you are not planning on building an alternative to Vimeo ;). 

20 hours ago, andrgl said:

I'd take this a step further an investigate how competitive $$$ a dedicated server is versus using cloud storage from the big 3: Amazon S3, Azure Blob and Google Cloud Storage.

Managing a dedicated machine can become a PITA if you're responsible for security patches and updating software.

 

I do have some personal experience with all of this. Am currently using Google for my hosting...

and, back in the old days, 2006-2010, I used to run a website that streamed videos. This was before Amazon AWS was mature enough to use, so I was running my "CDN" on dedicated linux servers. It was expensive, even with aggressive targeted advertising. It took a few years to simply break even every month. Good learning experience: bandwidth is expensive, videos are large files and visitors always expected things for free. 

1

Dedicated server will be more expensive when you run into problems you cannot solve. 

I monitor and fix servers for corporations and you get these problems: hardware failures or O/S problems or you cannot access your server remotely to fix it (requires a visit to a DC if you want to do it cheaply, rate for remote hands fix is over 100gbp/hr and you have to buy and ship the part to the DC if it is a hardware problem. Check the cost of the parts for the dedicated server you are buying.

O/S troubleshooting if something stops working, well, if you can fix it yourself then that is fine, some problems are easy to fix but if you cannot fix it then you have to pay someone or learn how to fix it. If you do not mind having your server down for long periods of time and spending days/weeks learning how to fix an issue then fine.

I am not even mentioning standard things like patching stuff that messes things up occasionally and application troubleshooting. 

If it is just for sharing videos for micro public/friends it might work but forget the exposure you get by using big established sites. 

With cloud storage you just do not care about those things.

Just to give you a picture. There is a DC team of several people fixing issues and separate teams handling issues that can be fixed remotely in the background all the time 24/7/365.

General overview:

dedicated server = most control = most problems.

VM = A lot of control and at least you do not have to worry about the Layer 1 (hardware). 

Cloud = least control.

Ideally to compete with Vimeo you build your own network with dedicated servers, your own VMs in your own cloud and on top of it you build a web application to access it from the Internet by people 

Just an idea, would it not be possible to estimate it by shooting in continuous mode, waiting for the buffer to fill up and then once it slows down estimate how long it takes to move those files from the buffer to the card?

Provided you have fast enough SD card which is not going to be a bottleneck you would be able to estimate the speed of the controller.

===========

Wikipedia:

UHS-II

Specified in version 4.0, further raises the data transfer rate to a theoretical maximum of 156 MB/s (full duplex) or 312 MB/s (half duplex) using an additional row of pins[33][34] (a total of 17 pins for full-size and 16 pins for micro-size cards).[29]

===========

312MB/s half duplex is the theoretical limit which is not bad...knowing Canon though :/...

If anything, I think, ML will be the only thing keeping me from selling all my canon gear, sigh

Could someone point me out to how far Canon is behind Sony in terms of investment in Image sensors? I have heard the rumour about the $9b investment Sony is doing, what about Canon? I cannot find anything on their website or anywhere else in terms of how they are investing in their sensors... are they upgrading their factories at all? Has anyone heard anything?

I know about the 120MP sensors, 200mmx200mm sensor, ultra low light sensor but it all seems like extracting the last potential from their current technology... what after that?

18 hours ago, Kisaha said:

The world is an unequal place!

2015 numbers.

0 - 25.000euros   88.3%

25 - 42.000euros   8.4%

< 42.000euros        3.4%, but 7/10 have their own house/apartment(/home) and 32.8% owns a secondary property (highest percentage in Europe).

Yes it is. It is even funnier when you realise you could be pulling in 150k USD/year and still living in a shoebox apartment like in London... 

It is not about how much you earn but what you can buy for it, IMHO. 

30 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

@tomekk 12888 more shades of tonality over 12 bit is a hell of a lot of data. Whether most of that data is noise or not is irrelevant. The more tonality you have in post the better. Its the equivalent of 12 bit vs 14 bit raw photos

 

It is a little bit confusing, but what ML does is not equivalent of 12 bit vs 14 bit raw photos. Shades are mapped out differently in "true" 12 bit vs 14 bit raw photos. ML just truncates bottom bits and does not change values in higher stops, AFAIK. 

Anyway, a theory is just a theory. Check in real life. If you see the difference in grading, that is great, but it would be nice to see those clips/dngs too. 

58 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

This is from the developer of raw2cdng. Its a visual of the difference between bit depths etc. the 2 bits of noise are very useful for generating noise profiles

It is a very good visualisation of how much data difference in total there is, but if I understand it correctly, ML is just cutting out the darkest blacks which contain mostly noise and does not re-distribute shades in higher stops of light. 

If you can use noise bits to your advantage, of course, use 14 bits. 

@kidzrevil You are right, but they cut out bits that contain mainly noise, where there are no visible shades anyway.

6 hours ago, kye said:

Where/how do you see the data in those 2-4bits?  I mean, is it highlights, shadows, saturation, 'thickness' of image.. ??  I compared bit depths and couldn't see any difference, but I also don't know where to look

Current consensus is that there is a difference between 10 bit and 12/14, but not so much between 12bits and 14 bits. The last 2 bits are mainly noise, but I cannot find the exact quote from a1ex right now (main ML developer).

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/21004-12-or-10-bit-raw-magic-lantern/?page=3#comment-168058 - 10 bit vs 14bit after lifting shadows

@kidzrevil - I would love to see a difference between 12 and 14 bits. Could you post your findings in this thread by sharing a short clip that shows the difference and, if possible, a few DNGs?

5 hours ago, kye said:

Historically we will plateau when IQ becomes close to the limits of our perception, HOWEVER we are nowhere near these limits yet.

Think 4k is enough because movie theatres were fine in 2K?  What about VR capture - if your field of view is 120 degrees (just to pick a nice number) then that means you need 6k to spread  2K over your entire vision, but that's not what we're talking about here - we're talking about the angle of view of a TV - which is something more like 45degrees, which means you need 8 * 2K horizontal, just to properly render sitting in a room watching a 2K TV.  What about VR simulation of a 4K TV?  Forgetaboutit!!

But why just talk about resolution - let's talk about pixel depth..  what is the DR of the human eye?  When they get "retina DR" devices, what will the bit depth of that video signal look like across that amount of dynamic range?  I'm thinking that 10-bit isn't going to cut it at that point.

And we're only talking 2D here....  what happens when we want 3D environments to be simulated from AI processed video feeds?  Just mount a grid of cameras in the ceiling perhaps 12 inches apart and feed all those to an AI that creates a 3D VR environment and UH OH!  The AI doesn't have enough information to go by and so the virtual attendees of the latest Hollywood whatever event can't see the expressions on the stars faces (or tell the difference between Elijah Wood and Daniel Radcliffe!) so we need to up the resolution.  Now deaf people can't lip read, up it again.

Now the FBI gets interested and decides that the tech is now ready for AI facial microexpression monitoring at all airports and other critical locations - more resolution needed!

To many of you this will sound like science fiction, but you will be proven wrong.  if you want evidence of this - pick up your smartphone and start talking to your virtual assistant, and then cast your mind back 35 years when many people still had Black and White Television.

This is an array of audio microphones with computer processing...  8 years ago.

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/super-microphone-picks-out-single-voice-in-a-crowded-stadium/

Good points. That's why I'd rather focus on getting great today with today's tech. What's the point of having my movies future proofed if they suck and I'm forgotten tomorrow? 

(Although, I think,  good 4k 60fps raw with good DR is my minimum for future proofing before VR takes off ;)).

On 09/03/2018 at 1:55 PM, Arikhan said:

The most valuable and objective appreciation of your visual work is the status of your bank account. Anything else is a matter of personal and subjective perception. Everyone makes his own luck.

 

Not everyone wants to make porn "movies" ;). 

Well, it seems, we have learned that there is a difference, and it is not a slight one but a noticeable one ;).

hehe, yeah I know. I just thought I would add this small piece of information for the sake of completeness :). 

In the video, he actually said that 12 bit colour bit depth gave them more pleasing skin tones and more latitude. He never used the word "slightly". 

18 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Depends on how they're distributed and quantization noise.

I do remember someone (Scorsese and Prieto?) compared 2k 12bit and downscaled 4k 10bit raw on the C500 and preferred the former ever so slightly, but they found the difference to be extremely subtle even when projected at the world's best facilities. I doubt I'd notice it.

12 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

https://nofilmschool.com/2014/01/dp-rodrigo-prieto-reveals-why-color-is-king-in-canon-c500-promo

If it is worth to sacrifice 4k for 12 bit doesn't it mean that it is actually quite a big difference?

18 hours ago, hmcindie said:

I don't know if there is a difference in image quality anyways. I think the 12-bit and 10-bit modes are very close. I didn't do an exact study but just shooting randomly here and there I noticed no differences. 

 

In grading? In theory, 10 bits hold 1024 tones and 12 bit 4096 tones so you should be able to push 12-bit image more in post.

Hi guys,

Could someone tell me how 1080p ML RAW looks compared to 4K footage from other well-known cameras on 1) 4k TV (55"+) 2) 4k computer screen.

I don't want to buy anything lower quality than my latest Panasonic plasma but want my footage to be future proof too, especially for the big screen TVs.

I would assume, due to viewing distance from the TV, 1080p ML RAW should look really close to a good 4K camera but probably not as good compared on 4k computer monitors. Is it true?

On 21/09/2017 at 4:35 PM, Andrew Reid said:

The teardown video -

You can't look at a sensor like that and tell what the bit depth is. Where is his info coming from? Actual LG white paper for the camera module? Or advertising department?

Most sensors are 12bit or 14bit by the way

I don't even think 8bit sensors exist in phones. They are all 12bit. Correct me if I'm wrong (with proof!)

It's the processing that determines the final bit-depth to be either 8bit or 10bit.

When I bypass that and shoot raw on my S8+, the files are not 8bit raw.

The proof will be in the pudding... how does the image look from the phone, and so on.

1

Sony's Exmor RS sensors are limited to 10 bits and have been for quite some time, AFAIR. According to Wikipedia this sensor is used in LG V30 http://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor1/img/products/ProductBrief_IMX351_20171109.pdf

LG is not giving us all the features the sensor is capable of (30fps - full res, 60fps - 4k2k, 240fps - FHD...), but check out video output section: RAW10/8, COMP 8. The output is limited to 10 bit RAW (likely due to the A/D converter being 10 bit so it would be a hardware limitation). I hope they will put higher bit depth A/D converters in the future, though!

LG-Cine LOG is probably computed from 10 bit raw output and this is as close as we can get to raw... officially. Keep in mind conversion is done by the phone. 

Another interesting thing is SME-HDR but all Sony says about it is: "The technology sets two different exposure conditions during shooting and seamlessly performs appropriate image processing to generate optimal images with a wide dynamic range.  https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201208/12-107E/. This was introduced back in 2014.  Interestingly, hasn't been turned on in LG V30? This would be done by the Sony's chip itself.

I like HDR, I hope TVs will be good enough to take full advantage of rec 2020 by the time my Panasonic plasma dies ;). 

hehe, the ultimate pixel peepers' thread. You guys are crazy ! So to see a difference you have to actually stop moving image, take one frame out, zoom said frame to 400% and on top of it draw an arrow pointing towards the difference because it's hardly to see it otherwise. It's a great exercise and I appreciate your findings but do you think this difference is going to make you more money or make you stand out from others? In my opinion thanks to your test I learned a valuable lesson. For my clients, I'm happy to use IPB and save space.

If above is true and If features between A7RII and A99II are similar, than this doesn't show Sony in a good light. After all, this would mean they didn't use extra space to dissipate heat efficiently.

@jonpais 

smaller - there is a standard size for hard drives, we're talking 3.5 inch drives here. They're not smaller. They pack more platters per drive and that's why air filled drives usually top out at 6TB like ultrastar 7k6000. If you don't need more TBs you don't have to go helium.

lighter, cooler, quieter, more energy efficient - I know marketing is there for a reason (hey canon) ;). These points are applicable more to data centres where they have thousands of these and it all adds up. If this is important to you, I'm not going to argue. I've got a few hard drives and couldn't care less.

less expensive - did you check prices? I've just quickly checked HGST 6TB ultrastar vs HGST 6TB helium. Guess what's more expensive. 

In sum, nothing from this marketing talk matters to me, but if it's good enough for you or others, by all means, buy it.