Bruno

https://vimeo.com/74887302
 

Most films you see in the theater these days were shot in raw...

I tried that as well on my 7D, but forgot to try it on the 5D Mark III where some say it covers full frame at 35mm despite being a APS-C lens.
 
It seemed great on 7D, took a few shots with it, will try and get more time with one.
 
I'm in a dilemma over which one to get. If it wasn't for me using full frame so much, 18-35mm on GH3 with Speed Booster would be a no brainer.

I think we have plenty of out of focus short films already, shot on 5D full frame cameras.
IMO APS-C/Super 35 is the sweet spot, east to get shallow DOF shots and easy to keep things in focus.
Even though full frame cameras can be used with amazing results, most people abuse them, and it gets quite hard to shoot wide open with a full frame camera.

16mm sized sensor is great for documentary or one man shoots, as it's much easier to keep things in focus, and yet it can also look cinematic.
It's definitely a useful format that should be supported by modern cameras.
There's also loads of high quality 16mm glass available, calling it a hipster trend is shortsighted to say the least. :)

"This is all you have to say about this camera" and yet you only mention the prores shooting mode of a raw shooting camera, aren't you kind of missing the point?
You also keep basing its performance on the original BMCC camera, even though it's a different sensor.

So many of us are absolutely obsessed with talking about VL and PB on this forum.
 
Its as though people forget how may other filmmakers are out there actually making amazing films, all accessible within a few mouse clicks or fingertip touches. 
 
The world is bigger than you think. 

Um, i came from photography too. That's one of the reasons i was screaming for raw years ago. My point was that telling a story with a still image, is very different than tell a narrative with a motion picture.  Just looking at Reverie, you wouldn't say any of the frames are necessarily cheesy, but when you put them together the effect is nauseating.
 
Working with actors, getting emotion from a scene, these things matter. I'm not sure VL got a lot of experience with that shooting from his helicopter.

Sure, nothing against that, the more diversified the better.

People mentioned Reverie though, which as a marketing gimmick might work and I'm sure it sold a whole lot of cameras, but I'd rather they stop doing pieces like that. As a short film it's quite lame and as a marketing piece it's kind of questionable, a proper commercial would at least be more honest, regardless of the budget, since you'd know it's a commercial made with the intention of selling cameras.

That's why I say that when people ask for something like Reverie for camera X they're inadvertently asking to be fooled.

For any film or commercial yeah, for a camera test? Not really, all these things will disguise what the camera is or is not capable of.
Any kind of stabilization rig will hide rolling shutter artifacts, any kind of lighting might compensate for lack of dynamic range.

Watching pretty images is one thing, judging a camera's capabilities is another thing. Personally I'd rather see the footage as raw as possible, and from that I can tell exactly how much good lighting and grip can improve it. When I see a well shot and graded image, it's harder to tell how much money and time was spent making it look like that, and it could very well be beyond my budget, even if I can afford the camera alone.

And sensor size (for S16mm lenses) and compressed raw. Two very important features!

I understand people being upset with the delays, but saying the camera can't do what it says in the box is another thing, that would be quite serious, and most would probably just get a refund, I don't see them trying to sneak that one without a big explanation.

SD cards speed is not a problem with 1080p 2:1 compressed raw.
They'd need roughly 50mbps, latest toshiba cards can do 240!

According to Grant's e-mail the Pocket cameras are shipping, surely you could wait a couple days for the first reviews before assuming it can't do what's on the specs list. Could even save the non believers some embarrassment.

I think the price was too close to the 4K camera...
 
The 4k camera offers not only increased resolution, but also a s35 sensor size (very welcome) and compressed raw (much more manageable files), two serious downsides to the original camera, so I guess that with price tags of $3k vs $4k, the "old" camera would not seem that appealing anymore. The new price tag separates it into a different segment and now the 3 different models all have their own place in the market. Definitely $2k is a great price, even $2500 would have been great!
 
For owners bitching about the price drop, they need to know this is what happens, it's how it goes! People keep complaining that camera makers are not giving them all they could, keeping features out and inflating prices with tiny updates, but when someone has the balls to make a price cut like this and actually offer the technology as cheap as they possibly can, then their own personal interests come up and they quickly point the finger and feel ripped off. It's evolution, deal with it!
 
I also don't think this affects the Pocket camera, I never saw them as competing products, if anything, the pocket camera is still a better choice, as the sensor size matches the mount better, you can use 16mm glass, you get an active mount and you get compressed raw.
 
Now they just need to add compressed raw to the BMCC.
(Audio levels on ALL camera models would be great too, but it seems to be asking for too much, they'll probably release a 6k camera for $500 before that happens :)  )

If they're bought it doesn't mean it's the end of BMD, and they've been doing just fine even before they had cameras on their product line-up, so I don't see why they'd go broke just like that, especially when offering products in such high demand.
 
Also, even if they did, it's not like all existing cameras would suddenly stop working, is it? How many thousands of films have been shot on long discontinued film cameras?

I think the price was too close to the 4K camera...
 
The 4k camera offers not only increased resolution, but also a s35 sensor size (very welcome) and compressed raw (much more manageable files), two serious downsides to the original camera, so I guess that with price tags of $3k vs $4k, the "old" camera would not seem that appealing anymore. The new price tag separates it into a different segment and now the 3 different models all have their own place in the market. Definitely $2k is a great price, even $2500 would have been great!
 
For owners bitching about the price drop, they need to know this is what happens, it's how it goes! People keep complaining that camera makers are not giving them all they could, keeping features out and inflating prices with tiny updates, but when someone has the balls to make a price cut like this and actually offer the technology as cheap as they possibly can, then their own personal interests come up and they quickly point the finger and feel ripped off. It's evolution, deal with it!
 
I also don't think this affects the Pocket camera, I never saw them as competing products, if anything, the pocket camera is still a better choice, as the sensor size matches the mount better, you can use 16mm glass, you get an active mount and you get compressed raw.
 
Now they just need to add compressed raw to the BMCC.
(Audio levels on ALL camera models would be great too, but it seems to be asking for too much, they'll probably release a 6k camera for $500 before that happens :)  )

I think the price was too close to the 4K camera...
 
The 4k camera offers not only increased resolution, but also a s35 sensor size (very welcome) and compressed raw (much more manageable files), two serious downsides to the original camera, so I guess that with price tags of $3k vs $4k, the "old" camera would not seem that appealing anymore. The new price tag separates it into a different segment and now the 3 different models all have their own place in the market. Definitely $2k is a great price, even $2500 would have been great!
 
For owners bitching about the price drop, they need to know this is what happens, it's how it goes! People keep complaining that camera makers are not giving them all they could, keeping features out and inflating prices with tiny updates, but when someone has the balls to make a price cut like this and actually offer the technology as cheap as they possibly can, then their own personal interests come up and they quickly point the finger and feel ripped off. It's evolution, deal with it!
 
I also don't think this affects the Pocket camera, I never saw them as competing products, if anything, the pocket camera is still a better choice, as the sensor size matches the mount better, you can use 16mm glass, you get an active mount and you get compressed raw.
 
Now they just need to add compressed raw to the BMCC.
(Audio levels on ALL camera models would be great too, but it seems to be asking for too much, they'll probably release a 6k camera for $500 before that happens :)  )

I think the price was too close to the 4K camera...
 
The 4k camera offers not only increased resolution, but also a s35 sensor size (very welcome) and compressed raw (much more manageable files), two serious downsides to the original camera, so I guess that with price tags of $3k vs $4k, the "old" camera would not seem that appealing anymore. The new price tag separates it into a different segment and now the 3 different models all have their own place in the market. Definitely $2k is a great price, even $2500 would have been great!
 
For owners bitching about the price drop, they need to know this is what happens, it's how it goes! People keep complaining that camera makers are not giving them all they could, keeping features out and inflating prices with tiny updates, but when someone has the balls to make a price cut like this and actually offer the technology as cheap as they possibly can, then their own personal interests come up and they quickly point the finger and feel ripped off. It's evolution, deal with it!
 
I also don't think this affects the Pocket camera, I never saw them as competing products, if anything, the pocket camera is still a better choice, as the sensor size matches the mount better, you can use 16mm glass, you get an active mount and you get compressed raw.
 
Now they just need to add compressed raw to the BMCC.
(Audio levels on ALL camera models would be great too, but it seems to be asking for too much, they'll probably release a 6k camera for $500 before that happens :)  )

And another one I had posted in the new Mac Pro thread:
 
http://www.magma.com/expressbox-3t

The thing Is not any company can pull it off like Apple does, they've gotten products manufactured and delivered at stores that no one had even imagined they were working on, let alone produced and delivered.

Anyway, even without the secrecy and rumors running around, no one would be pointing them the finger if they hadn't made an announcement.

[quote name="peederj" post="39391" timestamp="1374888939"The Heroic Pro Cinematographer that we're supposed to emulate saying the sensor on the new 4K camera sucks is devastating publicity.
 [/quote]

If a $4k super 35 global shutter 4k compressed raw/prores camera sucks because it only does 12 stops, I wish more cameras would suck!

[quote name="peederj" post="39391" timestamp="1374888939"The Heroic Pro Cinematographer that we're supposed to emulate saying the sensor on the new 4K camera sucks is devastating publicity.
 [/quote]

If a $4k super 35 global shutter 4k compressed raw/prores camera sucks because it only does 12 stops, I wish more cameras would suck!

If you don't like the RX100 mark II you can always get an RX100 mark I with a wooden handle for $2k.
http://www.hasselblad-stellar.com
 
It's the redefinition of ridiculous...

This isn't true. This forum has banned and censored people as well, because of disagreement with the prevalent thoughts / beliefs here.
 
It's playground antics by two opposing sides who are predominantly gear fanatics rather than film-makers. At least that's what i see. I do like this forum though and there are plenty of good posts amongst the silly ego driven fights. This is a tech forum, not a forum about filmmaking, tech people fight over stats and numbers. How many fights here have been about quality of work? It's all about who's shooting what, which camera is better yada yada, which camera company is screwing over who and so on, and some of that is productive sometimes, but 'unbiased', no way! 

What you're describing here is not the indie filmmaking community, it's a camera-gear-lust driven movement that has very little to do with filmmaking at all.
 
Honestly, I don't think those video-blog-stars have much of an effect on indie filmmaking at all (unless you consider lame camera tests edited to copyrighted music with accompanying fancy titles "indie filmmaking"), if anything they have an effect on gear heads, but I don't see any serious filmmaker pointing them as their great influences anytime soon. Those indie filmmakers might even know who they are and may have seen a video or two when researching a camera, but most of these bloggers have little to offer (or at least have offered very little so far) when it comes to proper filmmaking advice on how to tell a good story and make a relevant film.
 
Let's be honest here for once, regardless of how much we love the tech and wish for the dream camera to come along at a price we can afford, the choice of a camera for a narrative film is probably the least important element of its making, and as long as these people keep acting like it's the the only important factor, they will never represent "the indie filmmaking community".

What you're describing here is not the indie filmmaking community, it's a camera-gear-lust driven movement that has very little to do with filmmaking at all.
 
Honestly, I don't think those video-blog-stars have much of an effect on indie filmmaking at all (unless you consider lame camera tests edited to copyrighted music with accompanying fancy titles "indie filmmaking"), if anything they have an effect on gear heads, but I don't see any serious filmmaker pointing them as their great influences anytime soon. Those indie filmmakers might even know who they are and may have seen a video or two when researching a camera, but most of these bloggers have little to offer (or at least have offered very little so far) when it comes to proper filmmaking advice on how to tell a good story and make a relevant film.
 
Let's be honest here for once, regardless of how much we love the tech and wish for the dream camera to come along at a price we can afford, the choice of a camera for a narrative film is probably the least important element of its making, and as long as these people keep acting like it's the the only important factor, they will never represent "the indie filmmaking community".