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Jimmy

Who will break the interenal 10 bit hybrid barrier?

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I could be wrong here, but my understanding is that this is possible because there is 'no' compression going on. Not to mention they are dealing with a larger body and I assume a larger heat sink. My feeble understanding of this topic is that, at this point, getting full frame 4k 10bit out of a small mirrorless dslr body is faaaar more difficult than getting full frame HD raw out of a large mirror dslr body. I'm not suggesting that the 8bit/10bit won't be used as a barrier between prosumer and pro products, because it probably will. But I don't think Sony could deliver 4K 10bit in that body even if they wanted to. 

What's stopping them from making a bigger body, ala the GH4 and NX1? Besides losing what little size advantage FF mirrorless has over DSLRs?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

The camera reads 14/12 bits pixels from the camera which is then send through the debayer and turned into 8bit 4:2:2 yuv. If you can't have 10bit it's because of the image processor, not because of the speed of the readout.

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The camera reads 14/12 bits pixels from the camera which is then send through the debayer and turned into 8bit 4:2:2 yuv. If you can't have 10bit it's because of the image processor, not because of the speed of the readout.

Panasonic can do it but Sony can't? Because...?

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Panasonic can do it but Sony can't? Because...?

Because they dont want to.

Does Panasonic have a full frame sensor I don't know about? 

I think there are physics barriers that the magicians at Sony haven't yet figured out how to cross. 

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Does Panasonic have a full frame sensor I don't know about? 

I think there are physics barriers that the magicians at Sony haven't yet figured out how to cross. 

Where are you reading "full frame" in the title "who will break the internal 10-bit hybrid barrier"? Or are you demonstrating your impressive ability to remember sensor sizes? 

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8bit vs 10bit is an extremely minimal difference in real world shooting, 10bit still bands greatly.

I believe companies are sticking with 8bit due to this reason, because the trade off in quality is far less visible than the trade off in file sizes, it's a great compression algorithm. 

Correct.

10 bit is a huge, huge leap... If the GH4 is still banding, then they must have screwed up their implementation or someone screwed up their tests.

10bit + a proper log is a very, very good balance of image quality and file size/workflow.

It's not a huge huge leap.

1D C 8bit vs BM Pocket Camera 10bit... guess which looks better.

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Correct.

It's not a huge huge leap.

1D C 8bit vs BM Pocket Camera 10bit... guess which looks better.

I'd take the Pocket camera all day. There's no "correct" in aesthetics, Andrew. Only preference. And some of us prefer the look of larger bit depth. Why are you trying so hard to tell us we're wrong?

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Because you're wrong!

About liking 10-bit footage? How exactly does that work? "You know that thing you like? Well, you don't. Stop it!" 

And again, it's so funny that you cry out for LOG profiles meant to imitate higher bit depth and write articles about a 4:2:2 camera's color superiority over a 4:2:0 one, then come out and argue tooth and nail that higher bit and color depth is bunk. 

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Because it isn't the 10bit you're liking.

For a start your screen is 8bit.

Secondly a typical 10bit camera like the Blackmagic Pocket has a wide dynamic range - you liking that and also the high data rate of ProRes meaning fine grain and very little compression so less colour data is lost. Also you are liking the look of an i-frame codec rather than long GOP and 422 over 420.

All make a difference to the image.

The 1D C proves that you can get amazing amounts of colour information out of a 8bit file.

Hell, 42MP A7R II JPEGs prove this

10bit is massively overrated because people blame 8bit for stuff that is really the fault of heavy compression (banding) and sensor related shortcomings in DSLRs.

If a line-skipping DSLR went 10bit tomorrow in a firmware update you would notice no difference.

And as for grading, I have tried grading 8bit and 10bit from the same camera and you have to pixel peep ridiculously hard to see a difference. Raw makes all the difference for grading, it is a different ballgame. 10bit is not.

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Because it isn't the 10bit you're liking.

I notice a large difference in quality between the GH4's 8-bit and 10-bit output, even on my 8-bit monitor. Maybe nail down my opinion before you attempt to disprove it. ;)
 

 

The 1D C proves that you can get amazing amounts of colour information out of a 8bit file.

I never said the 1DC didn't have a good look in terms of color. But you're forcing everyone to agree with your opinion (and it is an opinion, despite how loud and forcefully you club us with it). If you were showing us carefully shot comparisons with a macbeth/OneShot chart and a vectorscope to demonstrate an actual technical difference or lack thereof, I'd be more willing to see it your way.
 

Hell, 42MP A7R II JPEGs prove this

There's a big difference between 8-bit JPEG processing and 8-bit video processing. Except in the 1DC's case, which is why part of why it has such a great image.
 

10bit is massively overrated because people blame 8bit for stuff that is really the fault of heavy compression (banding) and sensor related shortcomings in DSLRs.

No, I blame it for having less color and tonal information. Which is a fact. And I enjoy the aesthetic more. Which is my personal preference. So maybe slow down on the coffee.
 

If a line-skipping DSLR went 10bit tomorrow in a firmware update you would notice no difference.

None of the camera manufacturers we're talking about are using line-skipping anymore except for slow motion and the NX1's 1080p mode, so this point is completely irrelevant. 
 

And as for grading, I have tried grading 8bit and 10bit from the same camera and you have to pixel peep ridiculously hard to see a difference. Raw makes all the difference for grading, it is a different ballgame. 10bit is not.

Where is that test and how was it performed? What monitor were you viewing it on? Did you blow it up on a projector to see how it scales? How intense was your grade? 

I get disagreement on what's important, but you're just bullying us with your opinion at this point. 

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I notice a large difference in quality between the GH4's 8-bit and 10-bit output, even on my 8-bit monitor. Maybe nail down my opinion before you attempt to disprove it.

Show us then!!

I'm going to fucking bed!

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Spare a millisecond proving it then, and do us all a fucking favour.

The science is pretty well-known to serious video shooters, so I think the burden of proof is on you to show the uselessness of 10-bit. 

Back on topic...I think Samsung seems the most likely. Ambitious and without a professional line to protect. 

The GH4 already does 10-bit, albeit through the HDMI port. Does anyone know if the DVX200 does too? If so, I don't think an internal 10-bit codec in the GH5 would kill it.

Show us then!!

I'm going to fucking bed!

Sweet dreams. Tomorrow, try running a google search or two and making your own assessments. :)

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There's a big difference between 8-bit JPEG processing and 8-bit video processing. Except in the 1DC's case, which is why part of why it has such a great image

Yeah. There is!! And all of them fuck all to do with 10bit.

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