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Andrew Reid

Canon struck raw, EVF and brighter zoom from XC10 “for cost reasons”

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I guess this part of the sentence wasn't worth adding/?

"Perhaps this was a prototype issue, but all it takes is some tape to fix that."

How many hoops have indie guys used to get amazing footage from a DSLR? This is applies to drone work, unless you have crazy money.

We have gaffer taped all kinds of crap on our photohigher gimbal to fix issues in the field.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

"​ On occasion while flying this camera when we would looks straight down the lens would slide out, and we would have to land to fix it."

I guess this shows the conflict between stills and video in one way - a video-oriented powered zoom won't have that issue.

​Wasn't the camera they were working with a prototype that, "almost works perfectly"?

At 1:10 into the Canon NAB XC10 video that's what Tim Smith says.  Is this sliding issue in the final version?

 

 

I work with drone guys on a regular basis using SJ1000 and SJ800, they always use GH4s with the Olympus 12mm. 

 

​I don't do drone work and I am not a professional.  I'm trying to understand this.  douglaurent is saying you can't rely on a GH4 with an Olympus 12mm because it isn't professional.  The GH4 with an Olympus 12mm is 27.6mm full frame equivalent (12mm * 2.3 crop factor).  Right?  So that's about the same as the XC10?  So for a total noob is about 27mm full frame equivalent okay for drone work?

 

 

My opinion from the outlook is the XC10 is a confused product and needs to be half the price to even consider.

 

I would love for this thing to be $1,000 but nobody is giving you internally recording 4:2:2/8-bit 4k at up to 305 Mbps for that price.  Even Blackmagic is charging $1295 for their 4k micro studio camera with no lens and no screen.  Add their screen and the price jumps to $1795.  Get a lens to match what Canon is giving you and you are well over $2,000... and of course you have Blackmagic quality tossed in for free.  And of course you have a body from one company and a lens from another.  And everything is tied together with a rig from yet another company.

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I guess this part of the sentence wasn't worth adding/?

"Perhaps this was a prototype issue, but all it takes is some tape to fix that."

How many hoops have indie guys used to get amazing footage from a DSLR? This is applies to drone work, unless you have crazy money.

We have gaffer taped all kinds of crap on our photohigher gimbal to fix issues in the field.

 

LOL if you wanna buy a camera for drone work, that's lens allegedly slips out when pointing down, with the intent to GAFFER TAPE it, then by all means.

 

BUT IVE NEVER heard of someone wanting to purchase a camera with the intent of GAFFER TAPING it. let alone a 2500$ one. I totally understand resourcefulness, but when it's required, not when you just feel like it? 

 

 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Well I am almost sure this is a prototype issue, it's a pre production model that's not finished and abused, Canon's 18-55, 18-135, 55-250 don't extend when tilted, unless they are significantly abused. 

 

Anyhow, even if it does, I have a lot of great Nikkor zoom lemses that show this behaviour, and it's so negligible I don't even remember which lenses exactly have it or not! I would have absolutely no problem whatsoever putting a small piece of gaffer tape on something when I need it for a specific use like setting it up on a drone. 

Again, we have no idea if this will show on the final brand-new production model, which I bet it won't, but even if it did, I have absolutely no probalem with it and believe non of you do too, at least the majority and would be cursing Canon just for a matter of principle not because that small issue affects your work negatively, I don't know anybody who would not be able to put a piece of tape or finds it inconvenient, especially when he's doing it for setting up the drone, a specific use. On land, many Nikon/Sony/Panasonic/Sony lenses show this behaviour yet no one is so offended, but when Canon allegedly has it on a preproduction prototype model mentioned by one user, well you see what happens, complete lens-creep-o-phobia :) 

Anyhow it's sometimes hard to remember no one actually reviewed or used the sold camera to give conclusions. It's no fun but sorry we have to wait. Some of us like to see the camera guilty until proven otherwise with world reviews, and some like to see the camera fine until proven otherwise by reviewers, I am the later. 

 

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​It records until the card is full?   Is this the first Canon to do this?   I believe everyone else figured this out a half dozen years ago. 

​To be fair, most of the cameras sitting at the edge of convergence between stills and video have a limit on the clip length.  For most it is under 30 minutes.  The number that go past that can be counted on one hand. Of course for a camera that is being marketed for video at this price level, even the dinosaurs at Canon realized they had to do better.

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Guys seriously. 

It's been long enough for you to have figured out that the 30min limit isn't something technical to figure out. 

The reason they have it is that if I order a camera from outside the EU that records over 30min it's VAT plus an extra 14%.

​If it records under 30min I pay VAT only.

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I guess this part of the sentence wasn't worth adding/?

"Perhaps this was a prototype issue, but all it takes is some tape to fix that."

HI Jimmy, 

just wondering what your thoughts on the new Black Magic drone camera are ?

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicmicrocinemacamera/expansion

 

peeps are saying stuff like 

"I think some of the big points for us are:
Global Shutter, RC control - including lens functions, Compact package, Interchangeable lenses - not a GoPro or DJI style camera
Expansion interface which the controller can interact with, and they will publish the specifications. Speculation on my part is it looks like it could be balanced aerodynamically as well the weight distribution. "

and talk about

 

S.Bus and PWM pins on the expansion port let you set up remote or wired camera controls for total flexibility so you can build a setup that allows you to control everything from exposure to focus and even zoom from a remote location. A stabilized drone camera with a remotely controlled zoom lens on it? "

- so I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on this one.. I'm sure the next version will have  2.2k/2.7k/4k for sure :)

cheers

Tony.

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It is almost perfect, especially the global shutter and DR. I will be very interested to see if DJI or others make a nice gimbal for it (the marketing images look very much like a DJI gimbal?)

I just wish they had though about post stabalisation. The 2.7k sensor would have been so much better. No matter how good your gimbal, adding a touch of stablisation in post just gives it that floaty, filmic feel. Hopefully the 1080p will be good enough that you could stabilise and resize it back up and still have a detailed image.

I would also like to see 48p and maybe a smaller battery. It is pretty damn exciting though.

My "bread and butter" work is now calling for 4K, but this camera would really suit a more narrative based work (where I don't think 4K means alot, personally).

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http://www.cinema5d.com/canon-xc10-footage-first-impressions-and-review/

Conclusion: "All in all I would expect a market leader like Canon to deliver a more solid product especially when the price tag is so high for what it is. I can sum up that working with the XC10 was simply tiring for me. Too much menu fiddling and “worries” about staying in focus but hey, who said that the way to produce nice looking images should be easy…."

 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

I find most of his Cons list pretty lame to me, to to everyone, but for me and zi think for most people there are pretty weird to justify making it a hard or bad camera to use, 

 

example: 

1-Only three assignable buttons. There's is a dial for shutter and iris and you programm one to ISO and one to Magnification and one to some other function like ND filter for example. Not sure how limiting would that be, of course a C300 as a button for zebras, one for peaking, one for WB, 6 for playback, 3 is more than enough to make a fast shooting experience. Ypu go to the menu to set zebras and peaking, something I leave on all the time. 

2-He can't record whilst being im the menu, he has to go out first, which ''limits his quick shooting". I never recorded in a menu, that just me.

3-120p only at 720. Is that a bad standard now? especially when 1080p 60p and 120p 720p looks absolutely gorgeous with no lime skipping or any signs of aliasing and a pretty sharp image. 120p 720p is a Con now? 

4-Minimum native ISO is 500 ISO, C300, alexa, f65, a7s, a7ii, are 850, 3200, 320, and some don't have ND. What's a major Con in 500 ISO? 

5-When you change to 120p shutter goes to 100 normally as it cant be lower, when you are shooting that at 100s he's annoyed it doesn t turn to 50s when set to 25p again. Weird. 

6-Maginification is only only one step and is't DSLR like, of course it's not, it's a 1:1 of an 8 mp sensor, just like the magnification on the C100/300 which is not as far as DSLRs. Getting a native 1:1 from 4K + peaking is pretty much lovely for getting perfect focus. 

7-You have to use two cards one SD and one CFast if you want to mix 4K and 1080p, I find absolutely no problem with having a cheap SD to carry my HD in fact I love that for organization and not to fill me expensive Cfast card with 1080p and leave it for 4K 305mbps. 

The only two Cons that I found normal and real are 

1-The optical loup is not focused correctly on the entire LCD plane, 

2-It's region restricted 

3-Of course lens os not constant which is a pain for zoominf whilst shooting. 

Overall, it looks like a very good design and what more important, look at the images, I've never seen anything that looks this good in colour, organic resolution, texture, lack of compression, just a very neutral filmlic image and surprisngly DR is very high and the lens can get pretty shallow stuff, and it looks great at 5000 ISO on a 1" sensor. In fact the little few samples I've seen even before it's realeased yet look better than anything I've seen from the GH4/Rx10/FZ100/X70/Ax100. It looks like a lovely images, I downloaded the original and played with grading and it's absolutely stunning. even a notch above C100/300 OG just with deeper DOF. The only camera I've seen that makes images close to this good quality is the nx1 (which benefits the  lens control, but loses great codec, broadcast approval, NDs, rotating grip, higher DR and Canon Log, better IS, natively supported codec, unlimited redcording, 4:2:2, 10bit out, 305mbps), but they are different beasts for different uses and the nx1 lens choice and looks you can get is a huge huge benefit for some. 

An interestinf feature Chuck westfall mentions but no one discussed yet is that on the C300II and XC10 there are custom profiles that match various other manufacturers cameras in colour and gamma, like alexa, red, sony, I wonder how well that looks since Canon themselves are saying this gives alexa look. It's be a dream if it works as marketed. 

I am just Disappoonted about the Loup quality, variable lens is cool for me since it looks to be very high qualitt optics and region restriced is not an issue as I only shoot here. I'd be disappointed of the Loup really is not good to look at and use as a viewfinder, it should, Zucoto made great ones with the 5Ds, why should canon them selves do similar and better? I hope this is a preprpduction bug in the optics focal plane. 

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I agree, skin tones look very good and there's a good amount of "organic" feel to the image,

although the creator of the video did add FilmConvert in post, which is a great way to make images feel less clinical. 

Some clipped highlights, though (outdoor scenes). 

Personally I don't mind the slow lens. I almost always end up shooting at F5.6 or F8 to

get a deeper DOF. That's just y style, not a knock on creators who prefer shallower DOF. 

 So, all in all, I think it's a good first outing for the much criticized XC10. At least from an ENG POV. 

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