CANON 1D-C

[FilmMan]

Canon 1DC

[url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/08/canon-eos-1d-c-availability/"]http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/08/canon-eos-1d-c-availability/[/url]

Let's see what Canon does in the near future...should be soon?

[Andrew Reid]

Just a second, let me find that $15,000 down the back of my sofa...

[FilmMan]

I've been saving my empties. I'm only $14,975 short.

[moebius22]

Why would anyone buy it? Might as well get a RED spending that much. Strictly rental.

[Andrew Reid]

Indeed the Scarlet can be had for this price even with Red's SSD pricing.

I agree strictly rental, and only if that 8bit codec holds up.

With the Scarlet at least you get raw.

And it doesn't do 4K in full frame mode so there's little advantage to be had there over the Scarlet.

At time of writing it doesn't even do 25p in 4K (rules out half the world) or peaking (yet).

Magic Lantern has peaking for free, by a third party with no access to Canon's libraries and SDKs. It beggers belief that Canon don't yet see fit to put it on this for $15K!!

This is the kind of thing that really gets on my nerves.

After I posted the 4K files from this camera, I got an email from Canon's pro division product manager in Canada asking to speak on the phone. I emailed him back, but soon afterwards he went quiet and we never made that phone call happen.

I presume it was to ask me to take the footage down!

The only tip I have for Canon right now is god damn listen to me because you are going off the rails big time in the sub $10k video market.

[FilmMan]

On a business perspective, you want to keep the lead. You don't want consumers buying the competitor's products.
Canon could easily secure majority market share for video for many moons. They have excellent technologies. Will they give the consumer what they want at affordable prices? Lot's of competition creeping into the picture now.

[b]On a side note:[/b]

Magic lantern team is making progress in the bitrate department. Will they achieve as the coders did with the GH2??? It is getting very interesting!!!

Here's some quotes from the programmer 1%.
[b]From August 24, 2012.[/b]
[i][b][color=#0000FF]If we can stop the error 70[/color][/b] and this doesn't adversely impact quality it would be a winner. I've never written such high BR video this consistently.[/i]
[u][b]From today, [color=#FF0000]August 26, 2012.[/color][/b][/u]
[i]Ok, thanks to g3gg0 and [color=#0000FF][b][u]nanomad error 70 is fixed.[/u][/b][/color] You're free to set the gop how you like, 1-100 something.[/i]

[lafilm]

Andrew is right, 15K is a lot of green for most DSLR shooters, but let's be fair for a second.

Ok, the APS-H sensor size (4K 8-bit 4:2:2 color - on the 1-DC) is quite a bit larger then APS-C (closed to Super 35 for movies) and you will notice a huge difference. It's basically in the middle...

Check this;

25mm lens = 32.5mm on APS-H
25mm lens = 40mm on APS-C

This gives more options. Also, let's not forget that the 1-DC does Full HD on the [i]Full Frame Sensor[/i] (which will be well over 1,000 lines, unlike the 5D3 and yes, better then the GH2/3) [i]and[/i] the cam also gives you the option to shoot Super 35! (APS-C ). So, you're getting 3 in 1 on a 4K internal HDSLR! I can't be the only dude excited about this!

It also has Canon's Log Gamma (same as C300) which is a MONSTER advantage (shadow details/highlights) and the color grading is gonna be off the flippin chain. Records to CF cards [i]internally[/i]! Remember that on the Full HD you can (if so desired) use ext recorder because it has a HDMI terminal.This is an [i]uncompressed[/i] 4:2:2 sig.

And, of course, I saw this on the big screen and I kid you not it looked like 35mm film. I wish you guys could have seen it, because I don't believe you would be balking about the 15 gg's if you just saw what the damn thing looked like on a huge 65 ft screen (same screen I saw the new Batman on)...to hell with the specs! (as cool as they are).

And yes!!, it has a fuckin headphone jack :D

[Aggrotron]

The 1D-C sounds like an amazing camera. Who filmed the footage, they sound talented if you were impressed. Will the footage be available soon?

Sadly the 1D-C is out of my price bracket, despite how amazing it is.

[lafilm]

Aggrotron,

The name of the (short) film is "[u]The Ticket[/u]". The DP is Shane Hurlbut ("Act of Valor"). Now, I saw this in Los Angeles in a major cinema with over 400 people and I am not kidding, [i]it looked absolutely stunning[/i]. The best video I've ever seen besides; "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo". (Jeff Cronenweth - Red Epic). This footage from "The Ticket" was shot with a [i]DSLR![/i]

For those who wanted to know, yes Hurlbut used "Dark Energy" in post-production. I think it's bad ass but some didn't like the effect and wanted to see the orginal files (which would have been even [i]sharper[/i])

Unfortunately on You Tube, some idiots are uploading 4k at 720p like crazy - but watch it anyway, just remember, that it dosen't look like this at all.

3 Links: The film - 4K /APS-H, another link where Hurlbut talks about how he made it and how the Canon 4K 1 DC is going to change the way Hollywood feature films are made in 2013. It's long (keep reading into the comments where Hurlbut talks) but it's an awesome read. The last Link is Hurlbut talking about how he uses the "Dark Energy" - (it handles compression issues, etc..)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8ulHWBWsU[/media]

[url="http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2012/04/the-next-gen-in-digital-film-capture-canons-4k-1dc/"]http://www.hurlbutvi...-canons-4k-1dc/[/url]

[url="http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2011/08/dark-energy-lightning-in-a-bottle-for-the-hdslr-revolution/"]http://www.hurlbutvi...slr-revolution/[/url]

[Germy1979]

I wouldn't say no to this camera if someone offered it to me... But there are a lot of options out there. I Think Canon has a higher threshold than the rest when they observe their profit margins... The cinema EOS line must be allocated to the executive bonus department over there, because i would have a hard time sleeping at night knowing i was charging $10,000 more than the rest of my competition for essentially a lesser product.. (C300-FS700)..

[HurtinMinorKey]

[quote name='Germy1979' timestamp='1346067824' post='16596']
The cinema EOS line must be allocated to the executive bonus department over there, because i would have a hard time sleeping at night knowing i was charging $10,000 more than the rest of my competition for essentially a lesser product.. (C300-FS700)..
[/quote]

The let's not pretend the image off the FS700 competes with the c300. The fs700 shoots high framerates, that's about it.

[Germy1979]

No it doesn't with its stellar low bitrate... Lets say Sony, later, for no apparent reason though, - decides for shits and giggles to make it 4k?.. Lol They both manage to produce the most non-filmic looking images i've seen this side of a Flip, but even if the firmaware upgrade and the 4k capture device bring the fs-700 up to $15,000.... Those framrates start to make the difference. I don't DP mythbusters, so I don't need 900fps... But the 700 seems like the better bargain.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='lafilm' timestamp='1346039183' post='16580']Ok, the APS-H sensor size (4K 8-bit 4:2:2 color - on the 1-DC) is quite a bit larger then APS-C (closed to Super 35 for movies) and you will notice a huge difference. It's basically in the middle...

Check this;

25mm lens = 32.5mm on APS-H
25mm lens = 40mm on APS-C
[/quote]

Canon APS-C is 1.6x crop. Super 35mm is actually larger, in the FS100 it is more like a 1.5x crop so 25mm = 37mm.

Canon APS-H is being cropped to 16:9 as well don't forget. So actually the crop factors are similar all things considered.

[quote name='lafilm' timestamp='1346039183' post='16580']
It has a fuckin headphone jack :D
[/quote]

Should think so for $15,000. It is a $0.50 part! But no XLR jacks... And we are supposed to be excited about it?

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='HurtinMinorKey' timestamp='1346084329' post='16617']
The let's not pretend the image off the FS700 competes with the c300. The fs700 shoots high framerates, that's about it.
[/quote]

The C300 fan boy speaks!

The FS700 is 4K capable with an external recorder. How does the image not compare? Sure the internal codec is not as good as 50Mbit 4-2-2 but via HD-SDI to a $200 HyperDeck Shuttle it is 220Mbit ProRes 4-2-2 and BBC approved!

In low light the FS100 and C300 are similar, the FS700 slightly behind but only by around 1 stop.

I prefer the ergonomics and build quality of the C300 but in terms of the image, come to me when I am shooting 4K ProRes on my FS700 and tell me it doesn't compete to your 8bit 1080p.

[Germy1979]

Boom.

[Hinterland]

Hopefully the 1DC doesn't street at $15,000 and instead comes in lower (much like the C300 list price vs street). The main selling point (or rental point) I see for this camera is it's size/weight, silent operation, weather proofing, internal recording to CF cards, being able to swap between FF HD, 4K APS-C and APS-H, and low light performance. I for one am very excited about the weather sealing!

It's regretfully not a camera for the ultra low budget filmmaking which is too bad. However it does fit very well into a certain niche commercial market.

Just to clarify by commercial I mean sets that are dictated more by finical concerns then purely artistic desires

[Hinterland]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1346092579' post='16626']
The C300 fan boy speaks!

The FS700 is 4K capable with an external recorder. How does the image not compare? Sure the internal codec is not as good as 50Mbit 4-2-2 but via HD-SDI to a $200 HyperDeck Shuttle it is 220Mbit ProRes 4-2-2 and BBC approved!

In low light the FS100 and C300 are similar, the FS700 slightly behind but only by around 1 stop.

I prefer the ergonomics and build quality of the C300 but in terms of the image, come to me when I am shooting 4K ProRes on my FS700 and tell me it doesn't compete to your 8bit 1080p.
[/quote]

Does the FS700 output in HD higher than 8 bit through it's HD-SDI? I couldn't seem to confirm this anywhere. I'm really curious to see what Sony does with 4K recording for the FS700. Hopefully it's the done in the most cost effective and democratic way possible!

[HurtinMinorKey]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1346092579' post='16626']
The C300 fan boy speaks!
[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6WoXiSUz8A

I will admit that I think there is something about the c300 output that looks especially fimic when used properly. If that makes me a fanboy, then so be it. The truth is, from all the sample footage i've seen, the c300 owns the fs700.

Think about it: the fs700 was designed to be the Sony F3's bitch in terms of IQ, and that's what it looks like. The F3 is comparable to the c300. Using transitivity, fs700 is the c300's bitch. The fs700 is a gimmic camera.

[HurtinMinorKey]

double post :ph34r:

[Andrew Reid]

Sure the C300 is nice but I don't agree with your assessment of the FS700, it isn't a gimmick camera or a bitch.

And I know a lot of bitches and gimmicks :)

The FS700 is one of the most future proof cameras out there not to mention the fact it is a full $6000 cheaper than the C300. Again the codec issue is sorted out by a $200 external box the size of a 2.5" USB hard drive, and again I just don't agree that it falls a long way short of the C300. The F3's image is actually superior to the C300, because it is 10bit and LOG. That makes a difference, more so than the fancy sub-sampling on the C300's sensor. But again we are talking very small differences here, they are ALL great cams.

Some better priced than others (cough).