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Andrew Reid

Lossless Blackmagic Cinema DNG 2.5k workflow for Adobe Premiere CS5.5 with smooth playback and editing

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[quote name='JHines' timestamp='1345752633' post='16318']
I'll drink the BMC Koolaid when the sensor size isn't blown out of the water by most modern video cameras. It simply isn't a camera for low light wide angle work. Raw is amazing to edit with and there is no doubting that. I'm glad the progress this camera has forced on the industry, but a more all around camera with my current set of lenses that I've invested thousands of dollars in is what I'm waiting for.

I'm sure the success of this camera will lead to bigger sensors in the future and I'm looking forward to it, but for now, locked off telephoto, closeup, well lit work with manageable DOF will be what this camera is all about.




Little bit worried... SLR Magic lenses aren't know for their superior optics.
[/quote]

Wide Angle work probably not. Low light? I think the footage shows that it'll do fine. Sure not as good as the C300, but at ISO 1600 it did fine. Plus the grain from the camera is beautiful. However, if you don't like the grain, the camera resolves a lot of detail. I added denoiser and the grain went away, yet the image remained sharp with a ton of detail. I think I'll keep a little grain though when I get the cam because it looks lovely.

Wide angle work I think you have a valid argument. My question is, why not use your current camera for those special cases? Sounds like you already have a camera. Make them both work together. The BMCC has few faults that one can get over.

I agree with the others, Extreme shallow DOF is just annoying now (I'm guilty of doing it too). If you look at movies, you'll see that the background slow blurs out. It's buttery, not extreme. That's why the DSLR community kept complaining about focusing. Everyone was shooting way too shallow.

I think smooth DOF has been shown with the BMCC. Like the shots where the girl is at the pool table. Also in the other video posted where we see a flower sharp but the background is shallow.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
@Shawn_Lights,

I did the same thing too.

@everyone else,

It'll be interesting how the other camera manufacturers respond...BM has raised the bar and I'm not talking about stools or the pub!!!

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[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1345756588' post='16329']
I'm early in my Resolve adventure but it was impressive at first glances. However I don't get smooth playback of CinemaDNG in it.
[/quote]

Resolve is very dependent on the system / GPU you're running and HD speeds.

If anyone hasn't looked at V9, you'll also notice from V8, they've added a lot of basic editing functions as well.

Nice work Andrew.

jb

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[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]I was running the beta, maybe that could have something to do with it.[/left][/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]Here are my specs for the curious. It's only a Macbook Pro 17" but a high end one[/left][/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]Quad 2.2GHz Core i7[/left][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]Radeon HD 6750M 1GB[/left][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]OCW 256GB SSD 6G (550MB read, 525MB write)[/left][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]8GB RAM[/left][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]Thunderbolt[/left][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion[/left][/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][left]Professionally, Resolve isn't really designed to be run on laptops, is it? So I'll be using a AE / Premiere workflow as a stop gap before possibly upgrading to a dedicated workstation for Blackmagic Cinema Camera projects.[/left][/font][/color]

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[url="http://www.blackmagic-design.com/med...nfig_Guide.pdf"]http://www.blackmagic-design.com/med...nfig_Guide.pdf[/url]
Page 19. Better GTX cards available now.

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i love how the fullframe look is so last season and deep focus is the shit now.

what will we do if sony actually brings out the a99 with amazing video? will it be the fullframe look again??? what shall i tell the kids?

but i´m happy the dslr community woke up from the h264 nightmare. we just have to tell the clients about this and if we´re lucky we don´t have to shoot on 5ds any more!

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[quote name='nickname' timestamp='1345761650' post='16339']
i love how the fullframe look is so last season and deep focus is the shit now.

what will we do if sony actually brings out the a99 with amazing video? will it be the fullframe look again??? what shall i tell the kids?

but i´m happy the dslr community woke up from the h264 nightmare. we just have to tell the clients about this and if we´re lucky we don´t have to shoot on 5ds any more!
[/quote]

I don't think we're saying the fullframe look is bad or that deep focus is super awesome. We're saying the excessive use of shallow DOF and the degree of how shallow people shoot is ridiculous.

When the 5D came out it was cool because we wasn't able to really do that before. However, that's not how movies look. People are waking up now.

I love the fullframe look.

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Before that we had small chip or very PITA 35mm adapters.

Indeed it is all about balance. Small chip is too deep, gives you no creative control, full frame is abused.

It is like anything in film, known how to use it, know when to use it - judgement is key. If your actor is going constantly in and out of focus and your location is always a bland creamy one-tone background it looks rubbish.

Gale Tattersall on House knew how to make use of a full frame sensor and extremely shallow depth of field in the framing of peoples eyes (showing the emotiveness of their eyes) and small interior spaces in low light.

Many filmmakers, Orson Wells for example with Citizen Kane knew how to use a deep depth of field where it was most appropriate.

It isn't one style which is better than the other, it is about having the choice and assigning them correctly.

I am glad we have the choice. The people who give DSLRs a bad name by shooting poor work with them should not detract from this.

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i just hope some sub s35 size sensor standard will be established at some point so it makes sense to build cine grade lenses for it with high contrast and no breathing. i´m tired of shooting "cinema" with photo lenses. every time an actor walks across the room my image zooms. i hate it. maybe we can wake up from that bad dream too. i mean i love my nikkors but they pale against even zeiss HS.

will we see a scarlet with 1´ 3k sensor for 3k? will we see a set of zeiss digital16 primes?

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Get an Iscorama.

They kill the focussing barrel on the prime and you focus with the anamorphic.

Zero breathing.

And 16:9 is for television anyway :)

Remember the sensor is larger than Super 16mm, if you put a Zeiss S16 cinema lens on the Blackmagic it will vignette.

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People don't usually edit raw footage, the first thing you do is make some compressed proxies for editing and you forget about the RAW.
Once you have your film ready, then you replace it and only post and grade what you actually need. Grading is also about color and light continuity, so doing it before editing is not only overkill but not good practice really.

We could do with some tools to make all this process smoother.

RED actually have something pretty cool for this. With their R3D raw format footage comes a bunch of different resolution quicktime proxies. These files are actually really light as they don't contain any images, they're just interpreters for the R3D raw footage that will tell Premiere/FCP/whatever to only read ever other line, or every 3rd line, etc in order to get fast playback for editing.
This is cool because then you don't need different duplicates of the footage in different resolutions and codecs, all the proxies are actually reading from the source raw material. This obviously makes sure that all different resolution proxies share proper timecodes and will be easy to switch to full resolution for post.

Hopefully something similar will eventually come out for the BMC/Digital Bolex footage.

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It'll be interesting how the Goliath's respond to Davey! Will they let BM get firmly off the ground or will they attempt to try to disrupt the landing?
Will it be late nights for the engineers for Canon, Sony, Panasonic, etc., trying to develop a quick fix? Stay tune...it could get fun...

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I'm sure it will. As I said before, the independent filmmakers are a small market for companies like Canon, and this camera is not going to be that disruptive to them, but it is to other companies, and I'm sure there will be a ripple effect that will eventually affect Canon and the big guys too. I keep thinking the next 7D could be great, let's see...

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Really, how many people bought a 5D or 7D for video?

We're not just talking indie filmmakers here Bruno.

- Students
- Consumers
- Hobbyists
- Small studios
- Indie filmmakers
- Freelance journalists
- Corporate filmmakers
- Music video directors
- Hollywood filmmakers
- Even Philip Bloom

That is a pretty big list from the smallest guy to the very top, a VAST slice of the imaging market.

I believe Canon should do their market research and try to realise what they are about to lose.

I hope it is giving them sleepless nights. A bit of a fright is the only thing which will get them innovating again, in my opinion they have had it far too easy so far.

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[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1345771203' post='16354']
It'll be interesting how the Goliath's respond to Davey! Will they let BM get firmly off the ground or will they attempt to try to disrupt the landing?
Will it be late nights for the engineers for Canon, Sony, Panasonic, etc., trying to develop a quick fix? Stay tune...it could get fun...
[/quote]

First they will have to fix the management. As soon as these cameras start shipping in volume at some point probably with the release of their 2nd generation model when the awareness is out there and the v1.0 bugs have been ironed out, they are going to be unstoppable.

I already know a lot of Alexa people who need a raw camera to intercut, but one that is smaller and lighter for handheld work. The BMD is that camera. It will be popular at rental too. Who really wants to shoot with a DSLR now?

The A99, GH3 and full frame camcorders from Sony have a chance. The D800, 5D3, 7D, etc. have now peaked and they are on the way out for video. At least they still have a purpose for stills so they are not completely dead!

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