JulioD

Hey HFR nerds, your two time Oscar winning director pinup boy changed his mind and now says HFR sucks.

"You cannot blame audiences for not liking it because it's bad"  - Ang Lee

https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/ang-lee-bruce-lee-biopic-wont-be-3d-1234969304/

CP16. 
Cinema Products brand…who were also making this new gadget called a Steadicam that’s about to be 50 years old.  

It was a common news film camera.  They also had mag film where the sound was recorded directly onto a mag stripe on the film itself.  It wasn’t as good as the open reel recorder of course.  
 

I used one on my first short movie.  It feels very cheap and lightweight but it was a staple.  

I’m talking about to offload.  
 

a CFe card would go into a USB-C reader right?  
 

not the card.  Not in the camera.  In the reader. 

I think it can also offload over wifi.  More useful if not needing to be hard connected. I suspect the slower speed wouldn’t be noticed much either.  
 

I think they’re planning. Magazine with dual CFe cards aren’t they? 
 

10Ge surely is faster than a CFe card over usb-c ?

most dits have ssd local raids in my experience. 

29 minutes ago, kye said:

Yeah, my impression was that lots of these things were aimed at high-end professional users.

There was one bit where (if I understood him correctly) he said you can plug an ethernet cable into the camera and start editing the footage on the card while it's still in the camera.  There was another part where (if I understood correctly) he said that Resolve can even access clips that are still being recorded, which would enable an editor to get started on a multi-camera show with 10 cameras all rolling for hours at a time.

There is a whole world of situations outside the I-shoot-then-download-then-edit-then-colour-then-audio-then-export workflows.

Yeah that's my understanding too, with the ethernet connection.  Why else do a 10G on the camera I guess?  

8 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Sure, if you have some storage that can write at 16+ gigabytes/second, offloading from 4 NVMe drives will be screaming fast.  For me, when I'm offloading now from a single CF Express card, the 10gE network to my NAS is the bottleneck.  Making the storage medium faster wouldn't do a lot...  but if you have 100gE or you're offloading to a local NVMe RAID for editing, maybe it'll give some advantage.  🙂

Well I’m assuming a DIT on a three camera shoot will appreciate it.  
 

pretty sure they are doing a CFe dual card magazine too. 

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

There's almost no way that they're pushing enough data to actually require 16 lanes of NVMe, even if it's only at gen 3 speeds. 
 

Ahh but good for offload speeds right?

But they’ve never ever supported it? It’s not like they stopped supporting it.  They never have and now they’re saying they aren’t working on it? 

6 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Anybody who has had anything more than a superficial interaction with Atomos will be thrilled to never do any business with them again.  With or without Young, they are are garbage company.

They have a corrosive culture that comes from him as a founder.  Having him return after doing some token penalty time is farcical. 
 

What has changed since he left? Nothing.  
 

Meanwhile their stock is still not trading because of serious (criminal?) accounting issues where they lied about sales volumes. 
 

The whistleblower was fired for raising it and that case is still going. 
 

They are awful 

It’s just not how it works.  Sony semi sells and DESIGNS sensors.  They don’t hold back tech from any customer who is willing to pay.  They also do business with Sony direct competitors.
 

They all co-operate a lot more than us consumers realise   

Think of them as a seperate company to Sony cameras.  

PDAF isn’t owned by Sony. 

Dual gain sensors are on some canon cameras and some Blackmagic sensors too.

https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/stories/dgo-sensor-explained/

15 minutes ago, kye said:

Announcements like this are just wonderful...

All it took was a pair of press-releases and all of a sudden dozens of people with no training or experience instantly turn into patent attorneys and corporate lawyers specialising in mergers and acquisitions and market strategists etc, and not only that, they also instantly gained insider knowledge about market caps, sales figures, product strategies, etc, and just when you'd think that it couldn't get any better they also become R&D experts in both hardware and software design!

With a shift so radical in capability, even the hardened skeptic must believe there is a higher power involved.

At least all the armchair camera engineers go quiet for a while

1 hour ago, EspenB said:

You can not "extend" a patent. 

 

Yes you can by doing a minor tweak and then applying for a new patent.  Pharma companies do this all the time just changing the delivery method for the same drug.  
 

I don’t agree with the practice, but it’s naive to think this patent runs out when the new one RED just posted sounds awfully similar. 
 

“A 2018 study by Robin Feldman, a professor at the University of California Hastings College of the Law in San Francisco, found that 78 percent of new drug patents between 2005 and 2015 were for existing drugs.”

https://undark.org/2021/06/16/how-patent-extensions-keep-some-drug-costs-high/

2 hours ago, EspenB said:

Countdown has been running since November 2019.

RED extended the patent. This is a common technique used by pharma companies to extend the IP protection. 
 

https://ymcinema.com/2022/12/01/red-digital-cinema-filed-another-patent-related-to-compressed-raw/

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Over on Nikon Rumors, a commentator posted this 

 

Ooohhhh remember when RED did this??

https://www.engadget.com/2018-02-13-foxconn-red-8k-cameras.html
 

and it turned out to be…nothing?

This whole synergy making things better cheaper is just corporate BS

No way is Nikon making a Burano type camera.  
 

Nothing will change at either company.  
 

A few years from now RED fold from stagnation or gets bought back by the owners and re-launches.  
 

1 hour ago, kye said:

 

It's well respected in post-production for being a good codec to edit and colour grade (efficient with computer resources etc).  The people who know how to colour grade don't really care much about the image from the high-end cameras because they're all flexible enough in post to get what you want from them, but the codec performance is a real thing.

No it’s not well respected by post.  Thats myth.  I’m going to guess you aren’t in post at a high end facility.  Nobody I’ve met likes or prefers REDCODE over other raw codecs.

Owner operators who own red cameras are the only ones who talk like this.

It’s a high bit depth raw codec and that’s all it has going for it.  It’s actually not that efficient.  ProRes plays back faster. ProRes RAW plays back faster.  BRAW plays back faster.  Why do you think they sold stupid things like RedRocket?

Most high end post output of RED didn’t use REDs own cards for final render because the debayer looked better with the internal decodes of the native app.

It was the first conceptually raw codec(maybe depends what you think of Cineform) but it’s not efficient at all in playback.  Thats why they moved to DCT. As the resolution went up, playback gets harder and harder with Wavelet.  

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I'm saying that they bought Red so they could own RedCode and everything that goes with it. I think NRaw was just a stop gap and will disappear or become their uncompressed Raw format. I wouldn't be surprised if the current version of NRaw is just RedCode under a different container.

There is nothing special about REDCODE.  It was sold for a long time as some special mojo.  

It not even wavelet anymore.  It’s been DCT based since Komodo.  Like ProRes and BRAW.

They will keep N-RAW because it’s their own “brand” and now they own the IP.  It’s not like REDCODE is better.  It’s all the same. They don’t need REDCODE and they don’t need to licence it either. 

That’s what I’m saying. 
 

Nikon bought RED so they can do N-RAW and stop their competitors from using internal RAW. 
 

win win

I doubt we see REDCODE on a Nikon.  
 

But I bet this is why we have N-RAW.

And that’s all this is. 

@Jedi Master

https://ymcinema.com/2022/12/01/red-digital-cinema-filed-another-patent-related-to-compressed-raw/

Probably helped seal the deal. This is a common technique to extend patent IP

@Jedi Master RED already re-upped their patent. 
 

This is about Nikon owning the IP that locks out their main competitors, which is not RED. 
 

But now Nikon control who gets to license it.

News today

https://www.nikon.com/company/news/2024/0307_01.html

8 bit 420 can be just fine as long as you don’t want to do anything to it later grade wise.  
 

As long as you’re happy with what comes out of the camera then you won’t SEE much of a difference.  
 

you will definitely SEE the difference between 8bit and 10bit if you try to match two cameras that look different of if the WB is off or has some lighting hue you don’t like.  
 

Basically anytime you want to grade or manipulate the image it is very brittle and won’t handle much correction. 10 bit will. 

Perverse. AI images over deliver in this situation.  
 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/willy-wonka-event-uk-chocolate-experience-meth-lab-1235837133/?fbclid=IwAR1S4lRs2eTLuenEEGro-pOVC1BNUteDcNJ_AQYMinJmgFe1GCRU49eNALI_aem_ASDqmkSsZecQEbJvnJb6b7eJ9ftjr6U3ZFS23kqlN2eNEXUKvv9sfDvgFIOAkrHGi74