herein2020

I actually think it further proves my point that handheld without IBIS is terrible, if you closely watch the edges it is very jittery at times, admittedly I think OIS was off for a lot of the tests and I think it can't be used at all in the RAW modes which is another limitation when the camera does not have IBIS that the Canon reps conveniently don't really discuss openly. I think most if not all of it really was handheld, you could see the videographer's reflection in the sunglasses at times and he was shooting handheld. Let's not even forget that some or all of this was slow motion......of course footage will look steadier when shooting in slow motion. I do think its possible to fix the shakiness in post processing but the fact it was shaky like that, even after slowing down the footage, and it was visible even when the background was so heavily blurred, and despite the fact the videographer was barely moving really proves my point there's no way this camera would perform well for events without a gimbal. On an unrelated topic, I did some research into my current S5 V-Mount setup and discovered that my USB-A mount plate for the V-Mount adapter only puts out 5V 1A which is not enough to power the R5C so for me that further eliminates the R5C as a potential S5 replacement.

I am equally shocked that the "g" word was ever mentioned by you 🙂. I will admit I went through the full gambit, started out on a tripod (real estate work), moved to a monopod (events), discovered gimbals (tried to shoot everything on them), then got fed up with how fiddly they are and with the IBIS being so good I now love handheld. The S5 is so steady that I add camera movement just to add back some motion to the footage. Mind you, that's for standing only or taking one or two steps at most; anything more than that and I suffer through the gimbal rigging and setup. I absolutely hated the R6 for anything video related but that's just me. For short un-complicated gimbal work it could be a good solution though. If you can, I'd try to go to a local retailer and hold one and play with the menus a bit in the store. Unfortunately, you can't find all of the problems that way, but the R6 is really cheap feeling in the hands. The grip is great but the material is several notches below the S5 IMO. With the Sony, would you need to buy Sony lenses to use the CAF?

Well you know the best answer to that right now is the R5C.....IF you can hand hold without IBIS which for me remains to be seen. Of course there's always the Sony camp as well. I don't think you will find a good solution with any Panasonic camera. I do make mine work with people though, I've shot weddings and plenty of events with my S5.......you just have to be prepared to throw away whatever you can't keep in focus.

That's at 16mm, walking, and no gimbal....something I would never do with any camera without a gimbal. The wobble I've seen from the R5 is when it is on a gimbal with lenses wider than 35mm. My S5 is rock solid on a gimbal at 16mm with IBIS still on and I've read the S1H's IBIS is better than the S5's.

Do you mean Lens IS or digital IS? With lens IS I would agree, it is pretty reliable, but the digital IS I have seen out of the C70 and R5C so far looks less reliable and more random than IBIS ever does at 35mm+ in the R5. I'm with @MrSMW no IBIS is a complete deal breaker for me.

I did post that here....my favorite was when the Canon rep said IBIS isn't perfect either because when the sensor floats to the edges of the IBIS system lens distortion could make the image less clear. Funny he didn't mention the IBIS wobble problem that only Canon seems to have.

I do find that part very annoying, with my S5 I share certain settings between photo and video mode; mainly the WB and aperture. The WB for example could be a custom WB set with an Expo Disc and with the R5C there's no way to share that with the other mode. The Aperture is in the same category, having to reset up the Aperture in an even moderately fast paced environment on the same camera would be a pain. For the shutter speed I typically have different shutter speeds between photos and video because with photos I usually use a flash and with video I usually use continuous lighting or ambient light so that part wouldn't be a big deal. I even think having two completely different OS's would be a pain when in use. The best solution would be to have kept all of the R5 video features for when you are in a fast paced run and gun environment and the Cinema OS when you are just shooting video that day. Having to navigate through two completely different menu systems like that would definitely slow me down and I'd have to rely on the Favorites menus to try to gain that speed back. Of course I already do all of that now with two completely different cameras, but I find the S5's menu system to be more intuitive and customizable than the C200's Cinema EOS menu system.

That would be great and in the CineD interview he mentioned that to Canon, I am surprised Canon did not think of it on their own, if anything it probably would have been easier than ripping all of the video features out of the Photo mode. Personally I shoot a ton of hybrid shoots but I don't really care about the delay, the events that I shoot aren't that fast paced and 8 sec sure beats going all the way back to my car to switch cameras.

I am looking forward to seeing more results from handheld tests by competent YouTube testers. The IBIS situation is the only thing that is keeping me from pre-ordering one. Canon is definitely the one with the most exciting releases at the moment (C70, R3, R5C). Panasonic seems like it is one foot from the grave, the Nikon Z9 has fantastic specs but I simply cannot even force myself to be interested in it, and Sony has never interested me. I think Sony made enough noise to finally convince Canon to put down the cripple hammer and start going all in not to mention they still have to compete against their own DSLR cameras that people like me are still holding onto.

That is awesome to hear, I would probably have more gear as well if I had the amazing venues that you have to work with and that many weddings. In fact, I would probably actually shoot wedding videography if business was that good where I live.

I use a V-Mount battery into a USB-A to USB-C cable, it works fantastic, I can shoot 6hr events without having to worry about the battery. Below is a picture of my long form setup. Click here for my other setups and parts list. I have given up on any kind of focus pulling on a gimbal, I just shoot with the deepest DOF I can get away with, use hybrid AF to get initial focus then try to keep the camera to subject distance within the focal plane. For real estate its easy since you can use wide angle lenses, for people its a different story. I've had plenty of takes ruined because of soft footage as the distance changed too much during the take.

Multiple comments that I have read state that the S1H can lock its IBIS, I don't own one but it seems to keep coming up that the S1H has this feature. It is funny that Canon states professional film makers wanted IBIS gone yet one of the highest regarded mirrorless cameras for video...the S1H has IBIS. My S5's IBIS is awesome and from what I have read the IBIS in the S1 and S1H is even better. Of course Canon can't just admit that their IBIS implementation just isn't as good as their competition and that it would have cost too much for the R&D to improve it for the R5c, but their endless excuses are quite annoying. I am guessing that in 2yrs the R5CII will be out and it will have IBIS along with a long explanation from Canon on why this new R5CII is really for real this time ready for anything.

In this video they stated something very interesting that I have not seen anywhere else which is that the existing cages for the R5 will work with the R5c because all of the ports and size is exactly the same. That is pretty interesting to me because it means no waiting for months for your favorite cage maker to make a cage for the R5c. CineD I think really asked the hard questions in this interview. I think he also almost got the Canon rep to admit the DR of the R5 is not good enough for CLOG2. The IBIS questions were my favorite and it really remains to be seen if Canon's electronic stabilization is up to IBIS standards. He really got into the AF as well, and for me coming from the S5 and GH5 I have no doubt that the AF in the R5c is more than enough for my needs. I do wish someone would ask Canon about 5.9K and adding higher compression options for that resolution, that would be way more useful than 8K60FPS. I also wish someone would ask them if the DR in video is worse than the DR for photography specifically for the R5c.

That could be the problem. If they do manage to improve it then I am all for ditching the IBIS, but until they do I will wait and see.

What I am seeing is worse than even this video shows, if you look closely at handheld C70 footage you will see weird jumping at times that makes the video hard to watch. Mainly when things with a lot of details are in the shot kind of like the details from the first frame and the details from the second frame were aligned too quickly and the process added the jittery feeling that I keep seeing. IBIS does not do this, it is a much more natural gradual axis correction process whereas digital IS tries to instantly fix what it perceives as problems but to my eyes the fine details are jittery because the speed at which it corrects the image is unnatural. At first I thought it was YouTube compression artifacts but I've never seen that look in any other footage on YouTube. Also, my GoPro's digital IS doesn't do that at all, it looks much more like gimbal footage. I really think this jitter could be fixed by a FW upgrade; if they manage to achieve the same look I am getting out of my GoPro then I'd be perfectly fine with no IBIS. Canon's digital IS looks fine when just hand holding or very slowly moving the camera, anything more with lots of detail in the frame or rapid changes in camera direction is when the jitter occurs.

That is definitely the best footage I have seen out of the R5c so far, way better than Canon's own horrible intro video. It also really showcases the low light capabilities, skin tones in mixed lighting, and the incredible image quality. I also like that they did not use heavy color grading and let more of the natural quality show through. If that had been shot handheld I would literally pre-order one today. Funny thing is, with the S5, S1, or S1H the whole thing literally could have been shot handheld and would have been just as steady.

THIS is what people don't seem to understand when I say IBIS really is a big deal. THIS is exactly what I am talking about when I say I see horrible random jitter in all of the Canon digital IS clips I have watched if it was anything more than a slight pan or tilt. I saw it in the C70 footage and I see it in the R5c footage. I call it jitter, you call it blurring, but we are saying the same thing; digital stabilization looks very unnatural in more situations to my eyes than IBIS does and Canon's implementation of it is worse than GoPros and far worse than post processing like Davinci Resolve but the problem is it is baked into the footage. I can easily fix the IBIS wobble (which by the way I've literally never had a problem with when shooting on my S5) by shooting at a focal length longer than 24mm which is what I use anyway, but there is NOTHING you can do in post to fix the digital IS jitter. I say when you need to shoot at 16mm THATS when you should just use a gimbal for a camera with IBIS. For me that would be when shooting real estate and for real estate I actually do use a gimbal at all times. Exactly, everyone saying just use a gimbal hasn't walked in my shoes, or shot the projects that I work with on a daily basis. I have it all.....gimbals, monopods, tripods, sliders, etc and I literally cannot use any of them if I am shooting both photos and video for conferences, concerts, races, car shows, fashion shows etc. The only one I might be able to use is a monopod but even that would be a real PITA because I shoot portrait orientation for photos and landscape for video so I would need a special bracket to change orientations quickly and you can forget about quick low shots of say a car logo or a detail shot of a boat trailer. Not to mention a monopod puts a real crimp on creativity. And like you mentioned, everyone breathing a sigh of relief that Canon removed their IBIS because it "fixes" the IBIS wobble are somehow celebrating that Canon failed to develop IBIS as good as Panasonic's, removed it, then replaced it with an artificial looking digital IS. GoPro has the best digital IS I have ever used and I use it all the time for underwater video footage; and at times even it does some crazy warping thing that I have to throw away in post because it is impossible to fix. I saw that video test, it did not change anything for me. OK, no IBIS is better for driving in a car with the camera mounted to the car......something I have literally never done in my 10+ yrs of filming.

I have noticed one annoying thing when looking at the detailed spec sheet for the different video resolutions and codecs: it appears that it is not possible to shoot 5.9K except in RAW. To me 5.9K is much more interesting than 8K due to the possibility of reduced data rates while providing the capability of recomposing and reframing a 4K shot on a 4K timeline, but I would rather be able to pick LongGOP or XF-AVC for 5.9K vs having to shoot RAW. https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/cinema-eos/x-eos-r5-c/EOSR5C_specifications.pdf 8K is overkill, 4K is the new standard and to me 5.9K would be the sweet spot if I could shoot it compressed.

Ok, so I consider this a good representation of both the AF and handheld by someone who shoots for a living (vs reviews gear). It was still hard to tell how stable it is hand held since he was adding a lot of deliberate camera movement, he also did not mention if he had digital IS on or how far it was turned up, but the AF was impressive and for once I did not see that jitter from handholding without IBIS. A lot of people are now saying that the R5 also does not have DPAF II for video, and that DPAF II is only for photos and that the AF in the R5c is much better than in the C70. No idea what is true at this point. I have seen the same on the S5...anything over 24mm is tripod steady handheld.

Maybe Canon's IBIS just isn't as good as Panasonic's considering it was their first attempt at it. I typically shoot at 24mm+ on my S5 and have never had IBIS wobble at those focal lengths; instead of removing it maybe they just need to improve it. For wider lenses if you turn IBIS off it fixes it. I do think digital IS has a lot of potential and can easily be better than the best IBIS; especially if it were combined with some kind of gyro metadata system like I've seen demo'd; but to me it looks like Canon's digital IS just isn't that good yet or maybe someone with steady hands and proper technique just hasn't posted a YouTube review video yet. From what I've seen so far, the digital IS seems to introduce more jitter into the footage in more situations than IBIS does unless it is turned way up with a serious crop; at least with IBIS the only problems I've ever encountered are with wide angle lenses. Of course YouTube playback could also be part of the problem, it will be great to see a dedicated digital IS test with the R5c. Another possibility is Canon didn't have a choice due to heat concerns. Yes the GH5S didn't have IBIS but the S1H does; so possibly the GH5S didn't sell that well or possibly Panasonic's IBIS is simply better than Canon's or it can be turned off in a way to where the sensor is stable when the IBIS is off. I will almost believe the heat excuse, maybe in the time they were given to make the R5c and the way they completely missed the mark with overheating in the R5 maybe they went to the other extreme and ripped out IBIS to make certain it does not overheat. But without IBIS this camera ends up in a really strange place as others have mentioned. I do think it would be awesome if the digital IS were improved to be better than IBIS.

A very common gig for me is shooting a conference, car show, boat race, fashion show, etc. For those events I am typically hired to do everything by one of the vendors or sponsors (video, photos, drone photos, drone video, short interviews with some vendors, etc). My current setup is to stage all of my gear somewhere, sometimes in my car, sometimes behind the DJ booth, etc. and run back and fourth shooting stills with the 5DIV then shooting video with the S5 then back to the 5D. With the R5c I would be able to have a single body and just switch back and fourth from photos to video. What those gigs do not give me time to do is fiddle with gimbals and tripods and monopods. To make it even better; I live in FL and a lot of events are on the beaches where it is impossible to sit anything on the ground without getting it covered in sand so you have to hand hold your gear for the whole event. So for the people saying IBIS isn't a big deal it really wouldn't be if I was shooting stationary interviews, or mostly video, or always had the luxury of a gimbal. But for me and my particular use cases and typical gigs it is a bigger deal than for people who mostly use stabilization equipment. It remains to be seen at least to me if Canon's digital IS + lens IS is a sufficient replacement for IBIS. I'd rather continue with my current setup than have a camera that I cannot stabilize handheld.

Actually I will sit back and keep using what I have and watch the reviews, maybe even rent it when it is generally available, so I haven't completely given up hope; those rental rates for the C70 have been stubbornly high though so this probably will be high as well. You nailed it, I would take 6K with IBIS, internal ND's, better audio, and all of the R5 photography features any day over this. Of course that does lead you right back to the S1H but with better AF and no IBIS. Are you sure it has DPAF v2 for video as well? Rumors are already spreading that this is not true and that the AF is like the C70 at least for video, I am waiting for better reviews on that one. I also am waiting to see if the exposure tools and horizon level disappear when you hit record...a major pet peeve of mine when I tested the R6. I agree, his form was horrid and not a good representation at all but Gordon Lang did a better test and it was still jittery. I feel like the digital IS tries too hard or the proper logic just isn't quite there yet kind of like using warp stabilizer but with the wrong settings. I am hoping it could be greatly improved with a FW update if they manage to achieve feature parity with IBIS using digital IS then that would be perfect. I do need it to work without the EVF though, I never use the EVF for video, I shoot a lot of low angles and rarely shoulder height so I need it to be able to produce smooth footage handheld with just a cage and side handle like the S5 does. Plus I just hate using EVF's, the backscreen for video and OVF for photography is so much more natural to me.

Oh I agree, but no other Cinema camera was so specifically targeted towards hybrid shooters. Kai's video shows more awful handheld footage, the electronic IS just looks so jittery even after the crop; even when he was holding the camera stationary you could see jitter in the footage. If the only way to get smooth footage with this camera is by using stabilizers then it is a complete fail as a hybrid camera in my book. All the codecs in the world don't matter if the footage looks like what I've seen so far for handheld use. I already have a C200 for locked down tripod work, I don't need a $10K+ camera system that I can't shoot handheld.

That's like saying what did people do before AF came along......the same thing I am doing now with MF and the S5...making it work, having to throw away what otherwise would be useable footage, fighting to keep things in focus especially when it is on a gimbal, etc. IBIS is the same scenario...before IBIS you had to do simpler handheld camera movements, hope warp stabilizer worked in post, use stabilizers more etc. Just because you can work without IBIS doesn't mean you should have to after paying $10K plus to switch to what should be a hybrid camera. Maybe I am shakier than the average person but all I know is that my S5 makes even complex movements like crane, tilt, dolly, truck, etc. look smooth which are impossible movements for me without it. I know a lot of people may single out Canon vs Sony but personally I've never owned a Sony and dislike nearly everything about them so for me Canon is still ahead of the Sony game regardless of their shortcomings. I like the price, no overheating, the photography features and don't think the 8K60P is a big deal especially since I would probably never use that resolution and if I wanted to I already have an external USB-C power setup that I can use. I don't really care about the micro HDMI port either since I never use an external recorder or monitor. So I really think Canon hit this out of the park except for the missing IBIS Now THAT is something I have been wondering....there has been so little talk about this amazing AF that Canon raved about in the R5 that I really wondered what the AF options are for video in the R5c. The C70 from what I've seen seems to have pretty terrible AF, if Canon chose to use that AF version in the R5c that would be a big time swing of the cripple hammer. I was wondering how they would integrate all of the new AF options into the Cinema OS. I would even go so far as to wonder if they even used the DPAF v1 for the photography side of the camera as well.

I 100% agree, that's why I still have a 5DIV and went with an S5 vs an R5. How can you run and gun without IBIS? I went full circle, used to use monopods like a crutch, then discovered gimbals and tried to use them for everything, then re-discovered hand held with IBIS and now I shoot 90% of my video work for events, promo videos, etc. handheld. I skipped the GH5s and the C70 because they didn't have IBIS and it looks like I'm going to skip the R5c as well. IBIS is a big deal for people like me who shoot 50/50 photos and videos, mainly solo and simply don't have time for external stabilization. I get so many gigs where they hire me for photography and then upgrade to a highlight reel for the event and right now its a real pain running back and forth to my staging location to switch from the 5D to the S5 not to mention I am risking getting my equipment stolen; all I need is a single body that I can handhold for both photos and video for events like that.