herein2020

No I get your point, my point is, it does not happen if you use proper technique. The problems you describe are from bad technique or from trying to perform camera movements that are simply impossible to stabilize without a stabilizer (i.e. dolly, crane, truck, etc.), not from the IBIS system. If you maintain multiple points of contact with the camera, use heavier rigs, optimal focal lengths, and properly correct for camera drift when/if it occurs then you stay well within the capabilities of the IBIS system and its corrections are not noticeable. The whole "bounce" that you describe is when the IBIS has to correct for a problem that is beyond its capabilities. For example if the IBIS provides 5 stops of correction but you ask it to correct for a 7 stop jerk you will have problems. If you use proper technique and can keep a 5 stop IBIS system within 1 or 2 stops of correction then the corrections are not visible or they are reduced to the point of being statistically insignificant in the grand scheme of things; this is no different from combining an IBIS system with a gimbal; the purpose of the gimbal is to provide stabilization that falls well within the capabilities of the camera with or without IBIS. A great practicing technique is to turn on the cross hairs of whatever camera you own, turn off IBIS and point it at a spot and practice keeping those cross hairs on that spot while performing different slight camera movements. Your technique will improve pretty quickly. Of course side handles and a heavier rig help here as well. Yes this gimbal has Z axis stabilization, but you can get very close to the same results by using proper technique and using your arms and the ninja walk to reduce z axis instability in a gimbal that does not have it so I wouldn't call it a huge upgrade. A glidecam in Devin Graham's hands shows the art of the possible when it comes to making the z axis bounce disappear without an electronic gimbal. Pixel peepers will always find something wrong with every second of footage that they look at; but the reality is as long as the paying client is happy or if the footage is for personal use and you are happy with the footage that's all that really matters at the end of the day. Overall I think this camera is a cool concept and for someone who shoots most of their footage on a gimbal this might be a serious contender but there's plenty of run and gun shooters like myself who much prefer smaller kits, faster setups, and shoot mainly handheld.

Although I have no intention of getting one, I am curious to see more detailed tests for dynamic range, low light capabilities, how well the AF works in more real world situations etc and of course some sample footage shot with it by working pros not just the campaign videos. Also, I would imagine that due to its weight for longer takes it would still need to be mounted to some kind of rig that moved the weight from the arms to the back and shoulders. I am liking the fact that they will release an XLR module as well, since at the moment it seems to be lacking that. It is way too bulky and ill fitting for my particular use cases, but definitely a really cool concept overall. Also I wonder if it has any focusing system other than the LIDAR one; does it also have CDAF AF capabilities or is the radar unit required for all AF. I think my biggest dislike is that it is just so married to that gimbal. If anything goes wrong with that gimbal you have a perfectly working camera but no way to use it. And with that form factor it just doesn't look very durable to me.

You pretty much said exactly the same thing that I did....I shoot handheld when the camera does not have to move much and only use a gimbal when I want to move with the camera; since most of my type of work does not need the camera to move much I almost never use a gimbal which is exactly why this type of camera is ill-suited to the type of work I typically film. Of course Hollywood has a focus on stabilized shots...their cameras do not have IBIS and they have multi-million $$ budgets. For the run and gun shooter the handheld aesthetic can actually be more pleasing than gimbal shots when done properly if you know your IBIS's limits. Also, IBIS jitter that you are describing only happens if you try to make large or quick movements with the camera handheld. As I mentioned I don't do this...but I also do not try to keep the camera perfectly stable either. If you have proper camera holding technique you can prevent the IBIS wobble/jitter while also adding a natural handheld look to the footage. The ability to do this is why people still like glidecams for certain shots vs gimbals...sometimes gimbals and IBIS are a little too steady.

Like others have said, if you are starting from zero you are better going straight to RF. Before I even finished reading all of your use cases the 24-105mm was all I could think of. It is the most hated lens in my collection but if I could only take a single lens on a trip (and I have done just that before), I would take the 24-105mm. The 24-105mm F4 is my most hated lens because the barrel falls down (or up) if you don't hold the zoom ring (EF mount version not sure if RF fixes this) and it is a very boring lens; not fast enough for low light situations, not shallow enough for great bokeh, and not long enough to really reach anything far away. But....if I could only have a single lens it would be the 24-105mm. For lowlight you just have to crank the ISO a bit, for that shallow depth of field you just have to punch into 105mm at F4 and you'd be surprised at the bokeh if you are close enough to the subject, and for those times when you need that wide shot you are really thankful for that 24mm end. Of course the other problem with the lens is it overlaps nearly every other lens which is just as annoying as every other attribute of the lens, but it truly is the best all around general purpose walk around lens out there. I have filmed landscapes, talking heads, detail shots, tourist attractions, car shows (really great for car shows where you want to film the interior then get a shot of the lineup with a single lens), conferences, etc. all with this single lens. If I truly don't know what I am walking into, I take the 24-105mm.

You said it perfectly. I love the concept and DJI really thought outside of the box for many of the features in this camera but it is so bulky with the permanent gimbal attachment that I have no wish to ever own one and ironically it is not well suited for shooting handheld. I love shooting handheld now and rarely pull out my Ronin S these days with IBIS being as good as it is. I only pull out the Ronin for walking shots, dolly, truck, crane, etc movements. For everything else I go handheld. Having a camera permanently married to a gimbal is the last thing I would want. Also, my gimbal is the biggest PITA when I'm shooting than most of my other gear combined. I have to balance the camera on it, there's no easy way to store or carry it, it is one more battery that needs to be charged, and I have to calibrate it each lens change or after taking the camera off of the gimbal. It also greatly increases my traveling footprint. I still say the next evolutionary step forward will be when something like GoPro's Hypersmooth technology is applied to mirrorless cameras. With Hypersmooth 4.0 they now have horizon leveling and truly amazing stabilization. If that technology ever comes to mirrorless or pro cameras then gimbals will almost be a thing of the past and you will be able to dial in how smooth you want the footage to be even when walking or driving. The LIDAR AF looks pretty amazing, it will be interesting to see if later generations get smaller.

Yes, I looked around at other boudoir videos and they all seemed to do the same thing; so I decided to go for a mixture of reality show feel, BTS photo shoot feel, then let the viewer think the video was over before flipping the whole venue and shooting the night portion. Same camera, lens, venue, and model, but completely different look and feel. Since I shoot photos and videos 50/50 for the photos that was with studio strobes, my Canon 5DIV, a different lens and different color grading. My goal was to show how the venue looked and what a difference lighting and color grading could make for the photos. My XLR problems were actually with the camera body itself. I tested with a second S5 body and the XLR module works perfectly with it. I am sending my S5 in for repair for the sticking shutter button and the XLR module problems.

I now shoot 95% of my handheld footage with the Sigma EF 50mm F1.4. That is by far my favorite lens although things do get tight sometimes due to the crop when I am shooting 4K60FPS, I couldn't imagine a 65mm. I was a big believer in the MP doesn't matter theme and even briefly owned the Canon R6 with only 20MP, but the part no one really talks about is when you need to crop and recompose your shot. Its easy for people to say just get closer or fill the frame with your subject, but when your lens is not long enough and you are shooting events where you cannot get closer to the subject, that extra MP really helps as you are forced to do some pretty extreme cropping. I end up stuck in some of the worst places imaginable yet still need to get a good shot of the speaker, or runway walk, or the crowd and sometimes every MP counts. I am pretty jealous that you are able to go all in one one system, I am still stuck in nowhere land but such is life. I definitely think you should keep trying the VLOG footage and maybe while you are at it try Davinci Resolve over the winter. No more Adobe subscription for me and color grading is so much better. DR 17 is truly an incredible platform, and each update just makes it even better. Once they fix the Fusion integration it truly will be the complete package. I got so sick of the Adobe subscription that I learned the basics of DR in one week and have never looked back. I shot my first Boudoir video recently with the S5; VLOG really let me push and pull the colors to get every scene to look exactly the way I wanted. It also let me shoot at ISO4000 and get really clean blacks without falling apart at the highlights, and the highlight rolloff is so much nicer than any of the built in profiles IMO (NSFW, 18+ only):

So my S5 over time has now developed two problems: Shutter button sticks - If I try to gently press the shutter button half way down to achieve focus, the button does not move, it sticks up. If I press hard enough to get it to move it jumps past the half way mark and starts recording. Very annoying to say the least, I end up with a lot of false start footage that I need to delete later. To compensate, I have switched to back button AF and the red record button to start recording. Before the button started sticking I could do it all in one press. There is nothing clogging the button, it just feels like plastic sticking to plastic. I have tried wiggling the button and with the camera off pressing it over and over...nothing helps it still sticks. XLR Module - The expensive $450USD XLR adapter is getting more and more difficult to work with. It is getting more difficult to get it to turn on and I have tried everything; changing the connection sequence, turning off phantom power then connecting the mics then turning on phantom power, starting out with all the gains set to 0, etc. Half the time it simply will not power on. It also will not work at all with my Sennheiser wireless receiver. The min I connect the receiver to the XLR adapter it will stop turning on. This all worked flawlessly with my GH5. I have ordered a second XLR module to see if this one is faulty; but not happy at all about the situation. While both problems are annoying, neither are worth sending the S5 in for repair; with the current shortages who knows when I would get it back. Does anyone else regularly use the XLR module with their S5?

Count me out...as long as DJI has forced geofencing I will stick with my Autel EVO drones. All the technology in the world won't matter if the drone won't take off.

Pretty cool release, I haven't seen a detailed spec chart yet but curious if they stuck with 4:2:2 10bit for video or if you can drop down to 4:2:0 10bit, also I assume it will support dual slot recording for the modes that will support the SD card's lower data rate throughput, and without dual gain ISO it remains to be seen if this is as clean at 4000ISO as the Panasonic S series bodies. Also, it has the accessory hotshoe so it will work with the Tascam XLR adapter so another plus. 4K120FPS is great as well, I've started wishing I had that in the Panasonic S5. Fortunately for my wallet, I don't need any of the high speed photography features that this offers so I will sit this one out. I will admit, with every release Canon gets closer to my dream camera but its still not quite there yet. The shutter sync speed is disappointing, it does not have an integrated wireless flash controller like the S5, no dual gain ISO like the S5, and no word on if it will support a WFM to assist with exposing CLOG or CLOG3. The rumored release of the R5c next year might interest me but what it would take to get me to switch back to Canon for video or buy a MILC Canon body for photography keeps growing. For me the perfect camera would be: Canon's AF capabilities Dual gain ISO or at least as clean as the S5 at 4000ISO XLR adapter for run and gun XLR audio Flash sync speed 1/320s or higher Integrated wireless flash trigger (at least 4 channels) WFM for exposing LOG Monitoring LUT for shooting LOG False Color LUT in camera Backwards compatibility with EF mount 4:2:0 10bit H.265 codec Up to 4K120FPS Dual slot video recording Dual slots with both slots the same memory card type (SD preferred) At least 30min with no overheating at 4K60FPS At least 24MP

I feel the same way about the S5 and VLOG. The latitude that I have with the footage I thought was only possible with RAW or some form of compressed RAW. After you discover 10bit combined with a LOG profile and Davinci Resolve there is no going back.

For me the answer is simple, I shoot 10 bit unless my camera only supports 8 bit. For example my drone only shoots 8bit for 6K but will do 10bit for all other resolutions. My S5 will only shoot 10bit with a 30min limit whereas it will shoot 8bit with no limit so if I need to run continuously over 30 min I would drop down to 8bit. To me seeing the difference in output is nearly indiscernible except in certain situations. The real power of 10bit however is the ability to adjust the white balance to a greater degree without ruining the footage and the other real power is being able to lift the mids to a greater extent without losing color. I shoot a lot of modelling and fashion work; usually very quick run and gun work with no supplemental lighting, being able to properly expose the skin while keeping the proper skin tones in high DR situations without supplemental lighting is where 10bit lets me lift the mids without losing skin tone color. With 8bit I have to leave the skin under exposed because there is no color in those mids if they start out under exposed. For properly lit scenes or scenes where very little editing will be done; 10bit provides nearly no benefit over 8bit.

So the mist filter is what created that matte look? That's pretty interesting, I've never used a mist filter but after seeing your video I might get a set. I'm always worried filters will do things to the footage in camera that I cannot fix later. I typically add the matte look in post by adjusting the curves and bringing up the black point but if yours was done in camera that's impressive. Your audio was pretty incredible too, I've only shot a few weddings and the audio was pure stress for me. Trying to get the groom mic'd up and preventing clothing rustle and clipping is a pure headache in the chaos that is weddings. I have one of my rare ones next month and I plan on using a Sennheiser wireless lav mic into the XLR adapter in the S5 as well as a backup recorder in the inside pocket. If I can get one more Tascam off of the DJ's mixer I'll do that as well or maybe run another Sennheiser set off the mixer into the XLR module on the S5 as a safety track on channel 2. Here's to hoping that Panasonic is working on an S5H. My only two wishes for an S5H is 4K120FPS and CAF with EF lenses. I was really hurting on that night promo shoot. I was shooting at ISO4000 F1.4 and had no time to manually focus as the models moved around so I will just have to use what I could get when they were in the focal plane.

Loved the video, the color grade looked great; I have never shot with the XT3 so unfortunately I can't really speak to the color. I do think if you try VLOG you may see a large color improvement. I think the "Natural" profile still bakes in more/different color than the VLOG profile and VLOG specifically does more than just flattens the image I believe it also uses the Varicam color science which is much better than any of the baked in profiles. First I want to caveat this with saying your work is great and everyone has different editing styles and I think the video exactly as is would make the customer perfectly happy, but since you asked for feedback below are the very small things I would change: 1:00 - Static Shots: for my particular style I want motion at all times in video, I believe those were images so what I would do to make them flow with the video is add a slight ken burns affect, slight zoom in/out etc something to make them feel more like part of the video and to add ever so slight motion. When done well, people can't tell if it is an image or video since it is really brief 2:08-2:13 - I always try not to show people talking if I am also playing a voiceover especially the main speaker because the words look out of synch to me with the audio if I see people's lips moving during a voice over I would just use a different shot there; also the jump cut is jarring since it is the same scene but with the people in different places; I would jump to b roll or something completely different to make it feel more natural. 2:43 - I would dip to black there or cross fade to the next scene for a reveal just to make the transition more natural feeling 3:12 - I would add more motion here as well, use fewer images so each one in on screen longer (to match the tempo of the music) and cross fade them to keep the same emotion as the audio track and sync the cross fades to a cue point in the audio track 4:08 - Just a tad of instability, I would add some post stabilization or drop to 50% speed to stabilize the last second of footage 4:35 - Great shot, but the IS corrections make the reflections of the lights jittery, maybe slow motion will make it less distracting or maybe you have a different angle you can use Like I said, wonderful colors, shooting, editing and especially the way the drone color grade so perfectly matched the rest of the video I know how hard that is to do and I commend anyone who shoots weddings so I hope you view my feedback as just the things I would do if I were editing that exact footage. The footage really showed off the low light capabilities of the S series cameras. I recently shot a fashion show promo video all at night with nothing but city lighting and it was incredible how well the S5 performed at ISO4000; that dual native ISO is a life saver. For one of the shots I dropped down to ISO3200 just out of curiosity and it was a horrible static mess, switched back to ISO4000 and it immediately went back to very clean.

That looks like a nice upgrade, 4K120FPS would be great. The times I use the GoPro for anything I nearly always want to slow the footage down later so I've been wishing my HERO 8 would do 4K120FPS.

I shoot everything from music videos to corporate work and always use this feature including in my C200. I also buy nothing but SanDisk Extreme cards and have never had one fail. But I have had a card reader go bad and corrupt two cards in the ~15yrs I've been shooting. I use this feature in all of my cameras except the drones and that's only because they don't offer it. It doesn't seem important until that one time you have a failure. I have never met a photographer who did not use this feature when their camera had two slots and a lot of the mirrorless shooters come from the photography world where it is commonplace. Wedding photographers and videographers definitely use this religiously because all it takes is one upset bride to post all over social media that you lost her footage for your business to tank. To me this particular feature is as far from spec hunting as it gets; if your entire business could be affected by a single feature then yes...its pretty high on your list of must haves.

I am definitely not working on any Hollywood level projects...but I need XLR all the time, its not just cable runs where it is important, it is also the wireless mics that I use, the wired taps into the mixing boards, concerts, wedding DJs, all use XLR; and yes, sometimes I do need a 50' wired run from a mixing board to my XLR input. I caveat all of this with the fact that I do not know anything about USB audio, maybe it really is that great and camera makers should include it in their cameras, but I do know that I've had to connect to almost everything imaginable and I have spent a small fortune on prosumer grade audio gear and it is all based on the XLR interface.

@newfoundmass nailed it.....I would never want a USB mic over an XLR mic. Yes XLR is ancient, and large, and unwieldy; but the entire audio world ecosystem is built around it. If camera makers started going off on their own with USB audio they would make it a nightmare to tap into the 20+ years worth of XLR interfaces out there. For the work that I do I have to connect to DJ mixers, PA systems, wireless mics, wired mics, karaoke subs, etc. etc. The standard interface on nearly all of them is either XLR, 2.5mm, 3.5mm, or 6.35mm jacks...not a single USB interface amongst them. Additionally, XLR was designed from the ground up to be low noise and high quality; I can't say the same for USB.

I wasn't comparing it to other BM cameras I was comparing it to the ones I already have which are not from Blackmagic. This camera needs proper lighting, more expensive lenses, more expensive batteries, and a much larger gimbal setup than the ones I use before it will be properly rigged for many different scenarios. Additionally the storage requirements for this camera also far exceed the ones that I have now. My S5 with a 50mm F1.4 and dual native ISO of 640 and 4000 can practically see in the dark; its IBIS is so good that I can skip the gimbal and monopod most of the time, it is small enough to balance on a one handed gimbal, a single V-Mount battery will power it for 8hrs, and the storage requirements are a fraction of what this camera uses. To me the cost of the total ecosystem needed to prepare a camera for production use is just as important as the camera itself. The 12K would need a cage, multiple VMount Batteries, a case, a charging system, rails, handles, etc, etc to be as versatile as my current setup. My C200 started out around the same price and when I was done rigging it, the total was around $20K. I'm guessing properly rigging this one including a gimbal big enough to fly it would easily run $40K or more not to mention parfocal cinema lenses, focus pulling system, etc. I can't speak to the P6K since I am not that familiar with BMD cameras other than the fact they are not great at low light and I don't think they have IBIS or useable AF..but the R5 is a whole different story. Just like above, the cage, batteries, gimbal, case, lighting requirements, etc. for this camera would far exceed that of the R5. I look at cameras as simply the starting point to entering a specific camera ecosystem. The 12K is definitely the start of a much more expensive ecosystem than say the R5, C70, S1, S1H, S5, A7S3, etc. For the same reasons listed above is why I have never considered any of the BMD cameras a viable solution to me; they need more rigging to achieve their full potential than the cameras that I own.

Being able to handle a camera definitely can be useful. It was in that very store that my complete distaste for all things Sony was born. The minute I picked up the A7II and it felt like a cheap plasticky gimmicky toy I knew I never wanted to own a Sony. I then went through the menu system (after owning Canon for years) and couldn't believe how bad the menu system was. The GH5 was the first camera I got completely sight unseen, followed by the S5. I dismissed all of the Panasonic S series cameras when they were released due to the new L mount and having to buy new lenses + the AF situation (this was prior to the EF adapter). In that same store I picked up the R6 and immediately liked how cheap it felt in the hands compared to the 5DIV; turns out my first instincts were right. I would have left it there on the shelf if they didn't have a return policy.

Regardless of what it is meant for, it doesn't change the fact that the support system needed to get quality footage out of this camera costs many times more than the camera itself. I watched the CVP video on my 4K video editing monitor and I think my problem is the subject material that they filmed just wasn't the right material to really showcase this camera. Nature, water, fire, dim lighting, etc all are things that nearly any modern camera can handle. A videographer friend showed me a video a few months ago filmed with the 12K (I don't know the link to it) that literally blew my mind. It was more of a corporate setting with many different shapes, colors, etc. and razor sharp detail shots like nothing I've ever seen. I agree with you; I am not a fan of any Sony products, older or newer including the A7S3; but I do think for the specific scenes they showed in the CVP video, even the A7S3 could have produced the same quality.

Where I live there is a big box retailer less than 30min away where on a good day you can hold in your hands a Canon R5, R6, 1DXIII, Sony A7S3, Nikon Z6, etc. On a bad day just the R6, a 5DIV, EOS R, and no NIkon mirrorless cameras but still the DSLR versions. On no day can you hold anything from Panasonic except point and shoot camcorders and pocket cameras. From that same retailer though you can walk in the store and order anything you want (or stay home and order online) and get a full 5yr protection plan against everything the manufacturer covers plus spills, drops, etc so that is where I typically get my camera bodies from. That's also how I got to test the Canon R6 for a week and return it penalty free.

Actually after watching the YouTube video all desire for this camera evaporated. Definitely an incredible deal but the reviewer in the video used a $43K lens, $4K+ stabilizer, generated 990GB of data, etc, etc and IMO after YouTube got done with it, the footage honestly did not look any better to me than C70, S1H, or A7S3 footage. The image stabilization wasn't even close to what even my S5 delivers without a gimbal let alone with a gimbal. Cameras like these are like sports cars. No matter how good the deal is for the car, you need to be prepared to pay for all of the additional costs required to get the most out of it. I have no doubt that the 12K source footage looked amazing, but for me, my final delivery platform is Vimeo, YouTube, and Instagram for most of my projects where all of that extra quality would be wasted.

Incredible deal Firesale price on an incredible camera: check Clients who will pay for the incredible things I could do with this camera: ....hmm gotta work on that

Well like I said, we are never going to agree on this one. Camera prices are already going through the roof with no end in sight, IMO there's no way camera makers would be able to recover the R&D costs of implementing what you are suggesting from all 5 hybrid users who would actually use those features. Would they be nice to have...of course, would enough hybrid users be willing to pay the premium to get them; highly unlikely. The ones that are willing to pay that premium and actually need that level of audio are already doing so with things like the MixPre or cinema cameras. Being interested in features or deciding to use them because they happen to come with the camera doesn't mean being willing to pay for something they will likely never need like 6 channels of audio. Keep in mind this discussion is scoped towards hybrid cameras not video centric shooters.....by the time you start talking about multiple lavs + multiple shotgun mics you have left the typical run and gun hybrid scenario and ended up in a video centric one; which once again is not what hybrid cameras are designed to do. If this is a common scenario for whatever work you do then you wouldn't use a hybrid camera to do it. In over 15yrs of run and gun and commercial work for everything from music videos to weddings to promo videos to large events; only once have I ever needed more than two mics which is when I was shooting a talk show; and for that setup I used the MixPre6 and the C200. Its great to wish everything under the sun were thrown into every camera, but when users are only willing to pay for the sky, that's all camera makers are going to put into that particular product.