herein2020

I think it would be cheaper for them to continue as they do now, body without a grip but offer an add on grip, Panasonic's camera division doesn't seem exactly flush with cash right now and not everyone wants a grip. To me offering an add-on grip is a perfectly acceptable compromise. Also, the main benefit of an integrated grip is the larger battery, which is also a downside; now you need multiple chargers and two battery systems if you have one with the grip and one without. With an add-on grip it uses the same batteries.

My vote is with @webrunner5 but for me a product can reach a point to where it is so undependable that it is actually unusable. Pulsing is impossible to get rid of in post and it was also impossible to predict ahead of time when it would happen so to me that's the definition of both unusable and undependable. TBH IMO most AF is somewhat undependable, but the GH5's and S5's CAF were at the point to where for me they were so undependable that they did fall into the unusable category. My C70 on the other hand its AF is also somewhat undependable (just like every other CAF system that I've tried), but it is predictable enough for me to still consider it usable.

I would still buy the one that I have now if I had to buy one tomorrow: the EVO II 6K. Yes the Nano is better in low-light, but where I live 10-20mph sustained winds are common and the smaller drones can't handle that kind of wind. I would rather a drone that I can fly back in the wind than one that is better at low light. I shot this video last year showcasing its abilities. I left DJI due to its very invasive data collection practices and geofencing.

That's my point, when shooting in FF mode with the S1 you are using the full 6K sensor's worth of photosites to create the 4K image so there would be less noise than when using the S35 mode on the S1 which drops the photosites in use to only an 8MP region of the sensor. With the C70 it is never oversampling, so the number of photosites per MP stays the same regardless of it is in S35 mode or S16 mode.

I think the way the S1 crops in explains why there is more noise.....the photosite to resolution ratio does change in the scenario you described. In FF mode it is using an oversampled 6K image and the full sensor to produce a 4K image so there are 6K worth of photosites being used to produce the smaller image which means the noise will be less than when you crop in where you are using less of the sensor but still creating a 4K image. In that scenario yes, I can definitely see where noise would increase. I wouldn't be surprised if the oversampling is turned off completely and only the S35 (8MP) worth of photosites is used. On the C70 it would be a different story because the photosite to resolution ration stays the same; in S35 mode the full 8MP sensor is being used and a 4K image is produced; in S16 mode the crop exactly matches 2K so a 2K image is produced. Now if the S16 mode let you record in 4K that's where the noise would increase because now the photosite to resolution ratio changed. Of course I could be completely wrong and the noise could still increase noticeably in the C70 in crop mode, but on paper at least it seems like it should remain constant when looking at the fact the photosite to resolution ratio does not change. The following video was a pretty interesting test of the S1 from a crop mode to noise relationship. That is a pretty fascinating analysis. Of course I was already aware of how important getting the exposure as perfect as possible in camera is, but their explanation of other sources of noise and the randomness of light itself definitely sheds more light on the issue. Maybe the oversampling process itself adds noise to the image. I think it all goes full circle...the only real way to know if the C70 specifically has more noise in S16 mode is to test it. At the moment I still think it is a 50:50 chance. Another question is....is there any camera out there that doesn't have increased noise in crop mode?

Oh I would never do that just to test the camera, I just like shooting waterfalls since there are none where I live; nearest waterfall is probably a 10hr drive. I should have better worded my response. Waterfalls are where I have seen compressed codecs fall apart the fastest so if I had a chance to shoot a waterfall I think that's where the data rate for the codec would be the highest.....so to me that would be the best real world test of the RAW LT data rates using a subject that I actually shoot from time to time vs using the monitor setup. As far as actually testing the codec specifically, my way of testing it is just getting out there and shooting. For the first few paying gigs I will just keep a V90 in one of the slots just like I did for XF-AVC. To me, sure in a controlled test environment it may be possible to get it to buffer overflow using the monitor test, but if it never does so in the real world shooting the projects that I shoot which is not fast action or that much difference from frame to frame then for my purposes my setup meets my needs.

I guess I just don't understand why that would be. If you are using the same number of photosites on the sensor for a given resolution how could there be more noise since you are not increasing the gain when cropping in? It would make more sense to me if say the native ISO increased when switching to the S16 mode, but without an increase in gain how is there an increase in noise? Maybe the S1 line skips when in cropped mode or some maybe some kind of upscaling is occurring which decreases the image quality or maybe its circuits are just more noisy when handling the crop mode. But with the C70 in cropped mode and RAW there is no line skipping or upscaling, it is just using a smaller region of the sensor and the native ISO does not change. It would be very interesting to see someone perform a noise test for the C70 in the cropped vs S35 mode. That is true, I do need to do more testing, my favorite test is a waterfall where nearly every pixel changes from one frame to the next. I don't have the patience to do the whole computer monitor stills thing 🙂 I am not a very good tester in general, I'd much rather be out shooting than testing. I work through the basics then get out there and shoot. For the work that I do, what comes out of the C70 is good enough for me. I agree though, the back screen always looks perfect and I have yet to find a LUT that can reproduce that look in post. There is a great YT video that I posted earlier in the thread where he went through many of the available LUTs and showed the results. I ended up going with the Buttery LUT for my Rec709 workflow, it looks the most natural to me and gets me the closest to where I want to be.

That is a good point, I haven't looked at the cropped modes at all except when testing crop sensor lenses. BTW in cropped mode APS-C lenses work fine so that opens up many more options for cheap lenses when combined with the straight through adapter or speedbooster. I don't think cropped mode would affect its lowlight capabilities; sure, it is using less of the sensor, but it is also producing a lower resolution image so the pixel density is the same. I think the bigger question would be if the cropped FOV would be wide enough to still be useable. Cropped mode with RAW LT combined with my APS-C Sigma 18-35 F1.8 and the speedbooster dropping that to F1.4 could be an interesting combination for shooting RAW in lowlight for something like a wedding reception.

I tested out the new C70 firmware today and shot in Cinema RAW LT at 30FPS. On a whim, I directed the RAW footage to record to my V30 card and it actually recorded fine. I just shot a few seconds of footage to test out playback on my editing system and to see if my SD cards could handle it. I definitely think my 1TB SandDisk Extreme Pro cards are rock solid, it was almost comical seeing 411 min of recording time available when recording to the 1TB card in RAW LT. When I tested RAW LT at 60FPS though it buffer overflowed immediately. So my storage concerns were definitely unwarranted; this camera, despite its faults is really turning into a rock solid workhorse for me. Below is a quick table that I put together to show the codecs that I care about and their recording times. SanDisk Extreme Pro 1TB V30 Canon RAW LT -> 29.97FPS -> Recording Time 422min Canon XF-AVC Long GOP -> 29.97FPS -> Recording Time 852min Canon XF-AVC Long GOP -> 59.97FPS -> Recording Time 524min ProGrade 256GB V90 Canon RAW ST -> 29.97FPS -> 68min Canon RAW LT -> 29.97FPS -> Recording Time 105min Canon RAW LT -> 59.97FPS -> Recording Time 52min Canon XF-AVC Long GOP -> 29.97FPS -> Recording Time 213min Canon XF-AVC Long GOP -> 59.97FPS -> Recording Time 131min Also, the Canon RAW LT at 29.97FPS seems to have a bitrate of 322Mb/s which is a data rate of 40MB/s, which is only half the 80MB/s that my SanDisk V30 card registered during its tests so I should be pretty safe with it. I will definitely keep the ProGrade cards in my bag, but it looks like for 90% of my work I am fine with keeping two 1TB SanDisk Pro cards in the camera with it set to dual slot recording. If I shoot a project that requires raw footage I will probably just use two ProGrade cards, not worth the headache of trying to remember which footage gets recorded to where depending on framerate.

I wouldn't mind a built in grip for photography but would not want it for video. I have a grip for my 5DIV but for video I add cages, handles, etc. and need to go from handheld to gimbal pretty often so the extra bulk from an integrated grip would not work for my needs. For photography and the type of work I shoot a grip is essential since I shoot mostly portrait orientation and the extra buttons in portrait mode really help out; not to mention of course the extra battery life.

That does sound like the best combination. I never use IBIS for walking, anything that needs more than simple hand holding and I put the camera on a gimbal, tripod, or monopod.

I am hoping its not their "Going out of Business" sale....there's always that possibility.

I also do not like EIS at all and would rather fix it in post...EIS to me adds a jittery effect to the image which cannot be removed later. In all the time and projects that I shot with the S5, I never used anything but IBIS and mostly my 50mm which has no stabilization. @ac6000cw to me EIS adds a jittery feel to the footage, not so much artifacts as much as a very unnatural jittery feeling when the camera is panned or moved too quickly. It works great for slow shots with almost no camera motion but if you pan or tilt too quickly or if you have a lot of camera shake then to me it adds a very unnatural jittery look. Post stabilization does not do this, post stabilization suffers more from a warping effect but the great thing about post stabilization is that you can try different types and adjust the strength. Within Davinci Resolve "Perspective" post stabilization has the best results but when it adds warping to the image then "Similarity" usually does a better job.

I personally upgraded to the S5, you can read about my S5 User Experience here. But in the end the AF was finally its downfall for me. I have a large collection of Canon EF lenses and CAF is not an option when using the EF adapter; buying L mount lenses was not an option to me due to their cost and the fact no other mainstream camera system uses them (ignoring Sigma and Leica here). The one time I tried to shoot a project with one of the native lenses I got for free (the Sigma 45mm), the performance was absolutely terrible; pulsing, missed focus, etc. completely unusable. I, like you, absolutely depended on IBIS, to me it was a lifesaver since I shoot 90% handheld, with that being said I never try to walk without a gimbal, all of my handheld work was using only body movement or completely stationary. Due to shooting handheld, I skipped the GH5S, the C70, and eliminated the R5C as possible upgrade options. This year I absolutely had to do something about the AF, so I took the plunge and picked up the C70. So far it has been absolutely incredible; those internal ND filters, DPAF, and CLOG2 are truly game changing for me. You can read about my C70 User Experience here. I still shoot 90% handheld but I have discovered with Lens IS and some post stabilization in DR is almost as good if not as good as IBIS. I also outfitted the C70 with a cage and handles, and worked on my handheld technique a bit more. The C70 is also heavier which further helps with stability. Even with all of that, it is still more difficult to get IBIS like stability but it is possible. For your scenario where you are shooting weddings, a lot of wedding footage is slowed down in post anyway so that would add even more stability to your shots. I am shooting and delivering in real time and it still looks as stable as IBIS shots when I use proper technique. I will admit it is also kind of nice not having to worry about IBIS wobble with wide angle lenses.

No it really seems like you just didn't understand my post at all....I never said that it was a problem, nor did I say I was expecting something different, if you reread my post all I did was mention that to me, mounting a 50mm lens on a camera and cranking it wide open to F1.0 but getting a F1.4 focal plane is what I consider "quirky" aka not typical.....in other words using a speedbooster in general is not something that I am used to but it is what is needed on the C70 if you want a FF FOV....that literally was all that statement meant.

I still think you just don't get what I said but it's ok. You are focusing on the conversion process and I simply skipped to the end and was focusing on the end result. The end result is that you have a 50mm FOV with an F1.0 light gathering ability but with the 50mm equivalent DOF of F1.4 vs F1.0 when mounted to the C70. The fact that the lens is converted to a 35mm lens wouldn't be relevant to me unless it was mounted to a FF sensor because the effective FOV on the C70 which is the camera being discussed is 50mm.

I found VLOG very easy to grade from scratch, but with CLOG2, the Buttery LUT pack was a better fit for me, I did a few test hand grades and didn't like the results. The Buttery LUT gets me a good CLOG to Rec709 grade then I finish the look with a creative grade.

You are probably right, the differences in CLOG2 vs 3 on this camera are probably so negligible that it would be easier to just stick with CLOG2 even if on paper CLOG3 would technically be the better choice. My whole workflow is around CLOG2 so I probably will just use it for everything. I only have a single APS-C lens that would use it, and I would have to unbolt the speedbooster so I will probably skip it for now. If I do end up replacing my 5DIV with an R5 or R3 then I would pick up the straight through adapter.

It definitely does not need to be bolted on, but I have no RF glass and I do not own the straight through adapter plus I like the extra support that bolting it on gives me so I did bolt it on.

You are saying the same thing I said...all I said was the lenses gain a stop of light but without gaining the typical shallower DOF, regardless of how the math works out at the end of the day the 50mm gains a stop of light and is still a 50mm FOV without a shallower DOF at F1.0. And yes, the 50mm is 1 stop brighter (F1.0) than if it were mounted to a camera without the speedbooster. I refer back to the same video that I already posted that shows the exact same thing I said: I have read that in a true lowlight situation that CLOG3 would be the better color profile, but I haven't shot at night yet with it so I have no idea.

With the S5 I typically exposed a bit to the right and to me anytime to have to do that it is a bit of a guessing game, with the C70 you just property expose so to me that is easier especially when you have time to check the false color.

Congrats, I am sure you will love it. Mine is great so far. That sounds about right....not enough difference to notice in real world shooting. I was aware of the 4K120p limitation, funny how I always thought 120FPS would be nice to have but now that I have it I doubt that I will use it much if at all. I still think the S5 might be better in low light due to the FF sensor and dual native ISO, that 4000ISO was incredibly useful; I haven't had a low light shoot yet so that's the last thing I need to test. I do think that the C70 and CLOG2 is easier to grade right out of camera and easier to expose than VLOG. I just set the exposure for the WFM so that the highlights touch 80 for outdoors shoots. If the sun is in the frame I let that peak hit 100. The video was shot at 60fps and output at 30fps. I don't like the motion blur from 24fps so I never use that frame rate.

Here is my first model promo video shot with the C70. @Django the DR really shows with the backlit direct sunlight shots, I did not use anything but daylight for this video. As far as stability, @kye about 80% of the video was shot handheld and I did not use any in camera digital stabilization. I still am not 100% convinced the C70 has more DR than the S5, if anything I would say they are even, but the AF is so good even is good enough for me. The touch to track is a cool feature but too unreliable IMO, I don't have anything to compare it to (since I don't own the R5 or R6), but it definitely seems like it is easy to lose the tracking at which point the camera becomes unpredictable especially since I only get the center 60% of the coverage area with the speed booster attached. Overall, I am really glad I skipped the R5 and the R5C, those internal ND filters make all the difference here. Many times with the S5 I would just stop it down because there just wasn't time to pull out the variable ND. The C70 combined with the DJI Ronin RS2 is an awesome combination. The RS2 is so much lighter than the DJI Ronin S that the C70 on the RS2 feels like the same weight as the S5 on the Ronin S. I am able to keep my full Shape cage on the C70 and balance it without needing counter weights even with the Canon 24mm-105mm L lens, however I did need the Smallrig extending base because the C70 was too wide for the DJI base and the Smallrig Manfrotto base plate since the one that comes with the Ronin RS2 is pretty much useless. The 1TB V30 Sandisk Extreme PRO card is working out great as well, no problems so far, I just keep the V90 card in slot 2 for just in case.

None of us mention that because none of us have that luxury 😀. The main benefit for these small cameras is handheld work and gimbals, so plenty of movement going on. Wide angle lenses definitely help, my gimbal lens is a 24mm and with enough light at F7.1 you are practically at infinity focus.

@kailash gupta @M_Williams come on guys, this isn't even hard to find, this is well documented in many places and the camera even puts a grey box on the screen at 60% coverage area and does not let you tap to track anywhere outside of the box as soon as you attach the speed booster, it even puts a message on the screen stating AF coverage area has been reduced. Below is one such video documenting this limitation. I knew about it before even buying the camera. I am familiar with how the speed booster works, I have no idea why Canon chose to reduce the AF area, but they did and its well known. I do think Canon should document this better on their own site and was surprised it was not in the additional notes on Canon's Speed Booster page. Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what would happen if I attached the Sigma 18-35 EF-S lens to the C70 with the speed booster attached and I then set the camera mode to EF-S. With the speed booster attached and the C70 in EF-S mode, the lens barrel is not visible at 24mm or higher and AF and everything else works perfectly fine. When the sensor is configured for Super16 you can shoot with any EF-S lens without removing the adapter. So technically, if you ever wanted to use an EF-S lens and did not have the straight through adapter or did not want to take off the speed booster, you would be fine as long as the lens was 24mm or longer. I only have a single EF-S lens for video work so I probably will not get the straight through adapter and will stick to FF lenses.