Ken Ross

2 hours ago, Thpriest said:

I'm more interested in how easy it is to use MF. How do you find the lcd and evf for critical focus in run and gun situations?

As a user of reading glasses, I never find an LCD screen effective. The GH5 is no different, but that's me. Add the additional issue of bright sunlight (and the GH5 does have a very bright screen), and I've yet to see any LCD camera screen that's good for manual focusing, particularly outdoors. 

Now, as ineffective as I find LCD screens, that's how effective I find the GH5's EVF. Forget focusing for a second, it makes shooting an absolute pleasure. It is razor sharp, like none I've ever seen. So between the magnified area, the peaking tools and the amazing detail of the EVF, manual focusing is easy. 

Now with that said, if you're using MF, I still find AF lock to be quicker and just as effective for run and gun. A simple button push and focus is nailed and locked.

I had no issue, but that's because my settings were as described in the answer that followed on that page:

"Okay, using parkgt's feedback, I figured out how to get it to work as well. AFS (not AFF) has to be selected both within the camera setting and on the external AF switch. If the menu setting is set to AFF OR the external AF switch is set at AFC, the manual override/lock button won't work. From what I've read the selection of AFS or AFF doesn't impact the autofocus capabilities of the camera, so I don't see any drawback in making this change."

2 hours ago, Orangenz said:

Can some others try taking photos of the sky please? Never had problem trying to af on the sky before, all modes. 

Are you talking about a clear blue sky and only the sky? There would be no detail to grab on to. If you can be more specific I'll try. 

Jon, you're probably right. Expectations were high as they touted the advance AF features that turned out not to work as expected.

5 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Here is where you loose me. The face detection is obviously broken. It is not working as it should. The camera tracks the face but doesn't adjust the focus.

I believe this is fixable. 

So if you ask me, every reviewer out there should use it. Again and again. To put heat on Panasonic so they fix it.

(Btw, center area is where the subject wont be for 70-90% of all shots. Thats probably the reason why people don't want to settle for it.)

They would make way more money if they only talked about the good things. Max's money comes from camera sales...

First, you're right, face detection is broken, I never disagreed with that. That's why I don't use it and advise against it. It's broken on the G85 too. Both cameras track the face perfectly, right down to the eyes, but focus is unpredictable. It would seem a firmware update should be possible, sine I'd think that good tracking is the harder part of the equation to get right. However, for shooting something like a wedding, it's also important to note the camera doesn't recognize a face until the subject is about 15' from the camera (don't hold me to that since I haven't actually measured it). So even if focus were perfect, users should be aware of the distance limitation.

I also agree that every reviewer should test it, show it doesn't work and report that to Panasonic. But don't you think they should also state that some aspects of AF work fine and are quite usable as the camera currently exists? Don't you think these same reviewers should remind people that something as basic as AF lock works perfectly as does 1-area, and could be extremely effective depending on your subject and DOF? Don't you think a fair & balanced presentation is the most effective one and the one that has the most value to the reader? As thorough as some of these reviews are, they're not thorough enough if they leave out these important points. Not in my book. 

Where I totally disagree with you is that 70-80% of all shots are outside of the center area. Do you know the size of the center area? This is not a tiny spot focus. Do you know, if necessary, that area is movable and just as effective when moved? Did you watch that wedding procession test video with the boy? He was not always in the center, yet remained in focus. 

Things will only improve as Panasonic has pledged to improve the AF as they should. So I'm simply saying the AF is usable right now and people should be aware of both that and it's foibles. God knows with all the attention on the AF, most are aware of the foibles. However I'd bet most are not aware that you can currently work around it. I won't even discuss MF and how easy it is on the GH5, nobody seems to care about that either.

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

I appreciate your contributions, I wasn't directing my comment at you. I don't recall you ever saying reviewers purposely reported poor AF results just in order to increase viewership. Max did however spend some 25 hours testing, and 1/2 dozen or more others whose reviews I respect also came to similar conclusions. Even Photo Joseph, a Panasonic luminary, could not get consistent results. Joseph and Max both seemed to agree that AF-C performed better at 60p with an external recorder, but I shoot 24p and have no desire to purchase an external recorder - a monitor though, for sure! ? And I find it baffling that the Vario 12-35mm f/2.8 v.1 performed better in their tests than v.2. I don't own the camera, I'm not taking sides, I really wish they would move on already. 

Jon, thank you, I'm glad you clarified that. Just to avoid confusion on the AF subject, we're actually talking about two different areas of potential improvement. First, AF is improved in transitioning from 24p to 60p, with or without an external recorder. So for those that do shoot 60p, the AF will be improved, no need for an external recorder. 

Second, yes, AF will again improve going from internal to external recording. That came as a surprise to me, even though for me it's irrelevant since I have no intention of adding bulk and additional expense with an external recorder. I'm fine recording internally. I agree it's strange that v1 of the 12-35 performed better than v2. 

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

It really does not seem to add up, at least in my opinion, that a half dozen or so reviewers whose work I respect, would purposely trash the GH5, or any other gear for that matter, just to increase viewership. In fact, several have already purchased one or more bodies already, and aside from the AF, they say it's a phenomenal camera. Not only that, but most of these channels earn money when viewers purchase gear through the links in their site. So you can accuse a dozen or more reputable reviewers of incompetence if you like, but I think unless you can prove that these reviewers are benefitting economically by sharing the results of their tests, please refrain from accusing them of having ulterior motives.

I never accused any reviewers of purposely trashing the GH5 and never even mentioned anything about viewership or hits on their websites. I have no idea why some of us owners have discovered the effectiveness of 1-area (it didn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out) and these reviewers have not. Now Panasonic has come out and agreed with us. So clearly we were correct and some of the reviewers missed it. Jon, if you or anyone can come up with a logical explanation for the oversight of these reviewers, I'm all ears.

I have been nothing but honest with this community. I've posted examples of my tests and posted additional tests at the request of members here. If that honesty and those efforts aren't appreciated, then I'm simply wasting my time and everyone else's.

1 hour ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Because if they find something that works....bang....end of controversy, and then they have to go through finding the next thing to go on about...because that's how they make their money....perhaps the next innovation by Canon or Sony?...oh...for a second I forgot....they don't innovate...they wait for Panasonic to do that, and then they play catch up....at least Sony does...Canon does not even bother lol

I think PhotoJoe had a real reason to get this to work, but he too used the wrong settings. He had asked me via a post on one of his videos, just prior to the meeting with Max, what settings I used because he was impressed with the results I got. I got his request too late and when I sent it on the website he requested, I'm not even sure it went through.

2 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

Yes I do the same with my c100 II - I have assigned the handle custom button to toggle AF.  So pardon me if I've missed this, but have your or anyone else simply told Max and/or the Photo guy on Youtube what settings you used?

I did on both PhotoJoe and Max's, but I think only PhotoJoe read it or saw it. But when he was on his way to Max, he couldn't find my post because of the way YouTube sorts them. That's when he requested I send them on his own website.

47 minutes ago, Jn- said:

Cinem5D have updated their GH5 review.  https://***URL not allowed***/panasonic-gh5-lab-review-update-clarification/

That was another case of initial bad press for the GH5 as the result of something that wasn't quite the fault of the GH5. But at least they were big enough to admit their error.

2 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

On the first video, were you toggling any buttons, like AF/AE or half shutter press?  At the end of the day can I throw this on a gimbal with your settings and NOT have to touch the camera (i.e. set it on continuous AF and let it do it's thing?)

No, nothing like that at all. Simple CAF with no intervention on my part. Again, I was trying to duplicate the outdoor shot that Max conducted in his first test when he went from a car fender to something further away. He also did a test from a bush to a sign. I did both tests in a similar manner with very different results. All I did was shut off custom AF and use 1-area. Ezpz.

When I'm actually shooting my own stuff, I will use AF lock when the subject warrants. I've done this with all my cameras, PDAF and contrast alike.

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I don't have one, but how big is the focus area with 1-area. Just 1 in the center, or say a small cluster of say 9 you can move around like the G7 has?? I am pretty happy how well my Panny G7 does focus with the right lens on it naturally. My New 14-140 f3.5- 5.6 II has that DFD ability.

It's one area, but also adjustable.

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

So you say its broken but its still his fault...?

Im sorry but I don't get it. Why dont you want all of it to work? If you are happy with it, why not just stay happy but let others try to push Panasonic to make it even better?

I just dont see what you gain from constantly ripping on people who wants an improvement of something. Personally I never use AF, ever. Hardly ever for stills. I dont even have the camera (neither does Dougdale, he turned it down until its fixed). Im 99% I will never buy it and I still hope Panasonic fixes it. Because everyone gains from it, including you Ken.

It sets a standard and pushes the entire industry.

I'm not 'constantly ripping' on anyone. Stop with the hyperbole & melodrama. I am simply suggesting, for the 100th time, that there are settings that DO work. If people insist on using settings that don't work, that's their prerogative, but that doesn't mean the AF can't be used successfully with other settings. I've tried to be very helpful to this community and others by sharing the things that do work.

Of course I'm all in favor of Panasonic improving the other areas, I never implied otherwise. When I say this setting or that setting doesn't work, does that imply I'm happy with that? No, it simply implies I've found other settings that DO work. I don't know how to make this any clearer, I really don't. 

But let's also be very honest Mattias, what drives me nuts are the myriad of videos, including Max's original, that left the clear implication that virtually nothing worked. If you're the least bit objective about this, you can't deny that.

Even in the last joint video, they kept using face detection. How many times do you need to try face detection to know it doesn't work in its current incarnation. They did the simulated wedding thing and focused on hands with face detection. It didn't work...I would never have guessed that. Central area? Nope, he didn't use it or if he did, I missed it.

45 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Laughing out loud! Shit.

Yeah I think Panny has some big troubles on their hand here with AF. They better fix this quick or this could get ugly. This thing reminds me of my Canon 1D mk III. It was so god damn complex you could never duplicate anything you did in the field. It had WAY too many options on AF, and that was the reason it sucked and it ended up like the GH5 is looking like. Too damn complex with all the settings it has. The 1dn mkII I had before it could AF on ANYTHING in a heartbeat. It had a very simple AF menu.

95% of the focusing problems with the 1D mkIII were user errors. But why make a camera that you can screw up AF so easy to accomplish LoL.

Yup, if it was me, I'd totally ditch the custom AF settings. Simply not needed and does nothing but add to the complexity and give the AF a reputation it doesn't have to have. These custom settings seem to attract some like there's no tomorrow. They grab on to them and won't let go, despite failure after failure. It's just amazing to watch. God forbid they try something as simple as turning the damn thing off and going with 1-area. Nooo, wouldn't want to do that.

Can't wait for the next 2 hour Max & Joe video to go over these again. 

2 minutes ago, SuperSet said:

How does this end?

1. Camera stays as it is and everyone just goes MF or just uses touch focus. This is my guess given Panasonic's statement about '95% is user error'.

2. Panasonic issues a fix. I would be surprised if this happens but Panasonic did leave an out with that last sentence about pledging to make improvements to the AF.

No, it ends when people understand that you can use AF with the 1-area setting. It works just fine, thank you. I'm not saying that Panasonic shouldn't refine the other areas of AF if they insist on keeping things like 'custom', but it works fine today if you use the right setting.

46 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Also Dave Dougdale which have even more subscribers acknowledged that there is something "wrong" with the AF and he is waiting on a firmware fix of the issue.

From what I've seen I must agree. Something isn't how its supposed to be. The tracker follows a face perfectly and still its not in focus... The tracker should stay with the focus.

Because Dave also used the wrong settings. What I'm simply saying is that although there are issues with some of the settings in the AF menu, if you use the settings that do work properly, then you'll have few issues and it will work as you'd expect contrast based AF to work. It doesn't take a genius to learn, in the first couple of minutes, that although face tracking tracks the face perfectly, its focus is very erratic on the face. Another mistake made by some of these guys, is expecting it to pick up the face 30' from the camera...it won't.

It becomes clear that some of these settings don't enhance the AF reliability, they detract from its effectiveness. But some of these guys just insist on using the settings that are least effective.

As I said, let them do what they do and I'll continue to use it in effective manner.

Shield, no editing tricks. The reason the focus did what it did at the end, was that I inadvertently hit the shutter release to stop the video instead of the movie record button. That forced a refocus. If you don't believe me, listen to the audio. You will hear a 'click' that only occurs when you use the shutter release to end a clip rather than the movie record button.

2 minutes ago, Davey said:

Senior moment. No idea who Ken Stone is lol.

LOL. I don't know who Ken Stone is either, but I guess he's a nice guy.

I scrubbed through the Max & Joe video quickly and lo & behold, Max came to the conclusion that leaving off the custom settings they got good results. Whod'a thunk.  Unfortunately the damage has already been done from Max's first video where nothing was in focus almost ever. It's very hard for a piece of equipment to overcome that kind of bad publicity. That's why I wasn't as kind toward Max as some of you guys, despite his good intentions. I found it very frustrating to watch that first test knowing he was wrong and knowing the damage it was doing.

1 minute ago, Shield3 said:

Ken, can you simply show us footage of your GH5 shooting a subject at F/2.8 (doesn't have to be 6" from the lens, but a reasonable distance to blur the background) and show the camera autofocusing from the foreground to the background?  I mean, if you "never had an issue" this shouldn't be a problem.  Very simple test, and tons have done it with a slew of cameras (see Philip Bloom's 3 part AF test).  In the real world shooting weddings one might need to AF between subjects that aren't close to one another, and showing us tests of you slowly moving from a street sign at F/16 to a car just isn't the same.

I get Max's "suddenly pop into the frame" tests are extreme.  But there is a middle ground, and I don't feel you've backed up your claim of "good AF" with the sample in this thread.

I did the same lens test that Max did in the house and I was at 3.5. You can clearly see the focus transition from the wall in the background to the lens near the camera. I did another test, early on, with no lights on in the house, on a dark stormy day. Again, no issues. Not for nothing Shield3, but I'm done with testing. I've posted several tests at poster's request here. If these tests are not to your satisfaction, there's not much I can do or say.

I said all along that 1-area was the way to go, when everyone else was futzing with face detection, 225 area, custom this and custom that. I was proven right as Panasonic said in their recent release. If you choose not to believe me or my tests, that's fine. But I'm done with this nonsense. The AF is fine if you know how to use it. No AF is perfect and this is no exception. Learn your tools and you'll be fine.

7 hours ago, Davey said:

Max's latest is out regarding GH5 autofocus. I thought that he was most gracious towards the incompetent Panasonic luminary, who was sweating like a man on his last night on death row throughout the entire charade.

The conclusion is 'Should have listened to Ken Stone'

 

Wait, Ken Stone?

7 hours ago, Davey said:

Max's latest is out regarding GH5 autofocus. I thought that he was most gracious towards the incompetent Panasonic luminary, who was sweating like a man on his last night on death row throughout the entire charade.

The conclusion is 'Should have listened to Ken Stone'

 

I'm sorry, I gave up after 10 minutes to see yet another round of testing to see if the camera transitions from a face to a lens 6" from the camera lens. I honestly don't know how often actual shooters face, in real life, the kind of scenarios that Max seems to love. I did the test in my house and never had an issue. And Max needs to revise his thinking about 225 point being the most horsepower, now that Panasonic is saying use 1-area. So yeah, I'm just crazy, I go out and shoot with this thing, 1-area AF, screw the custom settings, and have no AF issues whatsoever. Did that almost immediately after getting the camera and haven't seen any reason to change. This stuff just never ends nor does the misinformation. 

I also found it fascinating that no matter what settings they used, Max & Joe were getting better results than Max did in his initial testing when his brother would never come into focus? At least here, his brother always seemed to be in focus. I wonder why? Interesting stuff.

We spent part of the afternoon at a nearby lake and I took the GH5 along to do some casual shooting. I used the Panasonic 14-140 lens, 1-area AF in both AF lock & CAF modes and mostly Cinelike D & Standard picture profile. I had no issues with the AF. Shot in 4K60p mode (sorry to those that hate this mode...I like it  )

Orangenz, I do that all the time, don't I! Dang!!  

5 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said:

 

Guys, I feel very vindicated at this point. I've been preaching precisely this from the day I got the camera. I always thought that 225 point AF that Santa Claus had suggested, on is site, was nonsense. How could that be effective when the camera decides where to focus and not you? 1-point was always the fastest and least error prone with the least amount of hunting. I also felt messing with the speed & sensitivity, in most cases, was more harmful than helpful. I still feel that way.

And, I'm sorry, but this is why I always felt that Max, more than anyone, was responsible for so much of this bad press. He never gave the proper settings a fair chance. I think he was trying to be helpful, but I posted videos that mirrored his as best I could and got entirely different results.

At any rate, hopefully this will turn the tide over some of the undeserved (IMO) bad press this camera has gotten.

11 hours ago, Emanuel said:

 

I hope he was just testing his AF, because he's got some work to do on his exposure metering.

11 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

wow this AF thing is looking actually pretty impressive, I have never used AF and would not even consider it. But this might be quite handy for shooting with a glidecam/gimbal. I wonder how well it works doing shots at F0.95 - 1.2. 

Now c'mon now, haven't you been reading, AF doesn't work on the GH5.

With the grading, it winds up looking like any other camera. But hey, it's light, small & portable.

Thanks. I believe you'll get slightly less time using the EVF. My preference with these cameras always leans toward the EVF for a variety of reasons, sun being the big one. Using reading glasses with the LCD also tends to be a PIA for me.

Orangenz, do you see any difference in the run time of the battery when it's been charged on the OEM charger vs the Ivsun?

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

 My looks are becoming a running joke in the forums.

Actually you're the only one brave enough to post your own image!!