Kino

Moc Nguyen always seems to get the best out of the R5: Is this getting closer to the 1DX III image quality? I think it is still a step below in terms of DR and creaminess.

One would assume so, and the camera is certainly not going to "explode," but you cannot be sure there will be no damage due to repeated overheating. There are no guarantees when it comes to electronics overheating. I've burned out plenty of electronic components (capacitors, circuit boards, light engines, etc.) over the years in TVs, monitors, and PC components, even with such throttling protection in place. With Canon, I've always said that they are the most reliable as the Toyota/Lexus of cameras, but they have never had a problem like this before. This is uncharted waters for Canon and its customers.

R5 overheats after 9 minutes in All-i 8K 24/30 fps (not even RAW) when testing the camera in the car (10:20). Then, a little while later when he starts recording again, it overheats much faster. This camera is basically unusable when recording longer than 1-minute clips. You also have to wonder what is happening to the long-term health of the internals (e.g., circuit board) considering the excessive heat generation. This $4K investment could easily burn out its circuits after the warranty period.

R5's 4k 120fps is super clean and very impressive, but the camera in C-log simply lacks the DR of competitors like the S1H. Perhaps C-log 3 will help:

The G2 even does 300 fps in HD:

The 4k 120fps out of the URSA G2 should be added to that list.

This stuff just writes itself . . .

I love the URSA Mini Pro bodies and am delighted they chose to keep it. I never had the pleasure of owning one, but I would definitely purchase the shoulder mount and the EVF at some point. I hate shooting without an EVF in bright sunlight. Like the FS7, the UMP form factor reminds me of the days when we shot on film with 16mm cameras. All you get from RED/Kinefinity/ZCAM is a shoe box with an articulating screen on top. What am I supposed to do with that?

Even Lok got one on "First Lok." Here, he shows why it is Canon's best vlog cam . . . until it gets too warm and you have to switch hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbqtkR_yyjM

I don't think it is going to win any DR contests, if that is what you mean. But if you keep the camera within its limits, it can generate some decent footage with no apparent noise: http://vimeo.com/428556668 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskTIP40HTQ But, yes, overall the footage has been rather disappointing from a "filmic" perspective. Most of what we have seen demonstrates limited DR (around 10-11 stops) and a "thinning" of the color bit depth: Some of that poor quality probably has to do with user error or lack of proper grading options. Otherwise, it is Canon's way of telling us to buy the 1DX III for video.

There are many things to consider beyond image quality and spec sheets if you have never owned a BM camera. I believe you mentioned on another thread that you owned a RED Helium previously and that you shoot 8K for display manufacturers. Well, this is different. You are leaving the castle and joining the peasants. Since we are talking about your livelihood, I would not purchase a $10K BM camera without an extended warranty of 3-5 years. Now if you are selling stock footage at 8K RAW, you may have a problem with selling BRAW as it has not enjoyed the universal adoption of R3D files until very recently. I think BM released BRAW plugins for Adobe and Avid just last year. If you want to rent your camera out for the maximum fee, the RED is also a better choice in that regard. Many (non-technical) people in the industry have never heard of BM, but they all know and want RED. This is due to ignorance perhaps, but it is reality. The URSA 12K looks very impressive in J.B.'s controlled skin tone tests. Colors and skin tones are solid and the noise pattern is so finite that you can hardly see it. But the outdoor shots Grant showed in his presentation were nothing special in terms of DR or color. I would wait a few weeks until you get more test footage in challenging outdoor conditions.

Yes, I agree. But it does even more than this. I believe Grant said RGB (444) output in 8K! That is far more than what Canon and Sony can offer you on their high end cameras with a similar RGB recording function.

I think this is way beyond the RED Komodo, which is just an entry-level gimbal camera. It is aimed more at the Kinefinity, Sony and Canon cameras in that $10K segment along with the RED Helium 8K, which is more than double the price. The main issue is that it is a missed opportunity to offer FF. As it is, the URSA MINI PRO G2 has more DR and is also S35 with the same body (interchangeable lens mount, etc.), and it produces stunning footage in 4.6K RAW 60 fps and 4K RAW 120fps at $6500. That camera has a dual-gain architecture and has been nearly perfected over several iterations. The only major issue is the red-channel clipping on tail lights, for example. Other than that, it offers a very compelling feature set at a much better price.

I hope this engineer doesn't work for Sony, since he seems to get around these days . . .

Kinefinity Terra 5K is "not finalized on shipping date," according to their website: http://www.kinefinity.com/shop/terra/?lang=en It is still a hypothetical camera not in release, despite promises of shipping so long ago. As for the 6K sensor, it's the same as the Kinefinity 6K and has the worst rolling shutter you have ever seen in a cinema camera. For those who want 6K resolution that debayers to proper 4K, there are only going to be two realistic choices: RED and the EVA1. I think Panasonic has done something amazing and noteworthy. It's a very ambitious camera and the Vimeo footage is truly gorgeous (despite the fact that we are not even talking about the RAW 5.7K output as of yet):

Panasonic is now claiming 12 Bit RAW 5.7K output to Odyssey and Shogun using 6G-SDI output to CDNG files (up to 30fps) available in early 2018: I believe that if you already have an Odyssey RAW package, it will be included. I'm not sure if it's a free firmware upgrade on the Panasonic side of things. No mention of file sizes, but if previous experience with Odyssey and 4K RAW is any indication, they will be huge! I'm guessing around 400-500 MB/S or larger given the 17.25 megapixel sensor.

The 1DC produces a gorgeous image to rival any digital cinema camera. No doubt about it. You guys are lucky to have that camera! As for 10 bit, I don't think it would have been possible to do 4K 10 bit intraframe in a completely weather-sealed body as the 1D. There would be way too much heat generation. Unless, what you mean is that you prefer a 10 bit highly-compressed codec to MJPEG. The processing power was simply not there for such compression and Canon had not developed any internal 10 bit 4K codecs before the C300 II.

I would imagine that the 1DX and 1DC were designed together as part of one platform, but released in a staggered way so as to maximize profits for the same product. Even Sony has become the master of this! Moreover, this does not take away from the originality of the 1DC's approach to 4K intra-frame video using MJPEG. No other DSLR manufacturer offered internal intra-frame 4K in those early years. Combined with the 4:2:2 subsampling, large pixel pitch, and 1.3 crop factor, this accounts the 1DC/1DXII's superior image quality compared with other 8-bit DSLRs. And, just as you stated above, I even prefer its image to the C300 II in some ways.

I always thought the 1DC was way "beyond Canon's imagination" for 2012. Well, except for the $12K+ price, which is very much part of their unique "imagination." An 8K DSLR is possible for a price, but it will be more expensive than the original 1DC considering the current price of implementing such tech.

I agree that the 1DC is a truly special camera, but the C200's release means there won't be any 1DC II, at least not this year. It would be hard to sandwich a 1DC II between the 1DX II and C200 without undermining sales for those two cameras. As a result, Canon DSLR shooters will have to content themselves with the 5DIV or 1DXII in the meantime. The more interesting question is what they might do with the commercial release of their 8K sensor designed for their higher-end cinema EOS cameras. Last time in 2012, the 1DC and C500 were released within a few months of one another as Canon's first 4K video offerings. Will we see a similar pattern with Canon 8K: one experimental and revolutionary DSLR and one pro cinema camera?

I cannot wait for "Apprentice: White House Edition."

Lovely cinematography as always Ed. The grade is similar to some of your very filmic MX footage (the Cuba one is particularly gorgeous, in case people here have not seen it): It's a different kind of look for the F65, as I don't see that type of desaturated look (in this case, with a heavy teal/blue modern grade) applied to this camera very often.

Canon will typically impose minimum inventory/stock numbers on dealers when approving of any camera price drop. This means B&H had a certain number of 1DCs to sell at that price, as the minimum they would have to take from Canon would be something like 10 units at the very least for such a popular store. Once they sold out, the price went back up.

Ed, you can watch the C500 in action in the current IMAX film, A Beautiful Planet, which was shot entirely on the C500 (and the 1DC for time-lapse): There is also an interesting article in American Cinematographer on why they chose the C500's uncompressed 4K RAW over other cinema cameras that they tested: http://www.theasc.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/AC-A-Beautiful-Planet.pdf

Yes, ISO and WB are set or "baked-in" to a certain degree, as seen in Canon's white paper: Of course, WB can be easily manipulated in the RMF files in post as with any RAW format. As for ISO, like the Panasonic Varicam, the C500 employs analog gain control (as Policar already mentioned on page one of the thread). Combined with its noise performance, this allows for outstanding low-light abilities for a cinema camera. I'm not here to defend Canon's, Sony's, RED's or any other manufacturer's definition of "RAW." I would only point out that Canon's Cinema RAW offers some unique features: Compared with conventional approaches, this image processing chain results in improvements and advantages in the following areas relevant to the four color data streams: color separation, demosaicing, resolution, and anti-aliasing. This is why some have noted that the C500's 4K resolves a very high level of detail per pixel (something that is also true of the C300 II). Moreover, like ARRIRAW, Canon Cinema RAW reaches an insanely high data rate. In fact, a Canon RMF file delivers more data per frame (over 11 MB) than almost any other 4K RAW format with the exception of ARRIRAW in open gate, which matches Canon’s data rate of 11 MB per frame, but at a lower resolution than 4K. For these reasons, and despite fixing ISO at the time of shooting, Canon RAW is a formidable format that was apparently designed as the antithesis to Redcode, which has relatively low data rates, no analog gain, poor ISO/noise performance, and high compression in the green color channels. In this way, you can think of Canon RAW as diametrically opposed to Redcode. The latter has its own advantages of course in terms of reducing storage and unlocking 5K, 6K and 8K recording in a very portable camera package and easily manageable RAW format for editing. Nevertheless, I would say that RED has a lot more to answer for than Canon when it comes to defining its format as "RAW," considering how much sensor data is discarded in Redcode compression.