Django

Lol I know I’ve been going back & forth a lot with purchase decisions but this will probably be a fall purchase (maybe even early as next month). R5 mk2 is expected in 2024 and R5Cii 2025 so those aren’t really a concern to me. Besides R5 & R5C are already at an attractive retail & used price so I will not be waiting for replacement models to purchase. What really put me back in the Canon camp was trying out R5 with latest FW on a shoot. I also played around with a Z8 and got mixed feelings although I really like the specs and the files. So in the end I’m still not at all sure what way to go, hence all my questions and research about R5 vs R5C. I really want the R5C for all the cine features, codecs, no record limit, 8K60p and the fan.. but I’m afraid I’ll miss IBIS and that the battery life may still be on the short side. R5 has IBIS and decent battery life plus I loved having C1 8K, C2 4K, C3 4K120 custom modes. But lack of exposure or magnification during recording, no shutter angle and the pain of editing 8K h265 files may push me towards R5C in the end.. Besides a good compromise might be R5C + R3 for handheld/run&gun/action shots. That’s my dream combo!

Thanks although some of those solutions don't seem available any longer (anker 45w power bank). Again what are the exact 8K60p power requirements? I know we've discussed this earlier in the thread but I don't feel like going through +35 pages lol. As for the Z8, it is great that it can power 8K60p from its internal battery but yeah I've seen some 8K tests getting the camera to overheat in 10mn which is a concern. Other test show 25mn. I think the Z9 doesn't overheat and with second hand prices being around what a Z8 costs I think Z9 might be actually be a better choice if you don't mind the weight too much.

So still currently only USB-C battery solution in order to use for 8K50p? What's the voltage needed and what options are out there?

As others have stated the AI/computational stuff you get from phones, drones etc shouldn't be compared to what you're getting raw from a mirrorless cam. It's definitely going to take more work in post and more effort during shooting to get there. FYI Z9 recently got a 4.0 FW update that adds a low (100) ISO mode to N-log. Early reports suggest noise is gone. This firmware should be coming very soon to Z8 and hopefully be a bit of a game changer when it comes to noise issues with N-log.

Here is a short blurb about Canon's various IS systems: https://www.canon.co.uk/pro/infobank/image-stabilisation-lenses/ I really think IBIS + OIS grants excel results on Canon systems. Not a big fan of EIS in general as it crops the image but IBIS+OIS+EIS is almost gimbal like. I agree with @gt3rs about sensor size + focal length having a great influence on IS. Not to mention action cams are rarely handheld so really not a great basis for comparison. Anyways, another IS question for those owning R5 & R5C: do you notice a big difference in stills? The image results I got from the R5's IBIS + RF 24-70mm f2.8 IS were just so sharp even at lower shutter speeds. According to that Canon article that specific combo enables 8-stops of IS. Should I expect much worst photography results if I were to go with R5C? I'm just a little worried because at 45MP sharpness really matters.

Yeah I'm interested in knowing how R5+IBIS compares to R5C + lens IS mostly for handheld static shots and some slow movement. The best results I've had so far with the 24-70mm is with R3 thanks to that bodies weight distribution and ergonomics with the vertical grip. Would love to know your assessment of the R5 vs R5C with the RF 35mm IS. Let me know here when you try that! Good to know about the IBIS! I do think its great that Z8 can lock its IBIS on & off. Best of both worlds depending on situations. The wobble effect you get on wide angle lenses can ruin shots so that is very handy feature to have. As for video AF, I only had a short time with the Z8 but I did try a few AF speed settings and again my experience was that the AF was a little sluggish in certain situations compared to Sony/Canon. It is still very usable, just not as blazing fast & smooth as the competition. Especially compared to R3 which has the fastest, stickiest eye-AF I've witnessed.

Just sharing my likes/dislikes about the Z8. No camera is perfect and I may very well warm up to it with more time spent with it, so take my comments with a grain of salt. Its definitely a very high-spec tool at an aggressive price point. Again I love the body size, the stacked sensor, the high-resolution, and the codecs. Camera just seems to have some quirks both in operation and output. Yeah RF isn't a good solution for third-party lenses. But the native ones are really top level albeit pricey and you can adapt certain lens systems to RF. 45mp is obviously great for substantial cropping. Didn't realise how useful it was until I started messing around with +45mp files. Now I can't get enough it.. And yes R5C has DIS that you can combine with OIS. Found this video about it:

Yeah I meant proper exposure tools like on R5C. By the way to those that own both is R5C more rugged build quality than R5? Like FX3 vs A7S3? Or is it really the same body, screen etc as R5 with just an added fan?

So I've now tested out the Z8 and like I said in that thread, I got mixed feelings about it. I love the body size, build quality, LCD hinge system.. but I hate the UI, menus, layout. N-Log is a can of worms with currently horrible rec709 LUTs that kill DR and boost saturation. Camera has weird quirks like no IBIS when adapting certain lenses and other options that get greyed out depending on settings. The AF is a little sluggish. Etc. I guess to me its a great camera on paper but not really for me in actual use (I've found that to often be the case with Nikon cams). So for the moment I've written it off and am back on Canon/Sony bandwagon. I recently did a hybrid shoot with an R5 with latest OS and actually really enjoyed the shooting experience & the files. Camera felt super snappy, didn't skip a beat. Decent battery life & didn't run into any overheat issues. The downsides are the camera feels a little cheap, 30mn video limit sucks for long form content, no exposure tools, no magnification during recording, 8K h26x is hard to edit on an M1. R5C has all those video options plus 8K50p, LUT support etc. So the camera is back on my list. The battery life now being a non-issue in XFAVC is a huge plus for me so I guess the only real downside is lack of IBIS. That's kind of a big one. That said I did my entire hybrid shoot with the RF 24-70mm F2.8 which I thought was quite a phenomenal lens and it has IS. This RF lens was quite an eye opener, and I might just retire my EF lens collection and start investing in RF. So my question is, would the R5C + RF 24-70mm be usable for handheld video? Would I be missing the R5's IBIS much? I really just don't want micro-jitters and hate using post stabilisation. Another Canon option is the R3. I've played around with it quickly and the ergonomics are just perfect. The video IQ is superb but the stills are "only" 24MP and I really love the 45MP files from the R5/R5C. Just feels weird paying more for less, even though the stacked sensor does bring other benefits. I guess an R3+R5C would be my dream combo, maybe I should start saving for them!

Any Nikon Z user know if/why IBIS turns off when adapting certain lenses? I didn't even know that IBIS could be locked off on mirrorless cameras, good feature actually, just sucks that it auto locks when using the FTZ adapter (but maybe only on vintage AIS or non Nikon lenses). Yeah I tried Flat (its also what I used to shoot with back in my D750 days). Its a good baked-in profile but I'm used to shooting Log for grading. By the way Z8/Z9/R3 are available in Paris. There is even a program in certain Fnac stores where you can borrow a cam/lens combo for 48h, I don't have the full details yet as I'm currently travelling but will get you the info if you're interested.

Had a quick go at the Z8 the other day. Shot some 8K ProRes test footage with a vintage Nikkor AIS lens and the Z 35mm f1.8. I have mixed feelings about it. For some reason the IBIS was disabled on the AIS lens, not sure if that's the case with all adapted lenses or not but it was rather disapointing (VR and EIS was greyed out). That said, it was pretty glorious seeing that vintage lens in 8K for the first time! N-Log is kind of a can of worms. Footage is pretty noisy at ISO800 and yeah the provided Nikon LUTS really do suck, horrible highlight roll-off that kills the DR. The info is there though so you'll get better results going manual. The menus and button control is probably the worst from any system, sorry Nikon it really does my head in. Also the grip felt sticky which is not cool. The size/weight is just right, love the LCD hinge system and overall build quality. Just a quick first impression so I guess take what I say with a grain of salt. I do like the camera despite my few gripes and might even try renting it to spend more time with it as again the menu/UI takes a lot of getting used to.

Yeah it ticks all my boxes as well. 6K60p compressed RAW is a nice middle ground. All day battery with no overheat is ace. I'm sure it would be the perfect pro hybrid wedding cam for your needs too. Combined with an R6ii that's a killer combo. Pricey for sure but there are some really good bargains on grey market (4700€) if you can go that route. Then again who knows what the competitors will drop next but in that pro integrated battery grip design CaNikon are really the only two brand options..

R3 is a beast! Much lighter indeed than Z9 or other camera + grip. Ergonomics are imo second to none (I hate that Nikons don't have a thumbwheel). Joystick and thumbprint reading sensor. The AF has the standout "eye control AF" feature or "Mind-controlled AF" as Ken Rockwell calls it lol. Canon AF in general remains my favourite AF system (Sony may detect a tad bit better but I like having control of my AF system and Canon has the most intuitive AF select system imo). Stacked sensor means 9.5ms RS in 6K (vs 14.5ms on Z8/Z9). 6K60p RAW internal and with C-RAW Light the bitrate is only 1800Mbps vs a whopping 5780Mbps for 8K60p RAW on the Z8/Z9. Better LOG options and more LUTs in Canon land than Nikon. But of course Nikon has other specs up its sleeve, mainly 8K/45MP. Lens wise, the RF 24-70mm f2.8 is same weight as the Lumix version (900g) plus it has lens IS which neither Panny or Sony have. By the way the older EF version is 800g and the Sigma Art EF 24-70mm f2.8 is way more affordable than mirrorless versions. Funny because all this makes me realise the R3 (plus optional R5C/R6ii/C70) really makes most sense for me even though I've been considering switching systems..

Yeah the A7RV delivers stunning stills but the video is just way too crippled to call it a proper high-end hybrid. CaNikon have it with the R3/Z8/Z9 but with Sony you gotta go spend 7K for the A1's stacked sensor to get that type of performance and you're still left with an average heat dissipation consumer body and no internal RAW! Panny doesn't do internal RAW either but at least is starting to include ProRes.

Sony seems like a bit of a step backwards for your needs. Again A7RV has cropped video, no RAW, high RS & FX3 has 12MP stills and 4K max resolution. Other than compact body/lenses you'd be compromising quite a bit for a complete system change. Nikon Z8/Z9 ticks those boxes, so does Canon R3/R5C. FF everything, internal RAW, 6K/8K, high-res stills.

I've been messing around with the A7RV and I gotta say I really love it for those 61MP stills. Insane cropping power and resolves close to medium format. However the 8K is a little misleading, its got a 1.24x crop, maxes out at 25p, low bitrate 4:2:0 and a horrible 36ms rolling shutter. Alongside overheating that mode is almost unusable. 4K also has a crop by the way. The Z8/Z9, R3/R5C blow it out of the water with no crop, internal RAW and fast read-out sensors. That being said I'm still thinking of going all-in with Sony. FX3/FX30/FX6/A7S3/A7RV.. even the ZVE1.. pretty complete compact body line-up and of course the lenses to go along with. You do have to say goodbye to RAW or high resolution video specs. Its tough because I'm still pretty invested in Canon glass and the R3/R5C/C70 ticks a lot of boxes but the closed RF mount is a concern plus I'm also tired of being split up in multiple ecosystems, just doesn't make sense.

Would love to see some Z8/Z9 (RAW) footage with some nice adapted cine/vintage glass. Biggest appeal to me keeps being that versatile Z mount.

+4K60p in h26x 10-bit 422 will overheat on any large sensor mirrorless without active cooling. So if you need unlimited recording in those settings just spend the extra $400 and get the FX30 with built-in fan etc. That said the thermals don't seem that bad, GU got +2h in 4K30p and 1h30 in 4K60p. I do like that Fuji thought of a cooling fan add-on. Sony goes for the segmentation model.

Pretty good value for $1400. Basically FX30 specs in an Alpha body with added A7RV/ZV-E1 AI chip/specs plus mechanical shutter & EVF. Thermals seem pretty decent too. For pro video I'd still probably spend the $400 extra for the pro FX body, I/O, dual card slots and fan but this is a solid APS-C hybrid. Sony's on a roll with all these camera releases!

For hobby/amateur/travel use I’d forget both those pro options and just go with the new ZV-E1: you get the same great A7S3/FX3/FX6 full frame sensor and image quality plus easy framing and AF thanks to AI chip.. for half the price of an FX3. With the money saved you can invest in quality lenses. If you like Carl Zeiss, I recommend the Batis range.

No multi custom settings is wild on a hybrid although not uncommon on most cine cams which the R5C video OS is based upon. Great that battery life was finally addressed and seems to be adequate.. for XFAVC at least! At this point I wonder if a Z8 is not a better solution for 45MP / 8K60p RAW hybrid? You loose some of the nice video assist tools and LUT support but gain a stacked sensor, ProRes options, custom settings and long battery life.

@markr041 What are your overall thoughts on the camera vs the Sony's you've been using heavily for the last few months?

double post

Just saying there exists proper Panasonic cine cameras with V-Log etc. An L-mount BMD cam would have different log and color science so not really an upgrade path to Panny users imo. I do wish/hope Panny comes out with an (L-mount) EVA-2 or something..