Katrikura

How I would love to see uncompressed 14bit Cinema DNG on newer Canon.
Perhaps the R7, would be a perfect candidate.
Let's hope they focus efforts on supporting the stuff beyond the DSLRs and older EOS M 👍

According to a book, Dutch company ASML got into a big fight with Nikon a few years back.
They both make lithography tools for semiconductors industry. ASML's optics supplier is Zeiss.
To pressure Nikon into a settlement, they had to take the patent fight to them in cameras.
So ASML got Zeiss to make them a camera.
It also doubled as a marketing adventure, shown off in stores but rarely really ever in stock.
Until one day this popped up on my radar, with the serial number XXX XXX.
The AF wasn't working, or the manual focus (fly by wire), lens stuck at macro 30cm.
So I cracked it open, mopping sweat off forehead.
Inside is 256GB SSD, final release model was bumped to 512GB.
Android 6, with Zeiss test suite of apps onboard including FCC certification test suite 🙂
A music player.
A Dutch full frame 36 megapixel sensor with some analogue colour.
A Zeiss 35mm F2 lens (but different optics to the Sony RX1), 4K video (Super 35mm crop) and an EVF.
And some weird prototype issues. I'll make a YouTube video on it.






Sample shot
And I still have no idea how I fixed the AF.
Just wiggled the lens and sensor ribbon cables a bit and it started working properly, but there was no sign of either cable being loose in the first place!
It is quite a fun tool, and a bit different. Android is decently snappy on it, the camera app is well designed, the physical dials are lovely but it doesn't have a joystick or command dials... So a lot is on the touch screen, but it's well done.
Shall I root it?
Update to 3.0 production firmware? (Risks bricking it).
Given the rarity factor... I probably won't!!

those photogs are veterans with 30+ years experience, all have best nikon, canon, pentax, etc lenses. been there. 
 
ml raw on 5d3 can do 10 bit uhd raw. ml raw at 10 bit and above especially at 14 bit, is vert different from typical mirrorless raw or 10 bit preres h.265. been there. 14 bit raw itself is unparalleled even now. 
 

I could be wrong that I feel like we've arrived at a place where video quality is technically pretty solid across the board in new gen mirrorless cams. But if we're talking about R50V vs 5D MKIII ML RAW, it's less about better and more about 'different'. The 5D MKIII ML RAW definitely offers something aesthetically different than the R50V, but all things considered, I don't know that it offers better video quality, overall. 

From what I've seen and comparing to my own 10bit footage, Magic Lantern Raw on Eos M and 5DII/ III looks magical under natural light despite less dynamic range and much less resolution. So I am exited about any news from ML. I am referring to the pure joy for the image. It is not an observation in regards to full time content production.
No, no, no! @eatstoomuchjam No 10bit GM5 flimsyness but a solid and small 10bit GX85 body. Thank you, Panasonic!:) GM5 feels hollow and viewfinder is very tiny. Sorry, but no! 10bit GX, yes please.:)
@stephenDoesn't the 5DIII allow liveview on the screen, just like the EOS M?

I already do it daily, just not here... ; ) Well, I think it's natural Andrew has a scope for his forum on his favourite tools. Nothing against, I actually share his love as I'm sure everyone here do.
The fact we have now a sub-forum especially dedicated to these other tools only bring those people there really interested to look for information on them, so I believe such approach ends helpful.
So far, a new thread I started here 24 hours ago has only about 1/6 of the views compared to one in the main section. It really narrows down the audience to those specifically interested in these tools, which is kind of a bonus.
 
Yet regarding your comment about energy drinks, I suggest it’s better to finish with water instead ;- )

There's also something else to add as point I guess, the fact they tend to each year launch a new version à la GoPro business model and they're not always a jump as far as specs/performance concerns.
Despite the fact sometimes they bring some valuable tool as said above — it's the case of X5 this year, as for instance.
 
Osmo Pocket 3 is yet another (revolutionary) case study...
(I seriously don’t get how every member here keeps forgetting to carry a unit — especially considering it should be second nature to pocket it as soon as we stand up!)
and IMHO is not even an action camera... 
(well, DJI has named another series on purpose, so I guess I am not so distant from reality).
 
Without mention, it's all about the content produced, no less : )
 
360º or even 180º VR cameras can often be used as action cams, but that’s not their primary purpose I tend to see.
Stereo 3D is there to remind us (they’re not listed up there, so I guess they don’t really fit in this category ; )
Still, it makes sense to include the 360º devices here, as they now fall within the scope of the discussion.
 
A single thread is useful to not spread too much in many directions when the debate on these small devices can be focused and enriched here.
 
Even though drones are somewhat related for their most frequent users, they’re still a separate focus of attention as matter of fact. They could be excluded from this discussion due to factors like legal implications, only to provide an example of something not necessarily related to this subject. Plus IIRC there’s already sufficient information on them here too.
 
If the idea is to place it as action cam style filmmaking/shooting, I think it makes all the sense to gather all together in the same place.
Let alone it’s the webmaster’s call in the end so everything’s in order, we have a unique spot/thread to safely post it now :- )
 
- EAG

This is not so much about the quality of the image but more to do with the quality of the posts on here.
Historically, the action cameras have produced a LOT of spam on here either directly from new members setting up accounts to pimp them or some very suspicious stuff from existing members.
Having a single repository for them makes sense to me in the same way that there is one for lenses.
If people have an interest in new developments (as indeed I do myself) then there is a specific thread to subscribe to without numerous individual ones popping up that then have to be curated and assessed.
Of course you could argue that this could then be true for a lot of topics but the historical context of dubious spammy shite for those is different.

Joking about ponies aside, the line can be a bit fuzzy sometimes.  Does the Osmo Pocket 3 count as an action camera?  There's some crossover in that use and using it for filmmaking.  The RX0 uses the same sensor as the RX100 V and a 24mm equivalent rectilinear lens.  The Insta360 One R 1" edition has a sensor of the same size and also has a 24mm rectlinear lens.
Obviously we're not dumb and can easily tell an action camera from a non-action camera so I'm not trying to make that case - just making the point that as the years go on, they're increasingly capable filmmaking tools and increasingly useful to have on set.

Red bull might have something to say about that, It would seem to me that they have made a truckload of money off the back of extreme sports shooting as well as selling a few more cold drinks in the process.  I suspect its also kept a few camera men / editors in a job as well. It may not be your "thing" and definitely its a niche area but it still videography and worthy of a thread i think.
Like eatstoomuchjam and Emanuel have said, your house your rules and we appreciate that you opening up this thread. No idea where the next david lynch or Spielberg is coming from but there's a good chance one of his / her cameras  will be an action camera of some type to cut their teeth on. 
I was blown away by Chris Benchetler' chasing el nino series from like ten years ago. amazing scenes of winter  wonderlands, great skiing and huge jumps with alot of gopro footage. Inspired enough to buy a gopro anyway lol. In hindsight i suspect there was probably a film crew with your typical camera gear doing all the normal stuff with a few skiers wearing gopros. If i was more cynical i'd say very clever marketing by red bull and gopro, however still very impressive visually.
I dropped and cracked a two day old iphone 13 pro max while documenting the local roads after the last big storm / flash floods we had. Really wish i'd gone out that day with the gopro... 
 
Hats off to anyone who gets out there and does stuff.   Be it a wedding, forest trail or car show and I'm brand agnostic, so use what you got.  

I produce documentary and audiovisual work in the university setting. Until now, I have always used action cameras such as GoPros; I recently added the DJI Pocket 3 to film behind-the-scenes material. On more than one occasion, these cameras have saved me from a mishap. Not long ago, while recording testimonies from a prominent researcher in a humid environment, the main camera’s lens fogged up and the subject’s time was very limited. So I pulled out the DJI Pocket 3, placed it next to the main camera, and shot in 10-bit D-Log. They really liked the result. I also use it for B-roll, since I can quickly position it in hard-to-reach places, taking advantage of its gimbal stabilization and autofocus to achieve excellent results and save time.

I produce documentary and audiovisual work in the university setting. Until now, I have always used action cameras such as GoPros; I recently added the DJI Pocket 3 to film behind-the-scenes material. On more than one occasion, these cameras have saved me from a mishap. Not long ago, while recording testimonies from a prominent researcher in a humid environment, the main camera’s lens fogged up and the subject’s time was very limited. So I pulled out the DJI Pocket 3, placed it next to the main camera, and shot in 10-bit D-Log. They really liked the result. I also use it for B-roll, since I can quickly position it in hard-to-reach places, taking advantage of its gimbal stabilization and autofocus to achieve excellent results and save time.

The best cam is the one you bring and can shoot with. No other camera industry segment has so many upgrades as this one from so many sources. Finally, a place here where we can post it without feeling or sound intrusive in the middle of our sacred college of filmmakers.
EAG :- )

As there are too many separate threads and topics about cameras that have fisheye lenses and small sensors, i.e. anything that goes on the end of a selfie stick, I will combine them all here and anything that gets posted separately will be moved to this post.

DJI just dropped prices for the Ronin 4D series.
The 6K version is now $4,999 (down from $6,800)
The 8K version is now $9,999 (down from about $13,000)
The raw license just went from $979 to $1.  Wish I hadn't bought it just a few months ago, but that's great news for existing owners who haven't bought it yet.  Note that with the base 6K package, the RAW license is likely to be useless without buying an overpriced DJI ProSSD ($800 for 1TB).
https://www.cined.com/dji-ronin-4d-price-drop-raw-license-now-1-instead-of-979/

If I'm guessing, I'd say that DJI are both aiming for a big sales bump with all of the press the R4D has been getting lately (especially with Adolescence) as well as finally undercutting the Komodo-X, C80, and Ursa Cine 12K.
I'd still say that it wouldn't be my choice if I only had one camera, but since I got it, it's been to set with me for every short film that I've worked on and I've used it every time.  The image from it is really nice, especially from the 8K.

Now I am in no way comparing the 5Diii with ML Raw to your more expensive cinema cameras, but I do agree. The first time I looked at the screen after installing Magic Lantern onto my 5Diii, I saw something a little nicer than anything I had seen on an LCD before. With a few very minor tweaks in post and I was able to get images I had no business getting with my skill set.
When I tried the same thing with the FP, I didn't see it and I wasn't able to get the same level as easy in post as it was with my 5Diii. Weirdly, I noticed it more with the 4K 8bit cDNGs than I did with the 12bit... although I admit that the 12bit is a superior image... if only Sigma would turn off the damn NR in their raw files. Anyway, it was definitely easier to see than any run of the mill mirrorless I have used since, though. Although the R7 amazes me in some ways. From what I have heard from various people online, @Mattias Burling included, that quality is there with Redraw, Redcode... whatever it's called.
That doesn't mean that modern mirrorless cameras aren't capable of creating amazing images. They obviously are. With the advent of raw codecs and post workflows, I agree that the gap is getting smaller, but...
That said, I have no business owning a Komodo, so it doesn't mean much to me and more than likely, depending on what the R6iii looks like, I'll probably buy a Z6iii next... of course I have been tempted by the FX30, so I may give that a shot in the meantime. 

Just watched the first episode.
Very good stuff.
The single take is extraordinary but almost seamlessly unnoticed at same time.

Everyone is talking about how they used the Ronin 4D on the "Adolescence" and how well it did. I bet they only used it in like 4 shots though.

Watched the whole thing in one sitting, really remarkable. Really solid acting from everyone involved and the 'one take" episodes were very well done. I almost want to watch again and just focus on the camera the whole time. There were  some interesting choices with where to have the various episodes take place and to have to think about the limitations of space and time that come with this style of storytelling. It's normally easy to manipulate these elements in traditional filming and editing so here it's fun to see the creative use of transitions and blocking. 

There is no support (currently at least) for USB-C recording on the Ursa Cine 12K.
The situation for CF Express Type B has been clarified by BM on their latest support bulletin here for approved cards :
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/support/faq/59051
Long story short is that they have nothing on there that goes above 45fps at 12:K 3:2 BRAW 8:1.
There is a data calculator on the product page for the different permutations.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicursacine
However, there is also the caveat that for any frame rate above 60fps (at any resolution) the camera requires powering from a 24.8v B-Mount battery.
So for anyone looking at shooting at the highest frame rates and resolutions, both the Media Module and a B-Mount are non-negotiable so an additional £2K should be budgeted.
That is still an almighty good deal for a camera with this performance though and I think the value proposition of the Media Module is good enough to mean it might well be considered an essential purchase by a lot of people anyway.
One thing that I find intriguing is that BM list a mount adapter for Hasselblad HC lenses but offer no more information about it at the moment.
I still have a set of HC lenses that are orphans after the demise of my H3D-39ii and I'm very curious about how they have managed to get electronic control of them.
Currently, only Hasselblad themselves in their H to X adapter and FujiFilm (the original manufacturer of the HC lenses) in their H to GFX adapter have products that do this and whether it is limited to aperture control but also encompasses focus control is undocumented.
I'm not saying that this compatibility would make me buy one but, bearing in mind it has a dedicated Stills button, then being able to bring back a collection of fantastic set of lenses (albeit with a smaller FOV) that work more or less natively with a 100mp body that also happens to shoot RAW video would be worth considering.
I'm not being serious of course as that would be an insanely flimsy justification to buy one *
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
* Note from wife - Yes he is being serious.
 
 
 

Official EOSHD chat thread for the arts and cinema.

Great idea! @Andrew Reid There are so many cool people I enjoyed to interact with on this forum. So many cool posts. I would love some of the older discussions to be continued and new topics to be explored in the Eoshd spirit we all cherish. We could share more of the cool findings and lens explorations and footage like we have been doing in the past. My Konica 35-100mm F2.8 needs to be showcased or my 16mm lens set which has been in use for the SI2K from Pillefilm in Cologne until they quit business three years ago and so on.
Sharing footage has become less pleasant though with all that datamunching these days, especially when it comes to footage with people and family. It's a challenge we are facing. In addition to the fact that vimeo as we know it has practically dissolved.
Maybe i should get a dog like gunpowder which people might enjoy to see being filmed, of course only until @Mattias Burling  is coming back. Since we are at it, I would love to see @Ed David swinging a Cinealta F3 around again with his Libatique handheld camera skills.
Like said, great idea, Andrew. Maybe another 8bit challenge would be lovely too. Ed David putting the internal 8bit Slog of the F3 to a test. I could do the same. Anyone still with a C100 or og C300 around?:)

So the forum is pretty good at the moment thanks to some spicy discussions, it would be boring if we all agreed all the time, but I also think we should encourage people to come back - big names from before like Mattias Burling , Dave Maze, they are missed. Maybe we could occasionally drop them a note to say so. I can't promote the forum myself, it just looks like I am spamming people with my blog.
Maybe that's where you all come in 🙂
Would some of you be willing to post a few links here and there in popular Reddit groups, on DPReview and on social media groups?
It would supercharge the place and get us noticed more... Then we'd have some great discussions with new people, and regain some control over the camera community in an independent way, rather than everything being hoovered up by the big US social media giants who are opening supporting a fascist regime at the moment.
Never been a better moment to get our independence back from social media.
Mark Zuckenberg and those like him are pure evil.
The forum way is a better way.
It offers everyone here a higher profile and higher involvement.
The better our content, the better the discussions, the more people will come...
I know a lot of forum posts have to reference other people's talking point or content, so a topic can devolve into lots and lots of URLs to social media, or YouTube video embeds.
But rather than have rules around this, which I don't want to do, it would be great if we could encourage people to join who will use the forum a bit like having their own blog - Posting original hands-on opinions and content about cameras and shooting... Our own insight is better than constantly referring to that of others - It would be good for the community.
Just some thoughts and open to more ideas too about how to grow this rather nice place that we've got.

This guy has talent...
This is shot on the Sony a1 and an RX100, and it's very nice.
But then a funny thing happened...
I discovered his Super 16mm stuff and liked it even better, although you have to appreciate it on a big screen for the texture, and not a phone.
Film, being film has an imperfect nature.
So more emotive.
Now in the current digital camera landscape, full frame is king. And for a good reason.
But what if you could have both Kodak Vision3 Super 16mm and full frame in one camera...
Now, I considered the OM-1 as a Super 16mm 4K camera, because I very much liked the E-M1 Mark II since forever. The OM-1's OM-LOG however has a bit of a thin tonality, and is it a bit tricky to get looking right. Lovely ergonomics and EVF though.
Now the Sony a1, has the resolution to do a 4K Super 16mm crop (close to, it's actually Micro Four Thirds at 2x-ish which is good enough for most c-mount lenses longer than 25mm like the Kern Switar 26mm F1.1, work of art that it is).
The a1 I had but ended up selling to somebody far richer, because I feared it would depreciate from 5 grand to something like £1. This hasn't happened yet, as the new one is 7 grand. Anyway, sod Sony and their pricing... Doesn't shoot internal RAW anyway.
Now N-RAW, BRAW, Canon RAW, I have tried them all, and to my eye at least they all look like H.265.
There is just something so smooth and perfect about the modern faux RAW that it kinda defies the point, RAW should be raw and not processed. Those codecs are heavily processed and the file sizes are ridiculous.
There's only one RAW format that has come close to FILM to me and that has always been Cinema DNG.
Starting way back with the original BMCC and Ikonoskop, uncompressed 2K Cinema DNG.
Following on from that the miracle of Magic Lantern RAW video, with the 5D II going from some very dodgy 1080p H264 to the best ever looking 1080p Cinema DNG RAW which still stands up today for tonality, grain, texture, micro contrast, motion cadence and colour... you know, all that stuff which gets chucked away in N-RAW!
Then the 5D Mark III upped the ante to 3.5K RAW eventually, at 24fps in 10bit. The drop to 10bit didn't hurt it much. A little noisier in the shadows, but worth it for the huge resolution bump from a 1:1 sensor readout, which did away with the moire or aliasing without the need for a Mosaic Engineering AA filter.
Then the Sigma Fp came along, but the first model has two drawbacks. The first is that it doesn't have the resolution for Super 16mm crop in 4K. The second is that the 4K RAW appears to be binned. It's a bit funky looking.
Now the Sigma Fp-L has a 9K sensor instead... a whopping 60 megapixel. But I have not used it much... the reason being, I haven't quite found a lens that really suits it...
Then I thought, well it has the best crop modes of any camera, and stays in those modes when you cycle the power or switch between stills and cine... Perfect for C-mount, Super 16mm stuff?
It has a nice oversampling in these modes, from 1.3x crop to 2x... Sampling upwards of 7K down to 4.8K, which makes for some very finely textured UHD Cinema DNG footage, superior indeed to that of the first model.
(It also adds into the mix phase-detect AF but it doesn't work very well)
Now the Fp-L I thought could work well with my C-mount stuff and indeed, it fucking does.
But I also think of adding a Panasonic OIS lens to the mix, for handheld run and gun Cinema DNG.
So the 28-200mm looks attractive and yes, slow aperture but it's absolutely tiny.
This tiny-ness is very important for the Fp-L, as it feels naff with big heavy lenses.
And the Fp-L is very good in low light, because the sensor is enormous - the high megapixel count doesn't really hurt it, same with the Sony a1.
The 28-200mm also adds OIS... the all-important missing stabilisation on a non-IBIS camera.
So I think I have found the best full frame proper RAW camera that is best able to emulate the look of proper Super 16mm film and work with c-mount lenses, and offers you a full-frame walk-round zoom camera as well... And that means best of both worlds in one small affordable tool. Pop a 28mm F1.4 on there and it will also do a very good Leica Q3 impression.
We may moan about the lack of IBIS and LOG, but then a Bolex doesn't have these either.
And just think about the absolute massive pain it is to shoot with a Bolex and the expense you save going with a trusty Fp-L!
Food for thought.
....
The 8bit Cinema DNG to SD card is actually really good BTW

Cool topic! I look forward to seeing what you come up with. As you probably know, I have both the 5D Mark iii and the FP. In a lot of ways, they're redundant. I even use the same process and settings to render the 4K cDNG files to ProRes for editing/color in FCPX. The 4K helps with the FP. Some vintage lenses, most of what I own, are just too soft on the 5D.
But I agree that there's some kind of funkiness with the FP's image. I think it's processed a little in camera with NR and/or sharpness. No way to know that for sure, though. I tried using the 800 ISO trick, but I really didn't notice that much of a difference... I guess a stop or so in the highlights. I think the main benefit of the FP over the 5D3, for me, are the two ISOs for night/indoor shoots and due to the 4K it's sharper, so it has a more "modern cinematic" video look compared to the 5D3 which has more of a filmic look. 
I heard the s35 crop is actually better on the FP, but I didn't really notice much of a difference there either. I've been tempted to pick up a Canon 24mm 2.8 IS and the Sigma adapter and put it in s35 for a better handheld solution, but I haven't gotten around to it.
I completely agree about the 8bit 4K in camera raw!!! There's actually something so unique about the image.
Anyway, I look forward to some of your tests with the FP-L and c-mounts. I just sold my BMMCC, so I need to find a new camera for my c-mount lenses. I don't have anything too fancy like you do, but I do like them very much.