John Matthews

The S9 was a debacle from conception to their current marketing of the camera. Many of the people invited to the event were so surprised that they thought the S9 was completely thrown together at the last minute. Many have the theory that another camera that was meant for the event, but something went horribly wrong just before and it was too late to cancel. The result was a shotgun wedding called the S9.

For IQ, the S5ii is all about its 6k FF up to 30fps image. The rest isn't "bad" by any stretch, but there might be better FF cameras out there with full sensor readout. YouTube is NOT the way to look at the images either. In that video, I thought the Nikon looked really bad too. Most people here complain about the S5ii being too sharp and digital, not the contrary. You're absolutely right about the 120fps footage looking like a 2MP image because it actually is a 2MP image.

Exactly. That's what I was saying. I only mention the S5ii because that's what I have.

That's a good point and I have no experience with that. I only know that YouTube videos showing such are slow and tedious. If we're talking 2 minutes, why not? If we're talking 20-30 minutes, it would be highly annoying and I'd probably just rely on my phone. :(

180g and 190 euros. Ouch. Add a tripod and gimbal and you have what the S5ii has integrated into its body, minus the FF sensor and EVF. More and more I'm thinking that the X-M5 is a camera you just take it as it is or you upgrade, but don't get accessories because your final kit will twice the size of the camera with those features integrated, notably the S5ii.

You'd think it would be an easy change, but alas, they had way too many unsold bodies to allow that to happen. I will say the price is better on the older S5 model which I've seen go for 949 euros new. Given the choice between the an S5 and the X-M5 for $800, I might take the S5 on pure technology, but the X-M5 for size.

Nope, the GH6 got it too.

Yeah, I get it. I was just pointing out the discrepancy over what Sean said (who seemed to indicate they're flying off the shelves) and the very unofficial information I have. I know what the camera is capable of too. The frustration with Panasonic stems from the X-M5 release and their unwillingness to make a small camera for enthusiasts that isn't at pro-level prices. The S9 practically has no suitable lenses for it. For M43, they have a full ecosystem that is ready to go with many willing buyers. At this point, I can only believe they've left M43 to just high-end, big cameras. Please prove me otherwise Panasonic. It's possible- Fuji did it. Why not you?

No, there's hype, but it's fabricated. Panasonic gave all of them an S9 for free to use forever. Please find me a YouTube video of someone who purchased the S9 at its retail price. I've counted 11 reviews on B&H since its release. That tells me it's not exactly selling like crazy and like many have said- it's way too expensive for what it is.

I'm not sure Panasonic would go the OMDS route. For that, you'd need a buyer. However, I could see Lumix breaking away from Panasonic, even if it were still funded by them. They’re definitely feeling the pressure, and it seems to be getting worse with every announcement. I still haven’t seen a single YouTuber talk about the S9 who wasn’t given one for free. Has anyone? Yet, Sean from Panasonic says they’re selling like crazy, along with the G100. It must be an alternate universe thing. He’s mentioned on multiple occasions that Panasonic can easily maintain two lines (MFT and L-mount), but enthusiasts consistently join their livestreams and beg for a small MFT camera, to which he responds with 'yeah, that would be cool.' 'Cool' is about to attract buckets of new users, but it’s not going to be Panasonic—it’s Fuji. All they need is a big camera/small camera approach. The big one does everything, with all the lenses and accessories to support it. They’ve got that pretty much covered. But the small camera is seriously lacking to the point that the people who bought the big camera are starting to have doubts. It’s so frustrating. I don’t want to maintain two systems, but Panasonic might force me into doing just that—and I’m not even sure why.

If I'm honest, this Fuji announcement has pissed me off a bit with Panasonic. Frankly, the price and value tread deeply into the core of M43. Having Panasonic basically refuse to make anything and allowing Fuji to own the market says volumes about the current state of Panasonic. Let’s be clear: they’ve come out with ONE value proposition in the past year, and it was for pros (S5II/X). We’ve been begging for a newer M43 camera like the GM5 or GX9, and Panasonic continues to ignore us, despite having an ecosystem for those cameras. To add insult to injury, they come out with an overpriced S9, effectively moving the amateur price point to $1500. Oh, and by the way, we have a new BS 'lens' for you—a manual focus 26mm fixed f/8! What the hell? Now we have Fuji putting the amateur price point back to where it should be—$800. It’s time to lower the price of the S9, announce a new GX9-type camera, or say goodbye to that market.

Ah... for pro work, this camera definitely has the output, but not the "look" unfortunately. I don't do pro work, but I think there's an element of "looking" the part. It would require a lot of "hiding" with a rig; then, you'd spend tons of time removing it from said rig for personal use- might as well just buy a second one.

My feeling is that the X-M5 is a bit of a "trap camera" right now. The image coming off of it looks really good. Small lenses are available, not crazy expensive (but still pricey new). However, there is no telling that Fuji has the production chops to actually meet demand. I assume it will be a priority because there's much more of an upside selling this over their POS models.

There's this odd thing with the X-M5. It's either you just take it for what it is (great camera with no IBIS) or you go for the X-S20. But if you go for the X-S20, you might as well go for a lighter full-frame camera like the R8 (which also doesn't have IBIS). Now you're thinking I "need" full frame with IBIS and we're back at the S9 or S5ii. Round and round you go. It does seem IBIS is THE feature (but I contend the S9 is still lacking in other things).

Here’s the rub: imagine if the S9 and X-M5 were the same price. We’re essentially talking about ecosystem, mechanical shutter vs. none, and IBIS. For 'small and portable,' Fuji has the lenses, whereas Lumix is apparently struggling. I’d be okay without a mechanical shutter, but the problem is the X-M5 is significantly lighter and has one. Factor in the massive value proposition, and the X-M5 takes the cake. Panasonic has a serious problem, but its saving grace is the IBIS. You could argue that Panasonic is smaller because of the IBIS, whereas with Fuji, you either need to carry a tripod or a gimbal. Their EIS isn't cutting it for me. Still, I’d keep an eye out for Black Friday deals because Panasonic has traditionally been very competitive. The real question is: will there be any X-M5 cameras available by then, or will they all be sold out? My guess is they’ll all be gone. Looking at the two cameras, though, I prefer the Panasonic’s aesthetics. Since I already have the S5 II, I’d probably stick with Panasonic (if there’s a massive deal). Otherwise, the S5/S5D is still an option for a second camera.

Unless proven otherwise, it's safe to say that Panasonic had the S9 pegged to replace small M43 cameras. Everything GX is looking long old and massively out-speced. Sadly, Panasonic would have needed just 1 real pancake lens to make the transition to the S9 a reality, but apparently that was too much to ask. Now, Fuji, with the X-M5, is going to have small M43 cameras for lunch, spit them out and collect dust on the shelves of mpb. What a tremendous opportunity blown for Panasonic as they drive themselves and M43 into irrelevance.

Fuji is going to sell so many of these (if they can make them). It isn't even funny. 6k open gate S35 sensor, Mic and headphone jack, PDAF, fuji sims, 4k 60fps... If Panasonic ever had a plan to release a G9ii in a S9 body, now is the time.

So, no IBIS, but 350g-ish. That's still impressive. Where's your response Panasonic because this is way better than the G100? And it's actual camera with a hot shoe and mechanical shutter (to be confirmed), unlike the S9. The video specs are amazing for a $800 camera. ...just no IBIS (only electronic).

It would seem that I'm still here: Why did Panasonic move away from this? Interestingly, Ian Berry finally "settled" with the Olympus E-M1 iii, probably just before they sold to OMDS.

Yeah, not sure why there's the discrepancy. I also made a mistake with the S5ii. I accidentally gave the S5 weight. The S5ii is a little heavier: R8 + 24-50 is 671g S5ii + 18-40 is 895g S9 + 18-40 is 641g It should be noted that the S5ii combo is fully weather-sealed and it has an integrated fan. The other two have none of that. I have to hand it to Panasonic for give us a useful, weather-resistant kit lens at only 155g.

With the S5D, it was a similar situation to the G100D (notice the "D"). Both needed some sort of compliance with EU rules and both probably had significant stock left- too much to simply write it off. So yes, they're finding a way to make money with them. The other point is that the S5 has arguably better image quality over the S5ii due to less processing. I've never been able to verify that, but others say so. Lastly, it should be noted that I'm eating my own words in that Panasonic issued a recall on their latest firmware update to the S9. No one understand exactly what was going on, but it was enough to temporarily stop the rollout. The S5ii isn't affected apparently.

Any comments? I think these setups are competing rather well with each other: S9 + 18-40 = 641g S5ii + 18-40 = 869g R8 + 24-50 = 731g Mind you, only the S5ii and R8 are real cameras with EVF, mechanical shutter, and hotshoe.

10bit matters a ton in mathematics and on spec sheets IMO. It also matters a little more when shooting log. I've only seen a few examples of pixel-peeping on a moving image where you can really see. The rest seem more about the processing of the 8bit image. I think lenses offer more in the quality of the image than the math involved with 8 vs 10bit. Sorry, I'm not much help in this discussion.

So, it's a 9-20mm f/2.3-3.2 variable aperture lens equivalent at 155g. Would I get that for a small M43 camera? I’m not so sure. The current kit is the 12-32mm f/3.5-5.6 (with IS) at only 70g. I almost like this equivalency game in reverse—somehow, M43 is even more impressive. The GM5 already offers so much more than the S9, especially for photography, and it's way lighter and smaller. If we’re after small, Panasonic messed up the format. They should have put a GH7 sensor in there with a proper shutter and hot shoe. Again, it was a marketing snafu, in my opinion.