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I think that too, but I suspect Panasonic decided that it was more important to launch the S9 now (to some extent to ride the X100VI wave and pick up some sales from people who can't wait for one of those). The 26mm pancake feels to me like a 'we gotta have a really small lens, in a hurry, to sell or give away with the S9' rushed product - otherwise why would it be manual focus, given the target market? If it had been maybe F4 with AF, even if that meant it was a bit longer, I suspect the S9 launch YT videos might have been generally much more positive.

Good news - something else I'd expect to be rolled out to the S5ii/iix in due course.

Compared to D-Lux 7/LX100 ii, it's got OLED EVF and higher res rear screen, plus USB-C charging. See https://m.dpreview.com/news/3471020867/leica-continues-compacts-with-d-lux-8-featuring-four-thirds-type-sensor

C70 rolling shutter numbers from: https://www.optyczne.pl/48.4-Inne_testy-Canon_EOS_C70_-_test_kamery_Jakość_obrazu.html . 'Matrix' = Sensor (Google translation confusion...) There's also some DR tests towards the bottom of this page - https://www.optyczne.pl/48.3-Inne_testy-Canon_EOS_C70_-_test_kamery_Użytkowanie.html

I'd put it 50/50 an updated LX100 (as the Leica equivalent has recently been announced) or a successor to the S1R (related to the recent 60MP/8k video capable Leica SL3). Unless of course Panasonic is intending to leave the upmarket-looking cameras to Leica as part of their collaboration agreements and concentrating the Panasonic brand on the 'value' and video-orientated end of the market? In which case maybe a GH7 or S2H? I think a GX9-size/type m43 camera is least likely - it would be very close both in target market and release date to the S9, so what would be the point?

I think if camera makers were to take simultaneous capture seriously, then maybe they could record a 4k/6k/8k video stream at a normal video frame rate to one card slot, plus simultaneously a stream of reduced rate stills - e.g. 1/2 or 1/4 of video fps - at full (or near full) sensor resolution as compressed raw or high quality JPEG/HEIC images to the other card slot. That might get close to the best of both worlds. We've already got cameras like the S5ii that can record a 4k video stream plus simultaneously a reduced resolution 'proxy' video stream, so it I suspect some cameras already have enough processing power to do something like that.

Chris and Jordan say basically the same thing in the latest PetaPixel podcast (it's a 30 minute discussion from 16:39 )

I think the S9 marketing has worked then 😉. Talking of remembering releases for the wrong reasons, something I remember from the original OM-1 launch was OMDS getting a professional filmmaker to use it for a promo video. Except it also included BTS footage showing the camera (as far as I could tell) rigged out with non-OMDS/Olympus lenses, matte box, cage etc. mounted on a tripod for some of the time, surrounded by a crew. It was the very opposite of the 'rugged outdoor adventure' usage the rest of the OM-1 marketing was pushing. They should have got someone much closer to the target market to make the video promo content, using OMDS lenses and showing off how good it can be hand-held. Content that potential customers can relate to and think 'yes, I could do that and the camera looks a good tool for it'.

Actually, I suspect the S9 has got more coverage online and on social media than they hoped, even if it hasn't happened as planned. A lot of the adverse comments fueling this seem to be coming from a photography enthusiast base it isn't really targeted at anyway, and from video enthusiasts who seem disappointed it's not the S2H or S2R they'd prefer to be discussing. (Not referring to people on this forum) I don't really understand why so many people seem to be upset/annoyed by the S9 - it's just a consumer camera at the end of the day.

It happens to me all the time with wildlife photography/video... 🙂

Me too (so far). The problem is nicely illustrated by the FF Tamron 28-200mm f2.8-5.6 versus the m43 Oly/OMDS 12-100mm F4 Pro. The Oly is a great lens, both optically and to use, but it's pretty much the same size and weight as the cheaper the FF Tamron (which covers basically the same FOV as the Oly). Almost certainly the Tamron is far more optically compromised though.

The Panasonic S 28-200mm f4-7.1 Macro OIS lens probably gets closest, which at 93 mm long is about 6mm longer than the 20-60mm f3.5-5.6 and about 19mm longer than the m43 14-140mm f3.5-5.6. Another one is the E-mount Tamron 28-200mm f2.8-5.6 - about 25mm longer than the S 28-200mm and 40mm longer than the m43 14-140mm. But both of the FF 28-200mm are only x7 zooms, not the x10 the m43 lens gets you (but that is pretty small for its zoom range).

This is S9 versus some similar size MILC alternatives that you can buy new (from the left, ZV-E1, A7C ii, S9, OM-5, X-S20). Paired with what I think are the most compact mid-range zooms currently available from each camera manufacturer. The small size of the 28-60mm f4-5.6 lens on the ZV-E1 and A7C ii does rather make the point that the S9 really needs the upcoming 18-40mm lens (and maybe a compact 28-70mm or 35-100mm).

AFAIK, it doesn't have PDAF - it's basically an updated LX100 ii. Now a black and silver LX9 or LX1 with the 4/3 25MP sensor and processing from the G9ii (albeit with inevitably short recording times) would be far more interesting - 21MP stills, PDAF, lens OIS plus great EIS, no-crop 4k and excellent FHD? I'm not holding my breath though, even though I think that's what Panasonic really need to appeal to the upmarket end of the 'cute camera' market as well as the enthusiast compact market.

I agree. I would hope that most people are not gullible enough to believe that product reviews are 'warts and all' - they are subjective to varying extents, including what to put in and leave out. If you're getting paid to do it (including payments in kind, like 'free' trips) there is always going to be some 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' pressure around, even if it's not overt from the marketing dept. Magazines need advertising revenue, professional social media content creators need sponsorship income. It's nothing new...

It's interesting that the Leica D-Lux 8 has just been announced - https://www.dpreview.com/news/3471020867/leica-continues-compacts-with-d-lux-8-featuring-four-thirds-type-sensor - (looks like same 20MP 4/3 sensor as LX100 ii/D-Lux 7), but with OLED EVF and higher res rear screen, plus USB-C charging). The D-Lux series have always been Leica versions of Panasonic 'enthusiast' compacts, so might an LX100 iii be on the way (as LX100 ii was discontinued a while ago)?

I agree. My wife does artistic painting etc. as a fairly serious hobby (to the extent of exhibiting and selling it). At an exhibition it's usually the artists who are the most down-to-earth people in the room, as they know what's involved in creating, promoting and selling it - which is overall a lot of work (just like making decent video content is). Art critics are essentially product reviewers - they look at an art product and tell you what they think about it, sometimes implying 'meaning' in the work that I strongly suspect the original artist never intended (and who is probably dead so can't challenge the opinion). That's no different really to many other sales and marketing activities. He's on my subscription list and I watch some of his content if I'm in the mood for his style and I might be interested in the product he's talking about. But I think he's sometimes got an exaggerated sense of his importance, which grates a bit sometimes.

Exactly (GX85 + 14-140mm is my current travel cam). Versus the GX85 or GX9, you get 24MP stills, PDAF, a dual-gain sensor with good high-ISO performance, 4k50p/60p (albeit with a crop but so does the GX85/GX9 in 4k), a higher capacity battery, better stabilization, variable electronic zoom, a mic input, H264 and H26 10-bit recording at (in round numbers) 24/25/30/48/50/60p up to C4K, with higher resolutions up to 30p, at up to 4:2:2 and 200Mbps long-GOP. Viewed as a GX85 & GX9 successor, it makes a lot of sense, especially once the 18-40mm zoom is available. (At the moment, buying used from a dealer in the UK, a GX9 + 14-140mm would cost around £700 - £1000 so that's not a cheap camera either).

Panasonic UK have two S9 kits listed on their website, one with the 20-60mm f3.5-5.6, the other with the 28-200mm f4-7.1 Macro OIS lens (but no price as yet for that kit). Comparing the sizes of both on the S9, the 28-200mm kit looks like it might be a nice FF travel cam combination at just under 900g total weight including battery. According to Panasonic W x H x D is 126 x 73.9 x 140.1 mm with the 28-200 (the 20-60 is just 6mm shorter and 63g lighter): Amateur Photographer magazine in the UK has estimated the length of the upcoming compact 18-40mm F4.5-6.3 at around 40mm, which is about half the length of the 20-60mm.

It's usually to free up capital tied up in the stock, generate cash to run the company and pay to manufacture new stock of something that is selling better with higher profit margins. Also retailers may get sales volume-based discounts or bonuses from suppliers which are extra income to them.

Have a good story to tell that holds the viewers attention. Everything else is secondary, as without that they won't be watching the content for very long anyway.

That was Paul Cook - https://vimeo.com/paulcook and https://www.paulcookfilm.com/

Lens wise, I think what is needed to pair with the S9 is a collapsible kit zoom like the APS-C Nikon Z 16-50mm f3.5-6.3 but FF so maybe a 24-70mm f4-7.1 ? But as MrSMW said, at the moment a Sigma APS-C 18-50 f2.8 makes a lot of sense for video use as 4k50/60p is APS-C cropped anyway.

But that's comparing current 'street' price of S5ii with launch price of S9 - here in the UK the S5ii was around £1999 at launch, £1649 now. I'd expect the S9 to follow the same sort of price curve, by the end of the year it'll probably be at least £200-£300 cheaper (depending on how good sales are). It's pretty obvious that it's designed to be as small and cheap as possible - no mechanical shutter, no headphone jack, no EVF, cold shoe only, minimal dials and buttons. That keeps the build cost down and helps the product cope with 'price erosion' over time. If they were making a more cutting-edge camera it might have a much faster stacked sensor to compensate for the lack of mechanical shutter - but then I suspect everyone would be saying it's nice but way too pricey...

From the specs on the Panasonic UK website: