caseywilsondp

41 minutes ago, MountneerMan said:

Another really promising snipet from NX1_packages\standard-arm7\usr\include\wideo\drime5\hdmi\d5_hdmi_video_type.h

 

/**
 * @enum ColorSpace
 * @brief Color space of video stream.
 */
enum ColorSpace {
    HDMI_CS_RGB,/**< RGB color space */
    HDMI_CS_YCBCR444,/**< YCbCr 4:4:4 color space */
    HDMI_CS_YCBCR422/**< YCbCr 4:2:2 color space */
};

/**
 * @enum ColorDepth
 * @brief Color depth per pixel of video stream
 */
enum ColorDepth {
    HDMI_CD_36,/**< 36 bit color depth per pixel */
    HDMI_CD_30,/**< 30 bit color depth per pixel */
    HDMI_CD_24/**< 24 bit color depth per pixel */
};

 

I don't have an external recorder but doesn't the NX1 currently only offer 4:2:2 8 bit out?

yes, well thats what is purported around the internet. hard to test as the shogun wraps everything as 422 10bit regardless of input. the severe banding that still occurs makes me think that the output is still only 420 8bit but I'm not sure how to prove it.

(i'm making that assumption based on my experience with the a7s, which almost refused to band when i shot to the shogun, vs shooting internally)

41 minutes ago, ricardo_sousa11 said:

Finally got a few minutes to do a little "trailer" of the wedding I posted a few pics of a few weeks back, here it is...It was "rushed" because Im really in a very tight schedule lately, hope you guys like it.

Let me know what you guys think !

Ps. I still havent figured out how to render properly, quality is destroyed when I upload it somehow..

what are your export settings? i feel like the look and colors are there, but you're right, something is getting destroyed when you upload it.

17 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

Maybe they used nr as a way to effectively use the limited bit rate ?

thats a thought. personally i feel if done correctly, in-camera noise reduction is preferable. broadcast sony cameras black balance to reduce noise, and red cameras map the noise on the sensor during calibration. of course that all depends on how the engineers implement it. 

4 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

I think its that damn noise reduction algorithim at play. It can make a mess of things sometimes. You need a super high resolution lens or stop down to "trick" it into understanding that is DETAIL do not touch it 

Or an external recorder. I think you're right it might be NR, which would explain some of the more detailed shadows on external recordings... That along with higher bitrate.

Rec2020 is correct

On 1/31/2016 at 10:39 AM, kidzrevil said:

not enough support maybe ! Let's see if we can generate support via this thread ! Spread the word !

So the phone hacking guys at xda often have "bounties" for various things, like rooting or unlocking a boot loader. That method I think could be very successful for us. We find an arbiter that we trust, maybe kidzrevil since he started the thread, and pool our money into something like venmo, so that people are actually committed. The bounty would be for something specific like "installable firmware that can increase bitrate to 150 Mbps and increase frame rate to 60fps at highest stable bitrate at 4k". People that want that feature pool their money into that. Once real money can be seen, we might see bigger interest from developers. Of course if everyone wanted we could make the bounty for more or less features... My vote would be to keep it pretty realistic at first.

are you turning your sharpness all the way down to -10?

I have noticed slow motion seems to want even lower isos. I think with 120 you might even be safest at 100. But I'd be ready to be wrong if other people have different findings, I haven't done much testing there.

I think he wants to know what the consensus is on the best settings. 

amen and amen. How can we help push development? Personally, I'd love to be able to not rely on the shogun, but I really enjoy the higher bit rate (among other things like false colors and luts), not to mention the HDMI port seems to be much more fickle than other cameras... I digress... Yes let's push that hack, but how?

Iirc cinema 5D in their testing figured there wasn't a significant increase in quality over the range of 100-1600. I'll look for the link if I can find it. Of course that's with latitude really being their main concern (though in their testing the nx1 performed pretty poorly, and I believe Andrew figured their testing was suspect). If you're speaking noise-wise I haven't seen much change between 100-800, but that's shooting to a shogun so the higher bitrate might mean different results.

Edit:

Here is the link

https://***URL not allowed***/lab-review-samsung-nx1-video-mode-frustrating/

They claim no difference in latitude from 100-3200 in the normal gamma at -10 contrast.

I've done a bit, but it was a story flat picture profile, so while it killed noise, it didn't help with banding. Shooting externally to the shogun it's quite a bit better as the macroblocking is virtually eliminated, and the noise that's introduced is pretty easy to clean up. Haven't tested super high ISO yet

Rest of the week is pretty booked, but this could be something I do maybe next week. Let me see if there are any camera shops that might just be willing to let me borrow a test chart, or maybe shoot something in store. Do you think that micro adjustments like green, red, etc are universal between all the chips that Samsung put into the cameras? What lens would be most appropriate? I have the 16-50S, but also access to sony cine alta primes which are quite clean and don't seem to warm or cool images much if at all.

well i've got the monitor, just don't have real charts readily at my fingertips. 

I rather enjoy making film luts (did several for the a7s) and would not be opposed to making some for the nx1. is there a market for this? i have never made a plugin, but i have some great 4k grain that i could pair with luts. Tell me what type of looks you'd like to see and I'll see what I can do. Personally I like the normal gamma -5 contrast look and I think it'd pair nice with a film look.

you know, at first I was annoyed, and if I shot in 1080 often I'd really hate it, but it actually helps give the image an organic look when you're zoomed out, as it goes across different textures and luminance levels... But at 1080 maybe not a great feature.

just as a bit of reference. when i checked out some 4k shogun stuff and punch in 800% i can just begin to see the formation of that grid pattern again.

here are two scenes at 60p

normal gamma, -5 contrast, -10 sharpness. 16-50S lens clean (no filters)

first detail (detail on bush, as well as how the out-of-focus bit looks i.e banding)

int:

ext:

int 200% crop:

ext 200% crop:

as a still image, the full res images appear pretty similar, with the ext appearing to be slightly sharper. go to the cropped images, and we can see why. blocks of pixels around the edges of the bush are a bit larger/more noticable, and make the bush appear just a bit softer, and give the out-of-focus area a bit of banding.

here is a shot that can give us a good idea of the macro blocking that tens to occur in shadows:

int:

ext:

int 200% crop:

ext 200% crop:

externally and internally results are similar to before, you can notice more macro blocking in the shadows on the internally recorded image, and there is a very, very slight edge to the external image in highlight recovery (again the jpeg would suggest different, and i'm not sure why the export crushes the highlights like that, but check the original files).

*HOWEVER*

look at the external image crop... in the shadows... there appears to be a very fine fixed grid pattern (when they're bumped up significantly). it is very odd. now, you probably shouldn't expect to use any detail that's this heavy in the shadows (+150 via lumetri), but even so I'm not sure this grid pattern is much preferable to the heavy macroblocking of the internal image.

as a still image, i'd actually prefer the internal image, however with motion the macro blocking becomes very noticeable and the external seems more like noise.

ultimately, in motion, i find the external image to be a bit better, but if it's better enough to warrant an extra 1200-2000 (depending on recorder) is up to you.

full files:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwO55ILG1OL-YnNqbGJDejhIcjQ&usp=sharing

Won't bore you with a long story, but in short, I went from an a7s and instead of sticking with Sony, I went to the nx1.

Now if low light is that big of a problem for you, I don't think you have much of a choice, you'll probably want to move to the a7s2. While I do miss being able to shoot at night by the moon and a flashlight (essentially), I've not really found myself lacking with even the most basic of lighting kits (of course your situation may differ).

I'm also not entirely sure you'll find the lens/body weight ratio much changed in your favor by switching to Sony.

We do know all signs point to the nx system being dead, so really they biggest benefit of switching is that you'll be switching into a system with more longevity.

lol

I'll shoot something for you tomorrow. 

Have not tried 60fps, but I found that particularly in the shadows, reduced macroblocking is perhaps the most significant benefit to actually using an external recorder.

shoguns are selling used for a lot less than new now, still might be more than you want to spend, but 4k recording, luts, false colors.. Lots of tools.

That is an amazing deal on that nx1. Interested in your 4x pola

agreed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIzhGCzBtUQ

Shot that with the vizelex nd throttle (it has a bit of a stylized grade)  and honestly for most work I didn't find it to have any noticeable negative impact on my footage.