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G85 is sharper and cleaner than GH4. GH4 has flatter video and less clipping in HL. Here is comparison details GH4 vs G85 in DPREVIEW video comparison frame in same settings.

4 minutes ago, Mackeral_Fillet said:

I already posted this clip in another thread, but this was shot on G80 with Leeming LUT. 

 

Crushed blacks? Why shoot first with cideD flat profile and then ruin dark tones in post? Standard profile contrast0 makes the same easier.

GH5 4k 60P will probably be 150 Mbs like in DVX200 and other Pana 4k 60P camcorders.

1 hour ago, aldolega said:

I find it a bit funny that you find DR super important, yet rely on auto-exposure modes.

Auto exposure is the best way to optimize dynamic range. It wont let highlights to clip like with manual exposure if not being very careful.

2 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

The GH4 AF is very fast, yes. You are incorrect on both the effect of the crop difference and brightness of the GX85 shots. You're on the wrong track with the "clips the highlights", I set levels on the basis of highlight limit - not general scene exposure. 

I only have GH4 and I have watched some comparisons. I have considered getting a new IBIS Panasonic but if the dyn range in new models is worse than in GH4 I must get a GH5. Dyn range is very important to me. Even GH4 is far from what my eyes sees.

8 hours ago, Orangenz said:

What do you mean from raw? It's screenshot of video test. I don't think the GX85 "clips" more than the GH4 but it does do a roll off which makes it look as if it does, even when it isn't.  The other point I might make is the two cameras were set up the same (with exception of idynamic mistake) for the purpose of comparing stabilisation. The problem of the highlights would need a slightly different approach as the GX85 is noticeably brighter - it crops much less and gets more light. So to bring the overall brightness of the images closer something else would have to change, like running GH4 at 400 iso and the GX85 at 200 or 300 (don't know if you can do that). I prefer the GH4 highlight rolloff but can't beat the better low light and ibis of gx85.

GX85 has brighter highlights but darker shadows at the same time. The crop difference and down sampling is not affecting image brightness, it reduces noise. In your examples GX85 is darker than GH4 at same iso and still clips highlights. 

Does the G85 has the same sensor as GX85?

By the way did Andrew mention that G85 AF is very slow in 4k mode, much slower than in GH4.

41 minutes ago, liork said:

No, you've got the wrong conclusion. iDynamic in many time does clip highlights in order to show more contrasty image. So the test you brought is misleading.

In auto exposure idynamic underexposes 1/3 - 2/3  stops and lifts shadows. In full manual it just lift shadows and highlights remain the same. In GH4 idynamic works manually but in some Pana models it is automatic. GX85/GH4 owner of those images said it clips highlights more than GH4.

1 hour ago, liork said:

You have to test both without iDynamic for true comparison.

This is not my test. I dont have other than GH4. I got those images from GX85 topic. 

Yes a proper test would be have exact the same settings. This shows how much more contrasty the GX85 (G85) is because idynamic increases visible dyn range and GX85 clips still more compared to GH4 without idynamic.

10 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Still confused...we know the sensors are different...

You have GH4 and G85. Can you test dyn range and maybe other things too?

22 minutes ago, jonpais said:

So, what's the relationship between dynamic range and low light sensitivity? If ISO 800 is the highest I would shoot with the GH4 and people are saying the G80 can shoot 3200, does that mean it has higher dynamic range as well? Or does it mean it just has less noise in the shadows, but no more gradations between white and black?

I mean the maximum dyn range using iso200-iso400. If the G85 has the same sensor than G85 the GH4 has flatter image in default settings than G85 with idynamic standard.

GX85 (G85) vs GH4 at iso400. GH4 Natural and GX85 Natural+idynamic standard. GH4 is still flatter.

Pros: "Very much improved image quality compared to the GH4...."

GH4 has better dynamic range, less moire and less rolling shutter. I think the the only real improvement is less noise in high iso and that is partly made by softening details.

5 hours ago, Orangenz said:

I don't have the original footage. The colour is better on GX85. As for the range, it's hard to tell really, apart from saying I prefer the highlight treatment on GH4. There's some comparison shots here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TlNsj-CSaE where you can see the GH4 sky is darker with more contrast showing. 

 

I made comparison image GH4 vs GX85 dyn range from your clips. GH4 has more info in highlights.

Both iso400. GH4 Natural and GX85 Natural+idynamic standard. GH4 is still flatter.

22 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

I only shot the video, the violinist did the great edit considering it was on Pinnacle and crashed a lot. I think it was corrected colour a tad in post, yes. I set it up to not clip highlights so it could have probably done with a lift overall into the middle. Yeah basically a totally dark room with three lights (background near cross, foot, roof spot. Thanks! Fairy lights are great! The thing that struck me was the IBIS while using my favourite 25mm. My GH4 sat unused.  

Seems that lightning was indeed very difficult and hard. Does the original clips look the same as this edited video?

Can you say how much there is difference in dyn range (GH4,GX85) in same Natural profile?

18 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

My fault on the white balance there, also this is natural setting as you know gx85 does not have cineD. Personally I like it as that's what the skin actually looks like under orange lamps (flame). Also set the highlights to spot clip as I didn't want the editor to have to colour grade too much on their $50 software. The GX85 does highlight clip easier than the GH4. Apart from the fairy lights the only lights here are a tungsten spot from the roof and a fill panel on the floor, ie. a very high dr situation. Thanks for the feedback!

Panasonic naming and models are easy to mix   In contrasty lights I use lower iso and contrast -5. 

I think all HDR TVs has VA-panel except OLEDs. IPS panel has not enough contrast to show HDR.

3 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

and external mic input if you like putting a fluffy shotty on the top. 

Shot this on GX85, 25mm 1.4, and 42.5 1.7 

 

Looks like cineD. Horrible orange skin tones. Highlights and colors are clipping badly. Is the G85 dyn range so bad?.

Nathan, if you want good dynamic range, get a used GH4.

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Best new camera is the one I am reviewing right now, the Panasonic G85.

The new sensor is way better than the GH4 in terms of image quality. 

It is strange that DXOmark gives GH4 clearly better sensor score and iso score than G85.

I think GH4 has more dynamic range. It is more important in low iso = normal use.

4k photo has different NR than normal video. At least in my GH4.

4k photo has less NR in high iso which may be good if using post NR. The noise is not "ruined" with less sophisticated camera NR.

Very confusing this 6k mess.

I hope Panasonic finally leaves the stupid idea of not showing exposure info in video modes. They should also add more customation because GH4 has so much limitations and bad ergonomic/functional design. In general it is very good but it has many wrong thought little details which makes using video difficult.

I wonder if there is difference in "4k Photo" video quality vs normal 4k video. I figured that also in normal 4k video mode there is an option to use "4k photo creative video mode". (in GH4 but I think the GX85 has the same 4k photo features)

Does anyone know what is the difference between 4k video and 4k photo?

The camera says: "Change the video quality settings used for 4k still images?" when selecting "4k photo creative video mode" feature in normal video mode.

How the video stream is different for photos and video? NR, autofocusing... ?

4k photo records 0-255 video.

New GH5 rumors

- 6k Photo and maybe also 6k video like in 4k Photo (6k sensor)
-  4k 60P
-  4k 30P 10bit 4:2:2 internal with maybe HDR video
– The GH5 has the in sensor stabilization just like the G80
– The camera has 2 SD card slots, maybe 4k+proxy recording
– No more limit about the duration of recording. 29 minutes in Europe.
– The audio XLR microphone hotshoe mounted I/O interface will be compatible with the DMC-GH4.
– It has full size HDMi
– The main sizes are identical of the GH4. Advantage : You can use ANY same accessory like Cage, Etc. from your previous GH3 or GH4.
– Panasonic plans to start shipping out the GH5 in March/April!
– Body only: Price will be between 1 800 € and 2 000 € in Europe for the DMC-GH5.
– Price will be ± 2 900 € for the DMC-GH5 + the new Panasonic Leica 12-60 Lens (not the older 12-60mm lens!)

http://www.43rumors.com/at-last-pana...1pm-wed-jan-4/

Does the GX85 has less banding and more dynamic range in 0-255 video than in 16-235 video? In theory yes but in practise?

I think many use grain to hide banding. I use debanding filter. It hides banding but is not adding noise or grain. It reduces noise. Video becomes cleaner, more photo like.