Julian

Shame Blackmagic makes this more confusing than it is. Guys, there is no doubt that the cropfactor is 3x, the sensor measures 12,48 x 7,02 mm. You can calculate the diagonal and compare it to fullframe and the cropfactor is 3x. Fact.

Is there any wider and longer lenses that are worth looking at too?

 

I'm in two minds about what lenses to get for the pocket, not sure wherever it's worth getting lenses like the Samyang 8mm and 24mm to go along side my 14mm that I already have or go for something smaller and cheaper.

 

What I'm not liking with these is the soft edges, I know a lot of lenses have soft edges but it's really noticable on some of the these C-mount stills

 

This kinda results you get when you use them on image sensors bigger than what they are made for. With the BMPCC sensor it won't be so bad if you use 1" lenses. You probably will have to stop down to get sharp corners, but thats with about every lens.

 

For example, from my test:

Computar 25mm @ f/1.8: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/gallery/image/242-computar-25mm-18/

Computar 25mm @ f/5.6: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/gallery/image/244-computar-25mm-56/

 

This might be a nice wide angle: http://www.ebay.com/itm/330905355354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Canon TV-16 6mm f/1.8 Apparently it is made for 1" sensors, so it should cover the Pocket nicely.

Looks lovely, there is a downside though, it's fixed focus (hyperfocal). I'm not bidding on it, wonder for what price it will go.

 

One other thing, would an 8.5mm lens designed for 2/3" (while still vignetting) be useable (versus that $5 eBay 8mm f/1.2 fixed iris lens for 1/3" sensor)?
 

The 8.5mm cosmicar and 8mm 1.3 Tokina I tested are for 2/3" I think. The cosmicar is for sure. I don't consider it useable. You might have luck with longer lenses, but even the Tokina 16mm vignettes as you can see.

Tokina TV Lens  8mm f/1.3

Tokina TV Lens  16mm f/1.6

Vignetting is worse stopped down and focused at infinity.

 

Kowa TV Zoom 12.5-75mm f/1.8

Can't get it to focus properly. This is shot at the widest setting, if you zoom to 75mm it just about covers it, but quality is poor, lots of distortion.

 

$25 eBay 25mm f/1.2

Works, but the lens is difficult to use. No focus or iris marks.

Shot wide open:

 

$5 eBay 8mm f/1.2 fixed iris lens for 1/3" sensor

Probably CS mount, only works as super macro and obviously it is made for very small sensors.

My results for the mentioned lenses:

 

Computar 8mm f/1.3

 

Computar 25mm f/1.8

Picture @ F/5.6

 

 

Cosmicar 8.5mm f/1.5

 

Cosmicar 12.5mm f/1.8

 

Fujinon TV Lens 16mm f/1.4

 

Fujinon TV Lens 35mm f/1.7

1/2" is about half of the BMPCC sensor. It's not going to work.

 

I tested al my C-mount lenses and made the topic: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/2513-pocket-cinema-camera-c-mount-compatibility-list/

 

Hope you guys can add to it! would be nice to see some C-mount zooms for 1" sensors. They should work.

That lens will nowhere near cover it. I'll show it tomorrow with my $8 8mm f/1.2.

1" lenses should work fine. They don't come cheap though. $600 for the 6mm 1.8.

The B4 lenses are for 2/3" I think. They will work with the 2x extender but you'll also loose two stops of light. They might work in tele withouth the extender. The B4 adapters aren't very cheap either.

Wait for 7D2 this year.

 

And prepare to be disappointed!

Yeah, the ability to use S16 lenses is nice, but I don't think it's going to be cheap. It's already hard to find them at all, and if they are up on ebay there are pretty expensive for the good ones.

 

But even without S16 lenses I think there will be plenty of options, even for wide. Especially when the M43 speed booster comes out.

 

I'm not going to invest in S16 glass, I'll probably use the c-mount lenses I have lying around and might try to pick up a few cheap ones, but I feel more comfortable investing in normal lenses, because I could always use them in the future on a bigger sensor.

 

Probably the first Speed Booster for M43 will be a dumb one with Nikon mount maybe. I'm contemplating on a 3 prime anamorphic setup. Could be a 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.4 and 85mm (Nikkor f/2 or f/1.8, or Samyang 1.4). Will have to add a 24mm or 28mm (f/2 maybe..) to use with my 1.5x anamorphic.

 

Wit the Speed Booster the BMPCC crop is roughly 2x, so what would result in:

Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 = 56mm f/2 + 1,5x Anamorphic = 37mm fov

Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 = 70mm f/1.0 + 2x Kowa B&H Anamorphic = 35mm fov
Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 = 100mm f/1.0 + 2x Kowa B&H anamorphic = 50mm fov
Nikkor 85mm f/2 = 170mm f/1.4 + 2x Kowa B&H anamorphic = 85mm fov

@andy: that 3.5-8mm wil not cover the BMPCC sensor at all. It's probably for 1/3" sensors. I have a tiny 8mm f/1.2 CCTV lens for 1/3" sensors, costs like $8, but the coverage is too small of course.

 

@Rungunshot: some c-mount lenses will be crap, some will be ok, some will be good :) a good 8mm that will cover the sensor for that price range must be possible. I have a Computar 8.5mm f/1.5 that barely covers it (vignettes in the corners) and I have a Tokina 8mm 1.3 TV lens that probably will cover it, but I have to modify the mount to make it fit on my c-mount to m43 adapter. I don't know how the quality will be, but both lenses I bought for small prices on eBay.

 

I'm planning on starting a topic soon where I test my C-mount lenses for BMPCC coverage (it's easy to do with the GH2 and cropping out the sensor size of the Pocket), maybe we can make a nice list that way.

It also depends on the design of the lens. Some might vignette more than others, it should be a rough guideline.

 

I'm surprised it works on your GH2 with 53.2mm equivalent, but doesn't work on your T2i with 56mm equivalent.. what 35mm are you using on the T2i?

I think his goal of 1.5:1 compression ratios for the Pocket are very ambitious and unlikely.
Someone help me figure this out and correct my math if it's wrong

Frame size: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels

12 bit Y' Channel: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels * 12bits per pixel = 24,883,200 bits per frame
12 bit Cb Channel: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels * 12bits per pixel = 24,883,200 bits per frame
12 bit Cr Channel: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels * 12bits per pixel = 24,883,200 bits per frame
Total "YUV" Channels: 74,649,600 bits per frame

Frame rate: 23.976 frames per second * 74,649,600 bits per frame = 1,789,798,809.6 bits per second
 

 

I think your math is correct, but the reality is different from the theoretical numbers. For example, the BMCC CinemaDNG's are like 5MB each.

 

According to the math, they should be 119.596.032 bits per frame, or 14,2MB each.

 

That's not the case. So even though CinemaDNG is RAW, the size it is not just the sum of all bits.

Yeah I already have some c-mount glass that I can use on it. Tested my Cosmicar 8.5mm f/1.5 for coverage, it will vignette a little bit in the extreme corners, could be used as a fun lens though. My Computar 12.5mm 1.8, Computar 25mm 1.8, Tokina 16mm 1.6 and Fuji 35mm 1.7 will be fine.

Ok, so that's clear, now how about the exact crop factor? This from John Bawley, 

 

 

Ok, so it is slightly less than true Super 35mm. Does it mean that crop factor will be slightly higher than 1.6x? 

 

The exact cropfactor is 1.70x.

 

(If the sensor size is 21.12mm x 11.88mm, the diagonal is 24,23mm. The diagonal of 16:9 fullframe is 41,3mm.

ivide 24,23mm by 41,3mm).

 

So it sits in between the GH2, the F5 and canon aps-c (roughly 1.6x, Nikon is 1.5x).

 

Panasonic GH3: 2x

Panasonic GH2: 1.86x

BMCC 4K: 1.70x

Sony F5: 1.59x

I use the Minolta 35mm f/2.8, that's as wide as you can go, it might vignette a bit in the extreme corners, but doesn't show in every shot.

Here's some footage on the GH2 with Minolta 35mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.7, 100mm f/2.5 and the Kowa B&H.

The Minolta's are cheap to find, it's easy to collect a whole set like that :)

 

https://vimeo.com/53787515

The crop factor of the Pocket is 3x, no matter wat lens. M43 lenses are made for 2x crop, a typical kit lens is 14-45 (28-90) and will be 42-135mm on the Pocket for example.

Newsshooter and Blackmagic cleared up the earlier confusing info about raw on the Pocket Cam:

http://www.newsshooter.com/2013/04/09/nab2013-blackmagic-clear-up-codec-confusion-on-pocket-cinema-camera/

 

raw is (supposed to be) in the camera when it's shipping

 

http://vimeo.com/63675961

 

Blackmagic clear up the questions that have come from yesterday’s release of their Pocket Cinema Camera. The protoype cameras being demoed at the show are locked to ProRes with no sign of the claimed Cinema DNG. However, the camera on release is due to feature both ProRes and Cinema DNG options. Cinema DNG in the Pocket Cinema Camera is described as ‘lightly compressed’ to a level of 1.5:1, so from a 128GB card Blackmagic predict 30min of raw, compared to 70-80mins of ProRes.

 

1.5:1 is not a lot of compression. I would love to see more. Well, luckily the price of the Pocket leaves some budget to buy more hdd's...

If you know what is the maximum focal length you can use on your current camera, then you know what you can use on the Pocket. Just calculate everything back to fullframe.

 

For example: my Kowa 2X works on 35mm on my GH2 with 1,86x crop.

35mm x 1,86 = 65,1 (fullframe equivalent)

Divide 65,1 by 3 (cropfactor Pocket Camera) = 21,7mm

Agreed, it's a bit of an expensive lesson in the works of crowdfunding... If I was one of them I wouldn't be happy either. It sure made me realise to think very well before jumping the wagon on such projects.

Perhaps the ones I should really feel sorry for are the Kickstarter backers who dropped $3K+ and still don't have a product they pre-paid for, may never see it, and may not even be interested any more if they do. This whole saga is a bitter cautionary tale about crowdfunding.

 

Agree with your post, but crowdfunding is like it says: a form of funding. You shouldn't just expect to hit the order button and get everything delivered on time, there are no such guarantees in crowdfunding. Not even in buying from a respectable company like Blackmagic ;)

 

Buying something trough crowdfunding is a risk and you should know it as a backer.

Digital Bolex is $3299 retail... For me, that's not a comparison at all. I never considered the Bolex because of the price. I pre-ordered the Pocket Camera as fast as I could. It's quite a difference.

 

If price doesn't matter, I hope the Bolex offers more than the BMPCC and I guess it does. Anamorphic 4:3 mode, XLR, etc.

 

I think the Bolex is more for filmmakers who want that S16 look. The BMPCC is for everyone who wants great quality at a low price. The small sensor is just a consequence.

On the Pocket Camera you won't get any vignetting with DX/EF lenses. With the Speed Booster the crop factor will be 2.1x, still more than aps-c 1.5/1.6x. On the S35 camera you won't be able to use a Speed Booster at all, because it has a EF mount.

Hmmm...

 

 

Kinda looks like this:

http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_155306/bae-systems-ultra-low-noise-imaging-sensor-headed-to-scientific--military-markets

http://ccdcmos.com/products/cameras/scientific/CIS1021-sCMOS.htm

 

Based on the CIS2051 (which is 5,5 megapixel, so could be the BMCC sensor?)

 

Google CIS1021:

Found a 42 page pdf about it: http://alliedscientificpro.com/wp-content/uploads/MAN-0103-CIS1021-Datasheet_RevA.pdf

 

CIS1021 DATASHEET
2.1 MP HD CMOS Image Sensor

• 6.5 μm square 5T active pixels
• Diagonal 14mm (Type 1/1.2”)
• High resolution imaging array: 1920(H) x 1080(V) HDTV format
• Extra 32 dark rows (16 dark rows on top and bottom edges)
• Extra 96 dark columns (48 dark columns on left and right edges)
• Extra 16 border rows and 16 border columns enclosing the active ROI
• High speed operation: 100 fps in Rolling Shutter, 50 fps in Global Shutter mode
• Low noise: 1 e
• RMS @ 50 fps in Rolling Shutter readout mode
• High peak quantum efficiency: > 50% at 600nm
• High intra-scene dynamic range: 90dB (30000:1)
• Two 11-bit output channels per pixel via dual column amplifiers
• Column parallel 11-bit A/D conversion
• Programmable shutter modes: Rolling Shutter and Global Shutter
• Programmable Region of Interest (ROI) readout
• ROI indexed by individual row vertically
• and by 16-column wide blocks horizontally
• Seamless integration time change in Rolling Shutter readout mode
• On-chip temperature sensor
• Power consumption ~ 0.8 W in dual channel 100 fps operation to ~ 0.3W in single
• channel 50 fps operation
• Protection against black-sun image artifacts

 

What do you think?

 

/Edit: Or this one: http://fairchildimaging.com/catalog/focal-plane-arrays/scmos/cis-1910f