amweber21

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I need to mess around with the 8bit, internal raw a little more. I tested it for a few minutes and it seems to take a big hit in the highlights, but since the footage seems to handle underexposure pretty well, I could try protecting the poop out of them.

Thanks for the info regarding the DPL drives. I'll have to figure out my FB login and have a closer look.

If you're dealing with moderate dynamic range shots, 8bit is actually great. I have no problem using it. Similar to an uncompressed 8bit tif file.

Like you, I'm only seeing it in the difference in the extreme highlights.

Sure thing. You can email them directly to make an order. Don't have to go through FB.

25 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah that's a bit pricey, but it's better than the equivalent cost of SD cards... obviously not to mention the bump in resolution you get using the drive. Can you purchase two enclosures and one rack? I doubt I'd ever need any more than 50 minutes of footage in one day, but I guess it doesn't hurt to have two set ups. I bought a SmallRig enclosure the other day but I haven't ordered the drive or the cold shoe attachment for it yet. One of each could probably do. 

You're right, it is. I probably should have gone that route before I got a $200+ V90 card. It's nice having 8bit raw internally but only 20 minutes of record time always makes me nervous, haha.

Yes, you can get multiple enclosures and they have different colors too. Different style racks too, one a bit bigger with a cold shoe on top, another made to use with the Sigma evf. All use the same enclosures though.

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

Smart, my natural inclination would have been to leave the grip on the camera and take off the drive. Your way is quicker. If you don't mind me asking... how much is that DPL Drive?

It's definitely the more expensive option all said and done.. Rack plus m.2 enclosure was $128, shipping was $49, and the sabrent 1TB drive was $130.

1 minute ago, mercer said:

Nice! I'm using the same handle, but in black. That DPL rack is pretty sweet!

Yeah, I like the handle because you can keep everything connected to the handle, and just screw it on the camera in 5 seconds. No cage needed. 8sinn t5 clamp is nice because you can build off of the 15mm rod and also tilt the drive up or down if needed.

19 hours ago, mercer said:

And with that said, I can't say for sure yet if I'm going to get along with the FP. On the positive side, the 4K 12bit raw is pretty nice, but I probably don't really need 4K raw and unless I can find a simple, ergonomic solution to the external SSD, I may find the camera too cumbersome to my sensibilities... even with its multitude of positives...

But that 4K 12bit raw image is pretty damn nice... and it didn't cause my computer to implode. 

I've gone through a lot of experimentation with my fp L to find the right configurations. It's actually been one of the biggest things I enjoy with the camera is just finding new setups for different use cases. I don't really like rigs or things with cables everywhere so here is my cleanest setup with a samsung T5. I can screw in a rod extension with a coldshoe for mic/top handle when needed.

I recently picked up the DPL ssd rack and thumbgrip and it is even smaller and lighter. I recommend it if you want to go a small as possible.

8 hours ago, Django said:

Kodak CCD sensors have so much mojo vs CMOS. I'm still stunned by the IQ I get from my Leica M9 vs CMOS Leicas.

I feel Fuji carry over some of that mojo with their Xtrans film simulations but the heavy chroma NR remains an issue. Still XH2S with ProRes, Open Gate and ultra low RS (5ms in 4K60) probably gives some of the best IQ for the money.

Komodo is by far the best under $10K.

Sigma is very interesting to me sensor wise since the DP2 Merill Foveon days. Again lots of mojo not so un similar to Kodak CCD. Is there any update on their FF Foveon x3 supposedly releasing in 2022?

https://ymcinema.com/2022/08/03/sigma-ceo-the-full-frame-foveon-x3-sensor-will-be-ready-this-year/

The latest I've heard if from an interview a couple weeks ago. Around the 9 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY672OZBrp0

He says they are in the middle of the second stage, and hope to begin the third stage by the end of the year or early next year. Camera body design won't happen until after the third stage. I wouldn't expect it until late next year at the earliest. I just hope it allows for some sort of video capture, especially if it can be CDNG  like their fp system. foveon+cdng would be the closest thing to film in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Interesting that he would give 1.24 for best dynamic range, do you have a link to the interview with Wakamatsu?

Maybe the binning / oversampling different in SSD DNG 12bit vs internal 8bit DNG?

However your 1.30x shots look pixel binned and all the same detail. Different sharpening maybe.

From memory of my tests the other month, I am 99% sure it needs to be at 1.37x and anything less is similar in detail to the 1.0x full frame.

Maybe Wakamatsu's ghost writer got the numbers slightly wrong... Someone also needs to tell him to get back to work from the motorbike track and put a LOG profile in there pronto 🙂

Wonder what the deal is with that still not being in?

And an articulated screen would also be a great edition to future entries.

It was from cined's review of the fp L when it was first launched: https://www.cined.com/sigma-fp-l-review-and-sample-footage/ They were collaborating with Wakamatsu regarding the testing.

Not sure how 1.24x gives the best dynamic range, but from the testing it gives the best rolling shutter which makes sense.

In a later interview they retracted their promise on a log profile stating it was a hardware limitation, so that looks to be all but dead.

Here's a quick visual to show the crossover point on both 4K and in 1080p. 1.30x for 4K and 1.67x for 1080p. No adjustments outside of the crop function. Should show the huge fine detail increase in both.

32 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Are those 1.3x?

You need to go 1.37x before the oversampling kicks in.

Yeah, it's with 1.30x. Anything 1.24x and lower is definitely skipped in 12bit mode.

Sigma's fp lead Wakamatsu gave recommendations for crops: 

For the best Resolution, x1.3 – 2.48

For phase detection AF, x1.0 and x1.53

For best dynamic range, x1.24

Here was my test on 4K crops at 100%. 1.0x looks okay, but some heavy aliasing. Probably okay if finishing in 1080p. Clean at 1.3x and on. No problem in 10bit or 8bit. So I will drop to 10bit if I need to stay wider. 10bit still has fantastic flexibility.

Noticed something similar in 1080p but needed an even higher crop. Don't have any test shots to show though. The bitrate didn't seem to affect it, however. Still showed up at 10 and 8bit for whatever reason.  

13 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The Fp-L starts oversampling around 1.37x

And looks very nice and crisp up to around 2x, maybe even a bit further

The full frame and 1.1/1.2x crops are binned but still look very nice.

I just wish it had a 2.8K RAW mode oversampled from 4K RAW to save on file size.

You can see the jump at 1.30x based on this rolling shutter graph, but you're right, it looks great all the way to 2.5x. Haven't seen any evidence for 1.67x on 1080p, outside of my own observations. Give it a try if you're doing any testing. I'd be curious if you notice anything also.

I've sent a request to Sigma for something similar. 2.5K-2.8K would allow up to 60p 12bit right around the bandwidth of current 4K 30p and a big improvement on 1080p. 2.4:1 4K should also allow full 1.0x width shooting based on the amount of data needed to be read off.

On 10/26/2022 at 8:15 AM, Andrew Reid said:

Cinema DNG is the key to the Fp. Even in 8bit.

It doesn't have the squeaky clean and processed look of BRAW and ProRes RAW.

I may try the 2K on the Fp-L and see if it's any good. The file sizes in 4K are a bit of an issue.

You'll want to shoot with a 1.67x crop or higher if possible. That seems to be the point where it oversamples the image. Up from the 1.30x of UHD I'm guessing due to the extra processing required to downsample further to 1080p. I could swear the full width 1080p has been improved since I first got the camera. Maybe they snuck it in with a firmware, but the improvement is still clear at 1.67x. Higher 1080p frame rates will require it 1.67x or higher anyway. 12bit to an SD card is also nice.

I second the Sigma fp L. With it's crop zoom function it gives a lot of flexibility for active sensor size. Rolling shutter should improve the more you crop as with any camera. You can shoot 4K at pixel-to-pixel 2.5x crop giving you an effective 14.4mmx8.1mm. Which can crop to a 3.4K if you want to match the 2.8x d-bolex size, but with a 3:2ish aspect. Or with a 2.1x crop it gives a 17.1mmx9.64mm to match the 4:3 height. 2.7x and 2.9x available in FHD but shooting in UHD would probably make more sense to utilize more of the area. All in uncompressed 12bit CDNG of course, and offers more visual aids than most.

33 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

Sorry for the question but, does the S1 record 6K 3:2 10bit? If yes then it's my camera.

Yes, the 6K, 5.9K, and 60p modes are essentially the same format. 200mbps 4:2:0 10bit HEVC.

As he mentioned, you need the Vlog upgrade installed.

Awesome. Please link your video when you make it. It'd be great to see a comparison between the multiple options. I haven't pulled the trigger on the EVF, but I'm sure I'll pick it up eventually. I wanted to wait for a sale of some sort but it never seems to budge in price!

I have a decent raw recording setup now, but I like the thought of going even smaller with it, and seem like the DPL solution is the best way to go to do so. It'd be great to have the ability to use the EVF, or have a coldshoe for a mic, but I think the slim model might make the most sense for compact handheld or gimbal shooting.

You might have already seen, but there's an interesting NPF battery grip on the way as well.

On 7/24/2022 at 12:01 AM, eatstoomuchjam said:

If the goal is to have an inexpensive, small, and light SSD that can work with a bunch of cameras, I'd try the Sabrent Rocket Nano (I just mentioned it in another thread and I promise I'm not affiliated with them!):

https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Rocket-External-Aluminum-SB-1TB-NANO-BLK/dp/B07XL6BMFP/

Before I switched to using the Dark Power Labs accessories with my FP, I bought one of these intending to 3d print a tiny cage to match it.  In terms of size, I'd say it's just over half of a Samsung T5 (give or take).  With my FP, I stress tested it by filling it up twice and formatting while recording 12-bit raw video of a wall or something like that.  It worked fine.  My sample size is 1 so it's not out of the question that I won the silicon lottery - or that it would fail on the third or fourth time if I kept going.

I searched earlier for verification on how the the Sabrent handled the fp footage. Some say it couldn't keep up, although it could have been the older 5/gbs model they were using. Good to know yours works out. I went with the T5 only because it has a plethora of mounting brackets available and Sigma verified. The Sabrent seems too small to fit in any brackets.  I guess one could modify it with a 1/4 20 mount somehow.

The Dark Power seems to be the way to go if the ultimate in small form factor, although a bit pricey. Did you go with the normal one or the one that goes with the EVF-11? 

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I did indeed.

The stills/cine separation thing was a bit of a damp squib though.

It only allows you to separate exposure controls, not more exotic things like crop factor.

Thankfully the crop feature can be assigned to left and right on the d-pad so it is very quick to set.

That RED motion mount I showed you, I wonder how possible it would be to adapt it to L-mount, with a little control box for the ND?

Probably not easy but probably not impossible either 🙂

You can get around that by setting custom modes. I have one set for 12bit 1.3x crop, one set for 1080p 12bit 1.67x, and so on. The camera will even jump from A mode to your last used custom mode when you switch from still to cine so you don't even have to change modes.

Yep, tried a handful of them including 1/50. All are working.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nah on the Fp-L there is a specific minimum shutter speed in the Auto ISO menu you can select.

So I selected 1/50 and it insists on 1/60, probably for NTSC countries.

We could could with a PAL mode for stills!

Oh, I didn't even scroll down to see there were individual speeds you can select below the autos.

I tried multiple speeds. All seem to work as a minimum. Here a screenshot using 1/40

Maybe something is overwriting your setting pushing it to 1/60. Not sure.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

It could be used at 1/50 with NDs for stills.

That makes it pretty bullet proof as far as banding goes in 50hz PAL countries.

They haven't got a flicker reduction mode in the menus though.

It is a bit of an oversight.

Camera always seems to select 1/60 indoors for me, even though I set the minimum Auto ISO shutter speed at 1/50!

It's part of it's auto minimum shutter based off your focal length. It'll make your shutter 1/60 usually on standard. You can select a minimum, but they strangely don't let you select the number but use a slow, standard, fast, faster, etc type shutter setting.

I recommend just shooting in manual and set auto iso. Then you can just adjust shutter to whatever. I switch to A only when outside.

19 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I don't know if that was shot in RAW or h264 but the colors looked amazing.

I'd actually say that's the .MOV. My fp L clips similarly in the highlights. In raw it holds much better.

It's the fantastic color profiles they have in the camera!

On 6/3/2022 at 11:26 AM, MrSMW said:

Yes, when I tested it last year, anything outdoor not moving, no problem.

Indoors, event photography, no chance. It’s one of the worst cameras on the planet in that regard, - you can’t just go shoot with it.

So it’s only the video side I am personally interested in, but then after my last 3 weddings, I have gone back to shooting hybrid as I am getting more consistent results with…of all my cameras, the S1R’s, shooting the Natural profile, in 8 bit 4K 50p.

They are pretty sticky in the AF department so S1H and S5 have gone back to static video only duty.

It is tough indoors, but I wouldn't say you can't use it. The 24-105 gets me solid results, even being f4, since I can use shutters down to nearly a full second. I think longer lenses don't work so well, but faster wide lenses are okay since you don't need as fast as shutter speeds. With 61MP you can crop in on them if needed.

On 6/2/2022 at 7:16 PM, Andrew Reid said:

3 - The Cinema DNG factor. In 8bit it can be a bit ropey in the highlights but the 12bit files are THICK. Also the full frame RAW stands up really well even though it is pixel binned from 9.5K, I can barely tell a difference to oversampled 4K. Aliasing is really well controlled and it doesn't lack detail!

I also have the 24-105 with my fp L. Look to invest in the HG-21 for larger lenses. I now have 4 different grips for the fp L, and the HG-21 is by far the best feeling, although the largest.

Maybe you can put the 8 and 10bit CDNG files through the paces. I use 12bit in 1.3x crop when I need the best, but I'm often satisfied with 10bit in 1.0x or 8bit when wanting to shoot internally to the SD card. I see a slight reduction in the highlight retention as I'm sure you have noticed, but the shadows I do not notice a dramatic difference. I know the original fp caused some serious green shifts, but I don't see that on the fp L. Is that your experience?

Also note 1080p will need to be 1.67x crop and beyond when shooting any CDNG. In .MOV it works fine until the higher frame rates. That's probably the biggest downside of the fp L, but I don't often do 1080p.

4 hours ago, Superka said:

About the streaks on Panasonic GH6. My Sony a7c has the same. Fuji X-T3, 4 also does.

Why Gerals never told about it on those cameras?

 

This was shown on the CVP video also (see 29:26). After contacting Panasonic, they sent a fix via firmware.

28 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

For the first time I am not excited for a new GH camera. Makes me a bit sad to realize that.:/

Andrew and members of this forum like Kye, if i remember this right, have been suggesting and inspiring the discussion about different form factors for hybrids. I was hoping for something else. With Prores LT to HQ for different resolutions and framerates it would bring some excitement back to me though. If for 5.7K 30p only, not so much. Prores 4444 in 2K modes and downsampled 2K opengate or S16 in 4to3 format with full S16 width, now we are talking.

 

I wouldn't take it as only 5.7K 30p, but at a maximum. Everything below should be supported.. one would think.

The video quality menu showed 5.7K but also a 5.8K at 24/30p. I'm guessing this is similar to the S1/S1H 5.9K/6K option where the 6K is open gate with a slightly larger resolution.

I think this will be an open gate 4:3 mode with nearly the full 25MP image.