peederj

I'm definitely still interested in reading about BlackMagic. But I did loose interest in buying one myself. Cancelled my pre-order on the Pocket. Still, I read a lot about things that I will never buy, it's just something I'm really interested in. Probably most interested in the 4K model, not because of I will ever use it, but because it is the camera that is the most unknown to date and I'm curious what it has to offer to the world of video. Anyway, that deifnately shouldn't be a reason for you to buy one Andrew :)
 
Funny thing: when I joined EOSHD about a year ago, I thought it was funny that the name was EOSHD, while this really was (is) the place to go to for GH2 shooters - one of the reasons I joined here as well (and anamorphic shooting). After all, the name has made a come back it seems ;)
 
Sure don't hope it turns into a Canon only thing. The power of the blog is that you write about almost everything that _could_  be interesting to filmmakers. Whatever the brand or the price. That's what I like.

We already know the quality of the Pocket Cam's sensor...it's a moire-ridden, lower-res 1:1 crop of the original cam's sensor. What we don't know about the pocket cam is how many bugs will be in the first implementation of BMD's MFT support...so one thing you might do is visit a shop/rental house with your pocket cam and try each MFT lens and see and list which won't focus/iris/is properly. I'm confident once all is said and done the BMD pocket will offer better color and DR than the GH2/GH3 but far worse ergonomics, lens support, moire, stills, real (as opposed to simulated via aliasing) sharpness/resolution, and total cost of ownership. Anyway they're just starting out making cameras. 
 
The 4K cam is what's interesting from them...S35, 4K ProRes, EF glass...we already know the ergonomics will be terrible and lens support still iffy but just how awful is that sensor to get it this cheap? The only competitors to it for that res under $25K TCO are 1DC and Scarlet, the former a bit of a kludge and the latter quite long in the tooth at this point.
 
Regardless Andrew, I hope BMD doesn't "help you with their coverage" as I think you're one of the only bloggers willing to straight up criticize a mfr and their products, and that's invaluable. Even if you aren't perfectly fair and even in your critiques I think online camera reviewing would lose a lot if you got corrupted into "being a team player."

Having just discovered the awesome ETTR on ML & how to use it to successfully reduce the sensor noise at small reliable crop factors, i'm beginning to really like the idea of the Pocket being delayed! A month, two or three would be lovely...

I am totally with the op. This is absolutely the most glaringly offensive lack of a feature on this camera. 
 
Is there seriously harm in asking for a simple feature to be added? This is the 3rd overhaul of the camera, still no exposure lock

Hi all,

please join us to improve GoPro 3 with our GoPro 3 exposure lock petition. Thank you.
 
Text of the petition:
We, the GoPro3 users, would like to ask you if you could enhance the GoPro camera with exposure lock functionality. GoPro is a wonderful camera, however, inability to lock exposure can cause side effects that can be noticed in the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFMCWAqY_Io. We would also appreciate full manual control over ISO and exposure, but we all hope that you could add at least the exposure lock function. Thank you very much.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/gopro-3-exposure-lock/
 

I think 'we', being those that visit great sites such as this one, are perhaps giving ourselves a false impression to how big certain markets are.
 
Just a cursory glance at the number of downloads the ML raw builds tells the tale of a few hundred at best.
 
Compared to the interest in these devices as photographic cameras rather than movie making machines, I think we are small fry.

If this last few weeks has shown anything, it is that indie filmmakers are very fickle. BM was toast of the town, now they hardly get a look in and i know plenty of people (myself included) who have cancelled their BMCC orders, while everyone jumps back in bed with Canon, the company that so many, on here, love to hate.
 
I'm sure we will all sell up and buy a Nikon, if they announced a 2K/60p raw upgrade too. It's just the nature of the indie crowd, and i'm not at all surprised that Canon, RED and a few others are now trying to distance themselves from it.

This kine camera although it may be more than usable, it has the build quality of a cheap black & decker drill. 
just look at the buttons, seams and decals. we do not need to know how it is made inside...
To put this product in the same sentence with an Alexa is an insult.
 
If the colors of the BM production camera will be spot on, unlike the current BM cinema camera, I would buy the BM over the Chinese one at anytime. But BM colors are a concern.
Everybody seems to be concern about BMPC dynamic range, but what is more concerning are the colors of the current camera.
Skin tones and saturated colors of the current BM are not acceptable , reminiscent of the quality of early 2000 DSLR.
 
We tested one BMCC before shooting a commercial for skin care product and decided to give it up, because of the issue with the skin tones. it would have made us waste time (money and time of our life that will never get back) on post to fix  colors and never get satisfactory results. It was a pity that we could not use this camera that otherwise was good. So we decided go with a Sony F55 which in Tokyo is only 500 usd per day with the 4k recorder and the viewfinder, (vs 150 of the BMCC). the cost of renting rigs and lenses would have been the same for both cameras. at the end we spent an extra 350$ per day and we saved a lot of time and money.
You normally get what you pay for.

FYI, the Kineraw cameras do not support IS on EF lenses.

Raw from the C100 sensor. Now there's a good idea.
 
Over to you Canon.

It's so much fun pushing your buttons peedrj.
 
But in all honesty, I can only compare my BMCC footage to my Wife's 5D3 in stills mode. To my eyes, the BMCC DR advantage is pretty apparent when shooting in bright sunlight.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on the value of the C-series. Yes, I would say without a doubt in my mind there are pricing issues. it's not for everyone, but RAW isn't either. I guess it's going to be an uphill battle as many of the claims on raw here are just borderline cult-like and I haven't seen much respectable inquiry into the subject.
 

though i´m a 5d mark3 owner, i absolutely agree with you. for the most paid things the 5d mark raw is not a solution. even if the hack gets stable. the data rates alone make it impossible to use for documentary shooting for example. i´m really happy that this hack exists and i can play around with it but let´s see if it becomes a good way to work. i doubt it. 
i also think you all should not blame canon so much. it´s a normal strategy for companies to offer different product for different prices and costumers. for example i know somebody how works for bmw in the development. the 316, the 318 and the 320i have the same engine, they just crippled the lower end engines and sell them cheaper. it´s more efficient to produce a higher number of engines and make them less strong for lower end cars, the to produce 3 different engines. all bmw would be much more expensive if they would produce 3 different engines. even if canon  would would use the same sensor in the 600d and the mk3, i would still buy the mark3, because i want a magnesium body and not a plastic camera.
for example the canon ef 50mm 1,4 and the ef 50mm 1,2 are both very good lenses. but the 50mm 1,2 has a much better build quality and a bit better image and it costs 5 times the price. but if you work every day with this lens and earn money with it, then you maybe wanna buy it. i don´t start thinking is this really 5 times better then the 50 1,4? or is canon a greedy bitch because of this? i just think about if the things, this pro lens offers, is worth the more money for me personally. it´s easy like that.
i mean who would think the 5d mark raw is the right tool for one when he works every day with it? and i don´t mean making test shots and playing around. this is important to do and i´m really thankful that it´s been done, but if i can get a nearly the same image quality then the mark raw with a proress codec, and a good handling of the camera and the post workflow. this doesn´t sound too bad for me.
it´s really funny that everybody buys canon and complains about them at the same time... lol

Sample footage! shot some boring bricks to test for moire. Looks pretty good to me. I have the feeling it's better than the 5DII... Would have to check in a direct comparison though.

[url=https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/9601255fb2b189b37b4b0d44cb0194c320130525170445/0fc5fb145e9213a3c61911886b4a751d20130525170445/70564c]Download here (WeTransfer)[/url]

Some exported sequences and some DNG files to play with. All the info in the readme.txt.

1592x840 @ 24 fps - Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 @ f/8
1280x960 @ 24 fps - Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 + Kowa B&H 2x anamorphic - Stretched to 2560x960 in Premiere
And a sharpened 1920x720 version of that last one.
 
I love this :D
 

 
Just need to order some badges... :P

Oh dear.

I think the BMD 4K cam is their only camera product worth considering, but as mentioned above, it is still vaporware and BMD haven't earned particular faith in the timeliness dept now have they. I have the C100 + Ninja 2 which fully kitted is about the same price as the other options, and I also have the 5D3 as B-cam/stills. If I were to add a camera right now it would be the FS700 + Speedbooster so I could get overcrank with my EF glass.
 
The BMD 4K cam will one hopes give the best resolution of any of these choices but frankly the C100 + Ninja 2 resolution is essentially perfect at 1080p and the thing sees in the dark. One of the benefits of 4K is the ability to stabilize in post, but the BMD camera is so heavy and clunky that flying it on a steadicam is going to require a high-budget rig be aware. But the global shutter is nice. The sensor in the BMD 4K cam has been reported to have unimpressive dynamic range even though BMD is claiming 12 stops on their website (the C100 is also 12 stops at base ISO 850 into Canon Log). So I don't know how much RAW capability will buy you with the BMD 4K in practice, I imagine due to file size that cam will almost always be run in ProRes HQ just like my Ninja 2 is.
 
In the end I think the decision comes down to a few factors:
 
1) Are you really, actually, truly serious about working in 4K resolution right now? Who will be the consumer/outlet of this product?
2) Do stills matter to you?
3) Are you willing to wait an indeterminate number of months (years?) for the BMD 4K to actually get into your hands?
4) And wait for the bugs to be worked out (e.g. dropped frames, electronic lens support, etc.)
5) Is run-n-gun and rapid post turnaround important to you or are you willing to sacrifice efficiency and flexibility for the last bit of image quality?
6) Have you really sat down and totaled the cost of ownership of each of your options, in terms of CPU/GPU power, storage/memory, rigging, filters, audio, batteries, lighting (low-light capable cameras save you money there), accessories, etc.? Make a wish list/shopping cart for each option and ogle the damage.
 
My conclusion remains C100 + Ninja 2 is the best overall option for the money right now unless you need the overcrank (FS700) or stills (5D3, 1DX/1DC, D800). I don't see 4K as a practical reality currently for this budget range (cue howls from those with far more ambition than budget). But the BMD 4K is the first camera from them that might be desirable overall when it appears. A baby Scarlet I think, and I might rather have one than a Scarlet if it works well.

Peederj is a C100 owner.

I really wanted the Kineraw to succeed. But between BMPC and 5D3 they have rather little room to maneuver now, unless they can drop their price down to $2K.

Although I have general antipathy toward Blackmagic because of the way they overhyped and underdelivered the original BMCC, I have to admit their new 4K camera does look somewhat promising. The pocket camera and the small sensor originals are worthless doorstops. I would rather have even the hacked GH2 and much rather have the hacked 5D3.
 
The main problems with the 4K offering are the ergonomics still are ridiculous (how many cameras other than the iPhone don't have replaceable batteries ffs?) and I understand the dynamic range of that sensor is disappointing in practice. 12 stops may be a stretch to claim (we need independent tests). But the resolution should be good (if not true 4K...it should have more distinguishable pixels than 1080p at least...again we need tests) and it's better to be able to record ProRes onto commodity SSD than RAW onto CF. And maybe they will finally have more EF lenses working properly and firmware that lets you do absolute basics like review and erase and reformat the drives. And not suffer dropped frames, moire, etc. etc. that their earlier crude attempts at making a camera suffered from.
 
But Super35 global shutter 4K direct to ProRes on commodity media is a nice set of checkmarks for $4000, with a full version of Resolve in the tin. It's a competitor to the 5D3 RAW if it works well in practice and actually ships in quantity sometime this decade. The lack of jello and onboard ProRes makes it a worthy competitor to the KineRAW for those on the bleeding edge. But for those who can only afford one body the hacked 5D3 offers terrific stills, timelapse, SLR ergonomics, Canon professional build and service, mature ecosystem, etc. And it's here now.

There is one advantage of the 5d3 over Blackmagic, and that is that you can buy the canon off the shelf.
I am sure I am not the only person to cancel a preorder due to magic lanterns recent work with raw.

Everything else under $10K is going to. The 5D3 HDMI or RAW won't be as clean and high-res as we see but at least it can be wrenched into place to crosscut with it, especially when using Canon glass of the same marque (i.e. L's or non-L's). The RAW leaves lots of latitude to align with. The Panasonic color science is dismal, I mean, gross greenish yuck, you won't want that. I mean, look how lovely that C300 frame is, that's pro gear and the rest are hobby toys, including the clunky BMCC.
 
Consider avoiding 2000+ quid of disappointing "bargains" a 2000+ quid discount on something that's actually going to work.

The BMCC sCMOS have a dynamic range quoted at >16,000:1, 14bit is 16,384. So it is not 16 bit unless there is 2bit of noise.
 
http://www.scmos.com/files/high/scmos_white_paper_8mb.pdf

Of all the articles where you absolutely needed downloadable uncropped straight-from-camera files, this was the one.
 
We are given no even vague idea what those thumbnails were created from.
 
BTW the $5,500 C100 along with a $700 Ninja 2 uses the same sensor and a better codec than the C300.

Story matters most. Sorry.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Digic 5 is probably going to be Canon's main processor for many years as the Digic 4 was. And so its performance spec is probably well overbuilt for the current generation of cameras. We know now that the 5D3 was capable of a lot more than spec. I think we're only scratching the surface in fact...if it does 120fps 6K MJPEG I will be impressed but I won't think laws of physics will have been broken nor will I think the thing is going to melt down.
 
One thing we might discover is that some Digic 5 units (photogs call them "copies" for some reason, but that sounds like a knockoff to me) are higher spec than others just as we do with overclocked CPUs. But ML won't be overclocking the chip, just asking it to do more than normal. I think Canon is artificially scheduling the rollout of capability across a core technology cycle...and ML can skip us ahead a few years on Canon's roadmap. It isn't entirely Canon's fault...fast enough CF cards as we see aren't readily available yet and Canon wants to ensure everyone has a good experience.
 
Computer performance is an empirical thing. ML won't know what the system can do until it asks it to, and then as we see a lot of optimization can be done to do even more. The 1DC shows we can do 4K (8MP) MJPEG at 24fps with a couple Digic 5's. I have doubts that both Digic 5's are needed in fact...they might have chucked two in there just to make people think it was a more powerful body, and the heatsink in the 1DC is most likely just window dressing (there is no active cooling system or other improvement in heat dissipation out of the body, so what does it do exactly?). We know Canon indulges in kabuki theatre...it's established now. We can't defer to everything they do as being technically necessary. Let's see what ML can do with the 5D3. I think there are bigger surprises ahead.