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1D X has traces of 1D C firmware but Magic Lantern 'will never touch 1D series' as Canon threatens potential hackers with legal trouble

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Posted · Report post

That was not the discussion and I never disagreed with that. There's loads of products out there that I would love to have for half the price with the companies still being able to make a profit out of it, but the point is they cost what they cost and I can't afford them. They do have their reasons to price them like that, the main one being "because they can".

 

Threatening with or suggesting hacking those cameras as a solution and in our own benefit was my main issue with your post, as it is ethically and legally wrong. I know damn well Canon wouldn't take legal action against independent people hacking their cameras, but they could shut down a site like ML in a heartbeat if they wanted to. ML knows this and reminds its users constantly, they can barely afford a camera body let alone a trial.

 

Bruno. Listen before shouting nonsense. It isn't legally wrong. Ask Vitaliy. 100% legal. Magic Lantern as it stands does not modify the firmware code. It runs separately alongside it. Again the project is 100% legal and if Canon wanted to sue them, they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I hardly think "because we can" is a very strategic business decision. Also... You're trolling.

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It isn't about getting something for half price, it is about getting something which is fully enabled for the asking price (in the case of the 1D X) and not artificially crippled to protect some cynical business strategy.

 

Videographers and filmmakers who buy a 1D X are paying for hardware that does 4K video only for it to be disabled. If you disable such a big part of the camera, where's the discount? And don't say the 1D X should cost $12,000 and that $6k represents a discount, because it doesn't!

 

Had Canon no Cinema EOS line, they would have had 4K on the 1D X and we'd all be celebrating them and buying one.

 

Anyway 4K is the least of my worries. I still haven't even got dramatically improved 1080p from a DSLR yet which is why I am now a Blackmagic Cinema Camera shooter. People vote with their feet in the end, and the Japanese companies can play all the silly business games they like, let's see where it gets them. Total financial collapse is my bet.

 

Can you imagine Blackmagic or Red going to the effort of producing a hardware that performs to a certain high level then switching it off in firmware? It isn't business it's bullshit!

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Here's Magic Lantern status (from Alex the main programmer).  He is against touching the 1DX.  I cut and pasted below.  I included the web link. 

 

Don't forget that quite a few hacking projects had serious trouble not because the hackers infringed any copyrights (they didn't, as far as I could tell), but just because they made the job easier for those who wanted to pirate things. See Sklyarov, geohot, graf_chokolo, Sony's comments on 2012 DMCA exemptions etc.

So, just the possibility of making it easier for someone else to infringe Canon's copyrights (e.g. by porting the 1DC firmware) can bring us into big trouble if we would try to port ML on the 1Dx.

=> no ML on 1DX.


 

Quote
I'm of the same opinion, but I think we should use the firmware of these cameras to learn a bit more.
 

This is not OK under neither European nor US laws afaik, because we don't have a 1DX and we are not creating any interoperable product for it, so we don't have the right to reverse engineer it.

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Well if hacking the 1D X is illegal than the GH2 hacks and 5D Mark III hacks are too.

 

I can see absolutely no technical difference in enabling higher bitrates on the 5D to enabling 4K on the 1D C.

 

You're simply turning on existing functionality.

 

Alex I think is talking about a port of the 1D C firmware to the 1D X and that is rather different.

 

But if the 4K features are already in the 1D X and just turned off, then that is legally and technically the same as any other hack we've seen.

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Posted · Report post

Here's what another ML developer says,

g3gg0

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xx.gif
1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2012, 03:35:49 PM »
 
we fully understand your position and agree that that this lack of feature is disappointing.
also the technical aspects would be no big deal imho.

but i am sorry to tell you, the Magic Lantern team decided to *not* develop on EOS 1D series.
we devs all agree that this is a totally different price range and we would seriously deal in business cases where we dont want to be active.
see this as a political decision, but somewhere you have to say: "stop!" and the 1D is such one.

the discussion and decision *is* already made, so even your offer of a donation wouldnt change anything.
(i personally dont want to jump into a shark tank, even for money wink.gif )
i hope you understand our position.

but we of course will continue work on the 5D2, 5D3 and all the other models and will provide you
free feature upgrades for these caneras wink.gif

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Posted · Report post

It is a real shame that Canon's legal bluff has scared these guys off but I can understand their position, I wouldn't want to get into the politics of it either.

 

Still in my opinion I don't think it is illegal.

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Here's more info:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2812.0

 

Here's info on Clean Room Design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

 

The main point is Alex will not try the 1DX and will ban anyone on ML if they attempt. 

 

Note: page 2 Alex:

a1ex

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1dc and 1dx .. identical hardware .. just a firmware difference
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2012, 09:44:04 AM »
 
Don't worry, we won't do it.

I'd go as far as excluding from ML community any developer who would try to do something like this.

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Posted · Report post

What Canon are doing here makes no business sense to me. They make a healthy margin on the 1D X as it is at over $6k, imagine the sales leap had they enabled 4K video on it.

 

So they are going to sell how many 1D C's? 2000 of them? Mostly in one country. Does that seem like a good reason to piss off the 40,000 who would have bought a 1D X for 4K video? Does that seem like a good business decision, really?

 

 

How about you apply to canon for some sort of business position with your indepth analysis.

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... I never  signed or hereby acknowledged to any of the above at the time of purchasing any of Canon or other cameras.

Depending on principality it may not matter.

Here in US we do have "Digital Millenium Act".

You haven't signed it. I haven't signed it.

 

But Congress - did.

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Posted · Report post

Essentially when you can produce a camera that does 4K and make a nice profit on it at $6k, it just shows how weak the competition is when Canon can still be a market leader and DISABLE the entire feature, instead selling it for double the price to a select few. 4K isn't mainstream yet, but when it is Canon won't be able to sell a 4K DSLR for $6000 let alone $12,000.

 

When competition catches up, they'll lower the price and make adjustement. It doesn't make logical sense to do it earlier. It's like me saying competition is weak in video market cause you guys charge sooo muuch for your work. In the future, when we have raw in iphones and 1000x more processing power + many more educated ppl in video industry you won't be able to sell your work at current prices. LMAO.

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When competition catches up, they'll lower the price and make adjustement. It doesn't make logical sense to do it earlier. It's like me saying competition is weak in video market cause you guys charge sooo muuch for your work. In the future, when we have raw in iphones and 1000x more processing power + many more educated ppl in video industry you won't be able to sell your work at current prices. LMAO.

 

 

For the same reason, we'll probably see the new 5D3 firmware(or 5DC) about the time BMC starts producing in volume.

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In the future, when we have raw in iphones and 1000x more processing power + many more educated ppl in video industry you won't be able to sell your work at current prices. LMAO.

 

Live by copyright, die by copyright ;)

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