The Aesthetic (part 2)

[kye]

There is a time for a clean aesthetic.  There is a time for a more timeless more filmic aesthetic.  There are times for a far grittier aesthetic too.

Those who have been following my other thread will know I've mostly got my travel / walk-around AF setup nailed.  
(GH7 and GX85 bodies combined with the 14-140mm zoom, 12-35mm F2.8 zoom, 9mm F1.7, and 14mm F2.5 pancake lens)
This setup will give a relatively clean starting point which can be graded to create a pretty wide range of looks.  

However, not everything can be achieved in post.

I have also collected a bunch of modern MF lenses and vintage lenses over the years and these might be useful in creating other looks that I can't do in post with the above kit.  So I'm trying to work out if I should just archive them or if they're still good for anything I want to do, and if so, what might that be?

I've looked through my continually growing collection of lens comparisons, but found nothing conclusive.  Thus begins a moderately sized lens / camera test...

The setups included in the test are below.  The details in brackets are the FF equivalents.  

• OG BMPCC + 12-35mm F2.8 (35-100mm F8.0)
  This setup is included as I think it will be a reference for the rest of the setups (at worst) and might end up becoming part of my standard kit (at best).
   
• GF3 + 15mm F8 (30mm F16)
  This setup is included as it's essentially a modern Super-8mm camera, and considering it is absolutely tiny and takes the same batteries as the GX85 it's almost inconsequential to bring on a trip.
   
• GX85 with:
  • Modern: Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 (24-70mm F5.6)
  • Modern: Panasonic 14mm F2.5 (28mm F5)
  • Modern: Panasonic 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 (28-84mm F7.0-11.2)
  • Modern MF: TTartisans 17mm F1.4 (34mm F2.8)
  • Vintage: Cosmicar 12.5mm F1.9 SB (36mm F5.5)
  • Modern MF: Voigtlander 17.5mm F0.95 (35mm F1.9)
  • Vintage: SB + Yashica 28mm F2.8 (40mm F4.0)
  • Vintage: SB + Tokina 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 (40-100mm F5.0-6.4)
  • Vintage: SB + Takumar 35mm F3.5 (50mm F5)
  • Vintage: SB + Mir-1B 37mm F2.8 (53mm F4)
  • Vintage: SB + Takumar 55mm F1.8 (78mm F2.6)
  • Vintage: SB + Helios 44M 58mm F2.0 (82mm F2.8)
  • Modern MF: Voigtländer 42.5mm f0.95 (85mm F1.9)
  • Modern MF: TTartisans 50mm f1.2 (100mm F2.4)

I haven't included all my lenses, but the ones I have omitted have been included in other tests previously and are broadly similar to ones I have included, so if they become interesting as a result of this test I have some more reference materials. 

I watched a doco on Netflix the other day called Attack on London, and was really inspired by the look of the 'recreation' images they have obviously filmed for the doc, and seem to have used one of the filthiest anamorphic lenses around (and potentially added more dirt in post as well).  Here are some screenshots..  These might not have been streamed at the highest bitrate available, but I don't care - they look great and have so much texture and feel.

This isn't the exact aesthetic I'm going for, but it's one that I saw recently that has a lot of texture and FEEL.  My hope is to work out what the ingredients are to getting this kind of feel and then work out when I would want it and then work backwards to what equipment and processes I'd use to get it.

My initial impressions (guesses) are that the ingredients are:

• shallower DoF
• lower levels of sharpness
• decent amounts of grain
• film colours (especially having a tint and having subtractive sat)

The above images have more elements to them than this, but I don't care much for things like CA etc, so I don't think they're part of the minimum required elements.

I plan to shoot comparisons with the setups above in a range of different scenarios and then see what I can see, before moving onto the post workflows and what role those play.

[QuickHitRecord]

I always enjoy your posts, Kye. Threads like this are keeping this forum alive.

This new Resolve plugin seems relevant to the discussion. I just downloaded a copy of this last night and had a play. It can't really affect bokeh much without a depth map (as shown, you can have AI generate one for you in Resolve), but even without it, the other characteristics can help create a unique aesthetic. It's a handy tool to have for those projects that won't allow for real vintage glass to be used -- which at least for me, seems to be most of them these days.

[maxJ4380]

kye does your takumar 35mm f3.5 have any yellowing ? the reason i ask is I'm looking at 35mm takumars for that reason (thorium lenses i believe) rather than doing it in post. It will probably end up a one trick pony however i think i can live with that. 

 

9 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

 It's a handy tool to have for those projects that won't allow for real vintage glass to be used -- which at least for me, seems to be most of them these days.

Is that a client constraint ?

[QuickHitRecord]

4 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

Is that a client constraint ?

It's exceedingly rare that a client will ask for an aesthetic that allows me to dust off my vintage lenses.

And on the passion project side, I've shot four of five of my last narrative shorts with Canon zooms. The next one will be with a Canon zoom as well. That decision was based on speed, convenience, and the fact that I trust modern AF much more than a friend who has been given an hour of instruction on pulling focus, changing lenses, and calibrating motors. Of course, I'd rather have a professional 1st AC and some more interesting lenses. But there aren't that many of them around anymore (at least not in my market) and the pros that we do have usually don't want to cut their rates to work on a no-budget film. It's the same reason that I sold my RED cameras. They just weren't getting any use.

[kye]

14 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

I always enjoy your posts, Kye. Threads like this are keeping this forum alive.

This new Resolve plugin seems relevant to the discussion. I just downloaded a copy of this last night and had a play. It can't really affect bokeh much without a depth map (as shown, you can have AI generate one for you in Resolve), but even without it, the other characteristics can help create a unique aesthetic. It's a handy tool to have for those projects that won't allow for real vintage glass to be used -- which at least for me, seems to be most of them these days.

Interesting video, and I guess it really shows what can and cannot be done in post.

I have played with the AI depth mapping in Resolve in the past (maybe v18 or v19 but not v20) and I found that it was worse than the iPhone portrait mode, so wasn't really usable in most uncontrolled situations.  I suspect it will eventually get good enough to use, but I don't think that will happen that quickly.

The rest of the effects are already doable in Resolve if you're willing to do them the manual way with power-windows and plugins, but this tool is probably worth it if you wanted to do it fast or if you wanted a specific aesthetic.  Interesting demo though, and for what it does it seems pretty good.

5 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

kye does your takumar 35mm f3.5 have any yellowing ? the reason i ask is I'm looking at 35mm takumars for that reason (thorium lenses i believe) rather than doing it in post. It will probably end up a one trick pony however i think i can live with that. 

No, I just went and looked and while both the 55mm F1.8 and also the Mir-1B next to it have some yellowing, with the Takumar having more than the Mir, my Tak 35mm F3.5 doesn't appear to have any.  However, be mindful that it's pretty easy to get rid of any yellowing in these lenses (IIRC even by just leaving the lens in the sun for a while) so mine might simply have been treated.

[kye]

An update on my testing.

I was thinking about what I wanted - something low quality in the optical path to dirty up the image a bit, and then it struck me - what I want is a cheap wide angle adapter!  Then I remembered I had bought one years ago and went and found it and gave it a go.

It's too small for most of my lenses (it's 52mm but most of my lenses are 58mm) but is a cheap 0.45x wide angle adapter so I shot some quick tests.  Here are some direct with/without comparisons to give an idea of what does.  These are all SOOC so ignore the incorrect WB settings and mismatched exposures etc.  All lenses are wide open.

GX85 + 14mm F2.5 without adapter:

GX85 + 14mm F2.5 WITH adapter:

Very interesting and definitely makes the image wider.  If I use a zoom then I can match the framing and we can get a more direct comparison.

GX85 + 12-35mm F2.8 at 12mm without adapter:

GX85 + 12-35mm F2.8 at ~18mm WITH adapter:

GX85 + 12-35mm F2.8 at ~25mm without adapter:

GX85 + 12-35mm F2.8 at 35mm WITH adapter:

Very interesting results and in the direction I'm going for.  As a proof of concept it definitely has promise, but I'd need to buy one correctly sized of course.

BUT, then I put it on the TTartisans 50mm F1.2 and fully wide open (of course!) basically all hell breaks loose!

GX85 + TTartisans 50mm F1.2 without adapter:

GX85 + TTartisans 50mm F1.2 WITH adapter:

It's obviously not rated for F1.2 lenses!!

The bokeh is also heavily modified too, which the above images hint at, but check this out....

GX85 + TTartisans 50mm F1.2 without adapter:

GX85 + TTartisans 50mm F1.2 WITH adapter:

These are the sorts of things you can't do with plugins, so this is what I'd be chasing real optics to do.

However, the most interesting thing about a wide angle adapter is that it's basically a speed booster, so you get more light into the lenses and you also get a wider angle of view, which means that to get the same angle of view with the adapter you can use longer lenses, which can give shallower DOF for a given f-stop.  Double bonus for MFT!

So, I ordered the cheapest 58mm wide angle adapter I could find, and ordered the cheapest vND I could find to fit it (as the fronts are larger than the rear which makes it larger than my good vND.

Oh yeah, and I also watched a bunch of reviews of anamorphic adapters and after seeing the prices (wow!) I just ordered a Sirui 1.25x anamorphic adapter, which is the cheapest of the bunch by a long shot.  I'm not really that interested in the streaks but the softening and edge distortions should be great, and it's also like a horizontal-only speed booster so will let me use longer lenses for the same FOV.

[maxJ4380]

I did some research some time ago from what i have read raynox are the wide angle adapter of choice. If you are keen to go further maybe do a little of your own research.