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Andrew Reid

Raw goes mainstream - Adobe Premiere CC native Cinema DNG support tried and tested!

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Isn't ProRes 4444 overkill for this type of source? In my tests I found ProRes HQ to be virtually identical to the source.

444 is overkill if just being used as a proxy before the online, but not overkill if any type of grading will be done to the 444, in that case it's better than hq.

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According to Dave McGavran over on Creative Cow, Adobe has only implemented cinemaDNG playback in this update and not raw capabilities. That is something they are working on for future updates. Would have been nice if they were upfront about this ahead of time, but there it is.

Basic functionality first, more robust capabilities later.

 

 

What we are releasing it the initial support and playback of CinemaDNG. We know it is missing the RAW settings. What we did is create a ground up performant playback engine for CinemaDNG that we can continue to develop on. After Effects still has the Camera Raw style plugins.

Cheers
Dave

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David McGavran, Adobe Systems Incorporated
Senior Engineering Manager Adobe Premiere Pro
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Ah of course, playback is pretty good.

 

You can just highlight the whole sequence and replace with After Effects comp when you're done. Then all the shots appear in AE for grading.

 

Apparently Speedgrade is now realtime too (as in you link to shots in Premiere) but I've not tried it...

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Even if the footage looks kinda blah, it should be good enough for editing I would think (hope). That way I suppose one can skip the whole Proxy step, and send the XML back into Resolve for final grading without having to worry about reconnecting the right files.

 

I was looking forward to this update so edit a short video essay that I just shot in Italy...now I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should consider editing it in Resolve since the new version allows for basic editing within the app? Anyone have experience editing in Resolve 10?

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I am using 5dII dng files and i can not get a single dng to import nevermind a sequence.  I'm confused because i thought it was ONLY black magic camera that was supported.  Says no media data when i import. 

 

For you getting it to work can you make corrections in ACR and have them recognized?  If I could just avoid the export to TIF sequences that would save me a lot of time. 

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You can just highlight the whole sequence and replace with After Effects comp when you're done. Then all the shots appear in AE for grading.

 

Really?  I still can't get it to import more than the first DNG in the sequence into AE when I right click "replace with AE comp". Is there a setting I'm missing somewhere? 

 

Adam

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1) What editable format are you converting to? Pro-Res possibly?

2) Are you using a Plug-In within After Effects to convert the RAW? If so, is there a Batch convert option which is pretty important. For my experience, After Effects is generally a 1 clip (non-batch) type of deal which would obviously be a pain for lots of clips.

 

 

Gene- currently AE with ACR provides the best results for RAW (have been using it with 5D3; probably will wait for the compressed codec option before 7Q purchase (for FS700). Resolve 10 does have a nice new de-Bayer sharpen option but not a de-Bayer denoise option (very important to do during de-Bayer vs. after). The ACR denoise of RAW does a better job than Neat Video (and is ultimately faster, workflow-wise).

 

On Windows I AE render to 175Mbit/s 422 10-bit DNxHD, which is excellent quality. Would only use 444 if doing green screen (DNxHD 444 is 440Mbit/s (10-bit)). ProRes HQ should be fine unless doing green screen (even HQ might be overkill (220Mbit/s vs. 145Mbit/s regular). ProRes 4444 is VBR, looks like around 440Mbit/s and up to 12-bit. After fixing highlights and shadows in ACR, I have found 10-bit to be plenty good for final editing.

 

In AE make sure to set the project bit depth to 16 (bottom of Project Pane next to trashcan icon). You can add all of your ACR adjusted clips to the render queue, then fire it off in one batch.

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Man you guys should try Capture One. 

 

If a speedy workflow is your flavor however, it's the scenic route.  It has Cine DNG support.  To me it looks like the best debayering I've seen between it, ACR, and Resolve.  The default denoise setting it loads with does a better job holding detail and removing static than anything else i've messed with.  When you pixel peep up close, you see grain, not mosquitos.  The layout is very easy.  It works with the same concept of ACR for the most part if you prefer that, only you grade one frame, select which frames (or all) that you want to apply it to, and done.  (Every frame is visible as a thumbnail at the bottom). 

 

When i'm done, I export the whole sequence to a new folder as 16 bit TIFF files at full resolution.  I don't use Premiere, so I can't say whether it has the option to import a TIFF sequence like AE does.  In AE however, I tweak, filmconvert, etc until I get the master files, and export Pro Res for editing. 

 

I know, crazy storage whore of a workflow, but Capture One is fantastic in terms of the front line.. especially BMCC stuff.

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OK... so i'm a little unclear here.  What's causing the pink magenta cast in premiere?  is it the Raw Magic conversion process that's adding it?  or is it the original Raw file created by magic lantern software?   Just wondering who will be trying to figure out a solution to this... cause i don't have faith that adobe's going to go out of their way to support a hacked version of the canon camera.  So is it something, in your collective opinion, that can be fixed on the magic lantern or raw magic end?

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OK... so i'm a little unclear here. What's causing the pink magenta cast in premiere? is it the Raw Magic conversion process that's adding it? or is it the original Raw file created by magic lantern software? Just wondering who will be trying to figure out a solution to this... cause i don't have faith that adobe's going to go out of their way to support a hacked version of the canon camera. So is it something, in your collective opinion, that can be fixed on the magic lantern or raw magic end?


Resolve jumped onboard with ML raw support. I don't think Adobe have ironed out much of anything on this update other than just basic playback. I've heard several people talk about their footage being pink in Premiere, but I've also had to adjust the tint on ML raw dng sequences on import myself in AE. Debayering... I agree with Andrew though. They need to just add ACR. It's theirs...it works, lol. Pretty simple. AE imports dng's just fine, why not just add it to Premiere?

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Resolve jumped onboard with ML raw support. I don't think Adobe have ironed out much of anything on this update other than just basic playback. I've heard several people talk about their footage being pink in Premiere, but I've also had to adjust the tint on ML raw dng sequences on import myself in AE. Debayering... I agree with Andrew though. They need to just add ACR. It's theirs...it works, lol. Pretty simple. AE imports dng's just fine, why not just add it to Premiere?

 

So are Blackmagic cinema camera DNG sequences also importing into premiere with this pink cast?   Or is it just something that the ML raw DNG's are doing?

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So are Blackmagic cinema camera DNG sequences also importing into premiere with this pink cast?   Or is it just something that the ML raw DNG's are doing?


I'm gonna have to get back to you on that one. I haven't used PP with my bmcc stuff yet.

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OK... so i'm a little unclear here.  What's causing the pink magenta cast in premiere?  is it the Raw Magic conversion process that's adding it?  or is it the original Raw file created by magic lantern software?


My guess, Premiere assumes to low a sensor saturation point so consequent R, G & B channels can't be scaled correctly to suit the camera raw source, similar to green shadows from assuming wrong black level.

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Canon jpegs and video have always had a magenta cast to them. No, not as extreme as seen in the ML DNGs, but it's still there. My theory is it's the combination of gathering Raw data via ML and the little bit of internal camera processing the file must go through that leaves the magenta cast. One doesn't see the same color bias in the Canon produced Raw stills, so I'd bet there are just a few finishing tweaks that must be bypassed in order to capture video frame rates.

 

BUT DON'T WORRY, there's nothing "wrong" with the files, when you import a frame into Lightroom you see the green/magenta adjustment slider (under White Balance) is pushed heavily into magenta. So, it's just a quick and simple setting adjustment to fix the color cast.

 

So, the pink is NOT the result of a bad Debayering algorithm, Lightroom has some of the best Debayering algorithms ever created, it's just a slight miscalculation of one setting in the metadata.

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