Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
/p/

Color Grade My GH3 Footage!!

Recommended Posts

Hi,
 
I find the video overexposed by at least half a stop. You would get much richer color this way, even more important on a sunset. You also need to know if it is more important to see all the details in the bush at the bottom rich and behind the rock or if it is all the details in the sky.
 
Also, I didn't try personnaly the GH series but I would not tune down the saturation, you should not gain anything. I would keep it at zero. Increasing it however should reduce the dynamic range, so it is not a good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

On the back of being told from various sellers at BVE the other day, and from the guys on the Blackmagic stand, that the BMCC with MFT mount won't be available until the end of the summer, or at least until all the EF mount back orders have been filled, I have taken the plunge and ordered the GH3.

 

Thought I'd chime in with my grading test of /P/'s footage. I just graded the Natural clip with FCPX's colour board to see how far I could take it excessively. Wonder if Neat Video would improve the noise?

 

Your all welcome to download and watch. You can definitely bring a nice image back from the shadow area...

 

wetransfer download link...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my go at a simple grade.  My objective was to give it a warm inviting feeling.  I may have pushed the colours a little too far, not entirely sure.

 

I used MB Colorista II for this one.  I used a powermask to bring back some of the sky's natural cool tones farther from the sun.

 

https://vimeo.com/60835279

 

The password is: /p/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried to cc this footage & there was something seriously lacking with it (really lacklustre) - i just couldn't get it to do what i wanted (will give it another go, as i probably gave up too quickly).

Just think that the 8-bit quality does need a little help & the theory that flat is best is probably the most misguided advice for DSLRs. You simply can't put back in stuff that isn't there in the first place - this isn't RAW. So dialing down everything, IMO, isn't helping anything, its disabling you. With a DSLR you should try to get it as perfect as possible & then tweek it in post - 8-bit isn't that flexible before it falls apart on you.

Was also a bit confused why there was noise at iso 200?

 

Maybe i'll change my mind, but i'm not overly impressed with GH3.

No criticism of your footage intended (as i don't think there is anything wrong with it - just the theory behind it) & I was really grateful to have something to play with.

 

Thanks, it was really good & brave of you to do this.

 

Perhaps we could all do this more regularly, so we can really test out cameras before we take the plunge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally agree! It would be great to have an EOSHD sub forum like Screening Room, called Footage Sharing or similar, where people put up Wetransfer link in individual threads. I'd love to play with BMD, 5D Mkii GH3 etc with my own software and hardware...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be great to have an EOSHD sub forum like Screening Room, called Footage Sharing or similar, where people put up Wetransfer link in individual threads. I'd love to play with BMD, 5D Mkii GH3 etc with my own software and hardware...

 

Great idea. I would like to see this as well.

 

But until we get it... for those who are curious, here are the Nikon D5200 camera tests that I shot this week (H264 files out of the camera): https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9ZhDqZ6DYvfN2c3eHJsMFBhM2s/edit?usp=sharing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only problem is people being brave enough to do it.

Perhaps if we start then others will follow suit?

 

(Just as i type QHR gets right in there - nice one!)

 

My problem is i've only got a 60D & don't trust reviews or should that be, bored of reading loads of them to form a reasoned opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just think that the 8-bit quality does need a little help & the theory that flat is best is probably the most misguided advice for DSLRs. You simply can't put back in stuff that isn't there in the first place - this isn't RAW. So dialing down everything, IMO, isn't helping anything, its disabling you. With a DSLR you should try to get it as perfect as possible & then tweek it in post - 8-bit isn't that flexible before it falls apart on you.

 

I couldn't agree more.  I understand the idea of shooting at low contrast levels to gain DR, but all too often people seem to just leave it as low as it goes without ever changing it.  It's something that should be adjusted for each shot to get the most out of those 8 bits.  One thing I REALLY don't understand is why anyone would dial down the saturation of a clip.  How often do you even come close to clipping the chroma channels?  I believe this is one of the most misunderstood parts of DSLR video.

 

In this case, a lower contrast was clearly needed and /p/ was right to keep it low.  But it's really not a one size fits all kind of setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bingo!

Saturation is important for colour, you simply shouldn't get rid of as much as you can (the footage provided here was meant to be a Sunset/Rise - but getting those lovely colours back was near impossible).

Contrast is fine all the way down.

Also, if the GH series of cameras give better resolution & are sharper, why dial it down all the way just to re-sharpen in post? That just seems pointless to me & yes i do understand that they can over sharpen in-camera.

 

Now Canon cameras don't have the resolution of GH's, but even so i never dial it down all the way - since on an APS-C sensor you actually seem to loose even more detail at 0 (1,2 or 3 if you must).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, if the GH series of cameras give better resolution & are sharper, why dial it down all the way just to re-sharpen in post? That just seems pointless to me & yes i do understand that they can over sharpen in-camera.

 

Stu Maschwitz from prolost.com talks about the implications of in-camera sharpening on his blog.  He brings up some interesting points.  The conclusion that he makes is that in-camera sharpening should be completely avoided (not even one tick above the minimum should be used).

 

http://prolost.com/blog/2012/4/10/prolost-flat.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ JamesH - that's for the 5D's FF sensor & for some reason it seems to behave differently to the APS-C - well it has in the tests that i (& other people) have done. I can't remember which forum it was on, but a few of us came to the conclusion that 1 or 2 (I use 1 normally & 2 for distance shots) were the best settings for an APS-C sensor, it brought back some detail that was missing at 0.

 

@toxotis70 - I do understand that, but not all situations present these problems & i'm very careful to avoid them like the plague. Also, that's where using shallow depth of field comes into play.

 

On a similar note, there's a few guys on vimeo that recommend using a Black Pro Mist filter - their stuff looks stunning!

vimeo.com/39108335

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I REALLY don't understand is why anyone would dial down the saturation of a clip. How often do you even come close to clipping the chroma channels? I believe this is one of the most misunderstood parts of DSLR video.


The care needs to be taken not with whether 'chroma clips' as chroma is a YCbCr concept, but the resultant RGB values generated when doing probably 90% of the color processing in a NLE or grading app, once the luma and chroma planes are combined to generate RGB that's when 'channels' get clipped. Compounded by using a typical 8 or 16bit mode to do the color conversion, invalid RGB values created leading to abnormalities in color, gamma and overall 'quality' of the resultant image.

Chroma is nothing without the addition of luma.

So 'shooting flat' is a consideration to make. Doing own tests help decide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The care needs to be taken not with whether 'chroma clips' as chroma is a YCbCr concept, but the resultant RGB values generated when doing probably 90% of the color processing in a NLE or grading app, once the luma and chroma planes are combined to generate RGB that's when 'channels' get clipped. Compounded by using a typical 8 or 16bit mode to do the color conversion, invalid RGB values created leading to abnormalities in color, gamma and overall 'quality' of the resultant image.

 

That's a good point @yellow.  But I think I might have a solution.  I'm not sure how other NLEs work, but with Premiere Pro, there is an effect called "Fast Color Corrector" that does all its functions within the Y'CbCr colour space.  Therefore, you could reduce the saturation of a shot before applying any other effects.  This prevents you from locking in a saturation value that could potentially be too low and maintains a higher bit depth.

 

Basically, by keeping the saturation from going too low in-camera, we're protecting the colour information which we could reduce in post if need be.  I've experimented with different saturation values before and I have a post on DVXuser discussing the results.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?300891-Quick-Comparison-of-the-Picture-Profiles-on-the-NEX-5N/page2

I'm using the NEX-5N and I found that boosting the saturation to its maximum in-camera produced better results than reducing it to its minimum.  Obviously, I wouldn't set the saturation so high in a real life setting, but it helps to exaggerate the results.

 

 

 

that's for the 5D's FF sensor & for some reason it seems to behave differently to the APS-C

 

I'm pretty sure it varies from sensor to sensor.  I'm assuming that in this case you're talking about Canon APS-C (550D - 650D, 60D, 7D).  I think you're right about having to test it out for each camera.  For example, with my Sony, I couldn't see any added aliasing artefacts when sharpness was set anywhere from -3 to -1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@yellow, Adobe Premiere Pro CS6, "Render at Maximum Depth" enabled.

 

When you get the time to look at it, notice how the increased saturation clip helps distinguish the skin tones from the yellow wall behind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@James, will do.

I guess all filters in PP CS5 onwards are 32bit?

Regarding YCC vs RGB, if you have time it would be interesting to see if FCC clips or not, I guess it doesn't but all the same its quick to test.

I don't have PP, heres a link to a full range file similar to the NEX5n:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g10sawbxva70luq/fullrangetest.zip

If you use the full range mp4 in the zip, when added to the timeline it should appear as black and white horizontal bars, but the Y waveform should show levels above and below 0 - 100, dropping a levels filter and remapping levels into typical 0 - 255 into 16 - 235 should make the 16 and 255 text appear?

Disable the levels filter and add Fast Color Corrector in between the levels filter and the clip, make slight adjust to FCC and then reenable the levels filter, do you still see the 16 and 255 text?

If it doesn't then the FCC is clipping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use the full range mp4 in the zip, when added to the timeline it should appear as black and white horizontal bars, but the Y waveform should show levels above and below 0 - 100, dropping a levels filter and remapping levels into typical 0 - 255 into 16 - 235 should make the 16 and 255 text appear?

Disable the levels filter and add Fast Color Corrector in between the levels filter and the clip, make slight adjust to FCC and then reenable the levels filter, do you still see the 16 and 255 text?

If it doesn't then the FCC is clipping.

 

With the FCC applied, the values above and below 100 & 0 are still maintained in the waveform.  And, just as you predicted, the values mapped perfectly to 16 - 235.  These results are expected since the FCC is a 32-bit float effect.

 

In PP, there's a little tag that appears next to effects to show whether they're 32-bit, hardware accelerated, and whether they maintain the Y'CbCr colour space.  FCC, RGB Curves, Luma Curve and Three-Way Color Corrector all have these tags.  I often use MB Colorista II to correct and grade my footage.  Colorista is 32-bit, but it's not hardware accelerated, nor does it maintain the Y'CbCr space.  So applying the FCC to adjust the saturation before applying Colorista is probably the best way to go.

 

Which NLE & effects do you use?  (FCP7, FCPX, Avid MC...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...