MrSMW

The main + points for me are: 60mp = great ability to crop and even in APSC mode, that’s still a more detailed 26mp file compared with a FF 24mp. Tilt screen. Yay. Not a flippy flappy. Double yay. Smaller & lighter. More yays. PDAF = yay. The negative points for me = €7k (but bodes well for something similar around 1/2 the price from Lumix?) and no option for anything like either of the following; Canon’s 24-105mm f2.8 Tamron’s 70-180mm f2.8 A lens similar to either of these is THE fundamental weak spot for me with L Mount.

All I know is I want a Nikon BASTARD now.

All I know about overheating is this: Sony ZV1 on tripod, indoors, ambient around 25-30c = approx 20 minutes max and it's cooked. Lumix S1H on tripod, direct sun, 40+ in the shade = either the battery or the card will run out first. The obvious conclusion (in general) is if you need reliability in this department, a heat sink at least is a must and ideally, a fan. Or live above 66° 33'N.

Same for many of us Kye, but pertaining to our own needs and we often use this place as both a sounding board and place to ramble and go down rabbit holes. And that's all good. I'm in a place where I have been frustrated with the tools since about 2010 because for my specific needs, nothing really existed that was 'perfect for my needs' until around 2020/21. But that then coincided with 2 years of Covid that caused so many issues, one of them being 'sending' me on a tangent I would not have otherwise gone on. That tangent is called L Mount. Great video specs, but the reality has been not a single body from Lumix, Leica or Sigma that has met my needs and only a couple of lenses. Chasing the holy grail? Nope, because both the bodies and the lenses 'perfect for my needs' exist with 4 other manufacturers. So why not just bin L Mount lock stock and barrel and just flip to one of those? €€€€€ or lack thereof in '23 and '24 and quite probably '25. Regret L Mount? Regret is the wrong word and for the video side, I can't fault it. S1H + S5ii. For pure stills, can't fault it. S1H. For my specific hybrid work though, that is where it falls short as the combo of body and lens options I need (NEED), are too big and too heavy for the the duration I use them for. I can get the result out of it I need, but the process is far from ideal. So my answer to my own personal frustration/conundrum, has been to keep only the L Mount kit I absolutely need for my video work, and invest all of what I sold with some cash, into a Nikon + adapted E Mount solution for my stills. My 'ideal' still does not exist. As above, that would be the Sigma FP-X and the contemporary lenses. My 'perfect' set up...except the body does not exist and possibly never will. I can do it with Canon with the least amount of kit, but with the largest units and most cost...and a cost I cannot afford. I can do another version totally in E Mount and it actually has a lot of appeal, but again, cost. Fuji offer everything I need now and has HUGE appeal, but again, cost. Nikon also have it, combined with E Mount and is at this time, by far and away the most affordable route. It could be my standalone option next year, but we'll see. In the meantime, like you and many others, I muse over options and that's cool even if some folks don't like it!

Oh I get it Kye. I’m just musing along various trains of thought more than anything but always with at least a nod to the OP and the post. For sure if I did not need to earn a living from my kit, OM-1 with 12-40mm f2.8 would be my one and done right now. Something longer I keep on a shelf but bring to that safari adventure, but otherwise, other than the lack of dual ISO, it’s a brilliant little thing.

I suspect there would not have been a G9ii of they had not done it in existing FF S5 body… I will be surprised to see another unique M4/3 body from Lumix going forward… No idea what the official sales figures are, but I would not be surprised if it’s been a steady downward decline in sales of both M4/3 bodies and lenses. We know that overall sales of all cameras is down over the last decade, especially at the lower priced and more compact end of the market. Logic and basic economics suggests to me if the market is in decline as I believe it is, then so is investment. For my needs, we have already reached ‘peak camera’ in various forms such as a system exists for me now with; Nikon, Fuji, Sony and Canon, but sadly not within L Mount. That’s 3x FF brands/systems and 2x APSC with small compromises that make little to know difference between FF and APSC, but M4/3 is too big. For me. For my needs. YMMV. For me personally, the current conundrum and potential future one, is how much smaller and lighter can we get this stuff without sacrificing performance? For me, switching to a (much) smaller sensor is not a viable option and neither is swapping out an f2.8 for an f4 or something even slower. But none of it matters as I have very good options for this coming season that suit me very well and all I am personally interested in for the future is can I get the same performance out of a smaller & lighter set up? Probably… Can I afford to do it? Maybe… Am I going to do it? Almost certainly, but not in ‘24!

If only the 60mp FP-L had: IBIS 4k 50/60p A tilt screen No banding with stills under certain lighting conditions. It would be my forever system. The f2 lenses are gems and the f2.8 90mm can easily crop for all my needs well past ‘150mm’ with 60mp. I know there is an aftermarket option for the tilt screen, but it’s not enough to sway me as there are just too many compromises for me. But if Sigma do bring out another and it fixes at least 2 of my above 4 ‘issues’, everything gets packaged up and sent to MBP. But are Sigma going to even make another camera ever again or is it just lenses now?

That would be interesting as they stated officially there would be no more small (or compact anyway) cameras. But there are indeed some very valid FF body/lens combos now that are not exactly massive and bigger/longer lenses can be compensated for with cropping, ie, larger sensors and AI etc... Sony A7RV for instance is basically the same weight as my S5ii and Z6ii, but smaller and with 2.5x the sensor size. They can be had for a little over 3k euros from reputable dealers with warranty used in 'like new' condition and when you compare it size-wise with say the OM-1 M4/3 camera, it's spec and real world capability are just nuts. With E Mount, there are also the largest range of smaller lenses from any other FF manufacturer. I went Z6ii with Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 myself as the best compromise of cost vs size/weight vs outright ability for my needs, but could easily have made a case for the A7RV with the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 which in APSC mode produces a more detailed 26mp file at an equivalent focal length around 40-110mm so a bit shorter, but I could make that work because I could crop a bit harder still and really, only I would know. M4/3 is up against it IMO though. Always has been. Ever more so. It's advantage was size & weight (or lack of) and with older stuff, that can still be the case, but the move forward that many have needed on the tech side, have come at the cost of it's primary appeal. APSC is still a good shout though with Fuji and Sony leading the way. Canon I don't think have the lenses and no one else is really in the game. Sometimes, a clean sheet is the answer, but for most of us, pro or otherwise, we can't easily do that.

“All I want is the perfect camera”. I hear you. We should add the word ‘system’ after the word camera because there is too much emphasis on the body, but if the glass is not there… The best F1 car on normal road tires is a nicely painted tin can. I wish M4/3 could work for me as it’s primary appeal is the size & weight but the reality is the kit I would want is the bigger stuff, the OM-1 or G9ii and the 10-25 + 25-50 zooms and we’re talking as big as FF with a number of performance deficiencies in comparison. Discounting MF, at FF we have everything I want and need, but at the most weight, size and cost. APSC still seems to be the sweet spot for me, all factors considered and I am pretty sure that with a clean sheet and a reasonable budget for 2024 (I have neither) then I would go back to Fuji who have come good since I left the system at the end of 2020. 2021 the XT4 was the new boy and was just about where I needed the body side of the equation and they already had the glass and since then, Tamron joined the party. Fxxking Cxvid. If that arsehole had not come along, I would still be a Fuji dude. At heart, I think I still am.

With respect Matt, look at the use case. The FF S5 is slightly smaller & lighter than the M4/3 GH5, but this is now rigging it out. I suspect even the OM-1 is verging on the ‘plump’ side of the equation for Mr Kye, though personally for me it’s a good sweet spot of capability vs size, weight and handling. And then there are the lenses… S5 + Lidar, may as well go S5ii or for M4/3, the G9ii. I can’t speak for Kye but I suspect this stuff is all getting on the larger size. Other than the lack of dual ISO (I thought the OM-1 had that but maybe not then) a used EM5ii looks great value at only a couple of hundred on the used market. How important is dual ISO @kye ?

Well secretly… I had a pair of EM5 ii’s for a year for my ‘pro’ video work and used for some ‘pro’ photo, looking at going even smaller and lighter than Fuji X APSC. But in the end decided that using that P word, although the output was good and loved the size, weight and build, it was not quite ‘P’ enough for my needs. When the OM-1 came out, I trialed that and once again, loved everything about it except for that final X amount of P’ness. (Do not read that out loud). If however, I wanted a hybrid system and not a working P, I’d invest in a small system based around the OM-1. Probably with the 12-40mm f2.8 as my main lens and something longer if I went on safari or was interested in birds. The feathered type. I am very much interested in the featherless variety, but from within legal parameters. I do not wish to ever become a person of interest to the feds. There is also the current OM-5 which is kind of like a smaller, lesser OM-1, but then may as well go for a dirt cheap used EM5 ii. And then there is also the super stylish Pen F, but not sure what video capabilities it had…

The artist formerly known as Olympus enters the chat.

I had a guest do that at a wedding a couple of years back. Could not see a thing and totally trashed the shoot! Lasers, smoke and balloons 🤪

Yup; body, grip and lens, all used from MPB!

Ha, considered that very thing recently, ie, having that camcorder in a purely static role, but then came to the conclusion, I may as well stick with my S1H with battery grip (3+ hours so far more than my needs) and with the 70-200mm f4 on it. Massive overkill for I need it to do, which is essentially ceremonies & speeches, but based on trade in and then purchase of a used camcorder, makes no sense, so sticking with the static S1H paired with roaming S5ii approach for my video needs. For 2024 anyway. We'll see at the end of the season as there are various other options I might consider going forward...

I have had a play but not really come up with anything I like. Tried various LUTS I have used for video but somehow it has not quite translated over to stills. I found that for certain subjects under certain lighting scenarios, sometimes the things worked and sometimes the result was awful. In the end, I binned it and kept on with my old faithful of batch editing on LR import, all the raw files from any shoot and then just individually tweaked images before spitting out the lot as a set of finished Jpegs. I get the appeal of a look straight out of camera, but IMO, Fuji still do this best. Nikon also have an option for it, but again, it's a bit of a faff and not set up like Fuji. Where Lumix have an edge though is in the available crop modes, - there are more than anyone else such as 65:24. The latter can look stunning if you shoot for it ands by shooting Jpeg + raw, have the benefit of seeing and capturing in the panoramic crop, but being able to change to anything in post within the 3:2 raw file. I wish Nikon had this aspect ratio available in camera.

I understand. It's a shame bridge cameras didn't really take off... The Sony RX10ii I had was great with its f2.8 24-200mm zoom and the current (?) iv goes up to 600mm and has s-log. But they don't seem to have captured the mass market appeal for whatever reason. And speaking of the digital Bolex, that never worked out but there is a big market for 'retro', - just look at stuff such as the Fuji X100 and Nikon Zf, - folks love 'em. I'm all for modern hi tech spec in olde schoole body styles and it's a shame there isn't much in the 'camcorder' market.

Modular. That’s my answer! Start with a cube and build everything off that. Want a battery grip, add that option. Want a side (either or both) or top handle, add it. External SSD, top, side or below, you choose. External monitor, top or rear. Some kind of rifle stock? Add it. Then if the camcorder thing is your jam, a power zoom. The only thing about the available box style cameras is the lack of IBIS. Are there any? I really wanted to build a hybrid set up off the Lumix BS1H but quickly discovered that for hybrid use, too many compromises. I could probably live without the IBIS as OIS lenses are available, but the number available already limits things massively. Add the monitor OK, but then no mech shutter which with Z8/Z9 sophistication is OK, but not with 4-5 year old Lumix. Ditto Sigma FP. Not quite a box, but so close and yet so far from my needs which to this day, are still best served by the MILC. I really would like to see more innovation in this regard rather than ‘spec’ and the MP arms race.

Maybe it’s my photographer roots, but I am the other way and don’t like the camcorder. Never have and I have had several. The best of these was the Sony FD-AX700 which are still holding their price well on the used market. I built a system around that same 1” sensor with the camcorder static for all my long duration stuff, the RX10ii ‘bridge’ camera as my main unit, plus the RX100v as my literally in my pocket 3rd unit. The output was OK, but ultimately was not overly keen on it and found that for my kind of work, not robust enough, especially if shooting in low light. And as for the handling, the camcorder I always found the most awkward in hand. But each to their own and all that!

I thought it was longer but maybe not and the Z6ii itself is about 3.5 years. I don’t mind too much but I wish companies would give a little more advance warning for business users. Not specifically of course as that would be unrealistic, but a projected timeline at least. So many launches are initially based on rumor and then suddenly bam, here’s our new camera! And it’s not all about upgrading to the latest & greatest every time just because, but more a case of strategic planning. I have had several seasons where something was no longer doing what I wanted it to do as in technology had marched on and for the following season wanted the ability to do that next ‘thing’…only for my brand to be the one that did not jump aboard that ship forcing me to continue for another season compromises, or switch brand. Nikon traditionally have been one of the slower brands, but as with all things, pros and cons! Fortunately, there are several options for me now re. ‘Peak Camera’ and these days it’s more a case of glass and finances…

The OG X100 had that for me and was the first camera for me that had that factor, despite already having been pro for a decade, but everything previously was just a tool for the job. Almost the same experience with the X Pro1 and 2…almost. I think the single last element that was missing there for me was changing lenses and at the time I wished for 2x X100’s, one with a 28mm equivalent lens and the other with a 70mm equivalent. XH1 similar to the Pro1/2 feeling, - really enjoyed and wanted to use it even when I didn’t need to. S1H, kinda, but too big as an every day tool so more a case of extreme admiration. But in 20+ years, nothing has come close to the OG X100 other than the Nikon Zf which I use as a fixed prime unit. My only criticism of the Zf…well two criticism actually is A. I wish they had gone for a tilt screen over a flip out and B. that is was slightly smaller. How does it compare with the X100V and VI? Well obviously not had the VI in my own grubby mitts but have had the V and for me personally, the V vs the Zf is a tie with one a little more ‘personal’ (the V) and the other a little more ‘pro’ (the Zf). Zf vs VI, I’d give the nod to the VI now that it has IBIS and that 40mp sensor. Coupled with the two convertors and the increased ability to crop, it’s close to being a system for me (I would have to chuck in an XH2S with a zoom for some stuff) but work aside, I think Fuji have just taken the original X100 ball and run with it with each iteration but for me, the pick of the bunch are the original (for it’s time) and the new boy.

This is veering somewhat off topic so all I will say is I operate within a niche within a niche. I have worked very hard for over a decade to be in this position. I'm not being bigheaded about it, but I'm not going to give or piss it away for either nothing or a fast buck. And I have no obligation to share that knowledge, paid or otherwise. As above, way off topic so I'll shut up about it 😘 But no John, it's terrible!

OK, too late for me for 2024. I was going to hold on until the end of March (and suspect it will be announced some time next month) but in the end… A. I have some engagement type portrait shoots coming up in March and my Zf is not a long lens camera. OK I could manage a couple of shoots with my 70-180 on it but these shoots are a warmup exercise for the coming season so would kind of defeat the object of the exercise. B. Do I actually need any of that spec? In answer to B. maybe 🤔 probably yes…if I go over to Nikon 100% for both my video and stills needs, but as that cannot now happen in 2024 due to time constraints, it does not matter. So I bought a mint used Z6ii with battery grip for 1600 euros. Does exactly what I need it to do which is primarily be a lens platform for principally the 70-180 and the 20-40 option lenses, stills only, but ability to pull video duty in an emergency. Compared with the S5ii, arguably it’s most direct rival, without grip, it feels a fraction smaller but with better grip, has my preferred tilt screen, has much better shutter feel and sound, identical stills capabilities but the S5ii edges it in the video department. I’m still interested in the Z6iii as a possible contender next year to replace my entire existing L Mount and go back to a 3 body hybrid set up rather than my 2024 2x video + 2x stills set up, but not actively seeking to do so. And interested to see how it fits into the marketplace as a whole. Still not 100% on the e:shutter only Z8 and Z9’s…

I have not watched the video but am a fully paid up member of the club ‘Of Course Gear Matters You Moron’ or we’d all be out using the potato camera. New memberships accepted on passing a very low bar series of tests.

I’m admiring the juxtaposition of the pine cone to the left, complementing the wooden handle and the silver tap behind, the metallic lines of the camera. I see stupid shit like this 😉 But the cage/cinema camera…?? Of course it’s not going to compete with an Alexa or any half-decent ‘cinema camera’, but could you should clips even up to a couple of minutes with it? Sure and if using either the tele or wide angle convertors, open up some other focal length options, basically 28-50mm. And it will handle much better for video (or stills) with that grip. It might not be my first choice for video, but now it has IBIS, I could make that work as part of a kit.