BTM_Pix

From the brief hands on experience that I had with @Andrew Reid's Z9 and Megadap E mount adapter, I was impressed enough to consider it a bit of a turning point in finally purchasing the Z9 (or Z8 or Z9 or Z8). This review is with a broader range of lenses and setups. There are a couple of EF adapters out there and the one I'm looking at is the Meike with the drop in VND system. This is their own test video but it looks usable enough. For M mount (and everything else like M42, C/Y, Manual focus F mount etc that you can adapt to M) I have the original version of the TechArt Pro for E mount and it works well for what it is but has some restrictions. Their version for the Z mount looks to made a lot of steps forward and for the miracle it is performing in terms of bringing AF to manual focus lenses I'd be fine with the performance judging by videos such as this. With regard to the FTZ, I've only seen positive things really other than some slight slow down with TCs but thats par for the course a lot of the time with my experience on some lenses on TCs on the native F mount. I'm not sure there is any performance difference between the FTZ and FTZii but the latter is the one for the Z9 as it doesn't have the protruding foot.

OK, so its not something that will find a natural home here as a talking point and it is bound to be at what will euphemistically be termed "a premium price" but it might actually have some relevance as an indicator of another camera release in the not too distant future. We are all aware of the relationship between Leica and Panasonic goes beyond (and behind) the L mount and the internals in terms of the sensor and processor spec of the Q2 and the S1R are "quite similar". It wouldn't be beyond the bounds of credibility then to take a steer from the specs of the Q3 in terms of what a mark 2 version of the S1R might be when it arrives and considering the Q2 and S1R were released within a few weeks of each other then this might be sooner rather than later. The Q3 is officially announced on the 23rd of May but, as expected these days, the full spec has now been leaked and the general headline for stills shooters at least is the bump in resolution from 47 MP to 62 MP, the tilt screen and the persistence with Hybrid AF. It is the video spec that surprised me though : C8K (17:9): 8192 x 4320 8K (16:9): 7680 x 4320 C4K (17:9): 4096 x 2160 4K (16:9): 3840 x 2160 Full HD (16:9): 1920 x 1080 No further information regarding the codecs that will be available (and knowing Leica it might well turn out to be limited to 256 colours, 15fps and be in FLV format 🙂 ) but that spec would be interesting in a new S1R. There is no news on price but I'd be surprised if it is less than €5.5-6K. There has always been something about the Q series that has had me about to irrationally buy one several times so I'm certainly mad enough to buy one of these but, unfortunately, poor enough these days not to be able to afford to.

Yeah, I thought that camera may have appeared by now to throw a bit more doubt into things but I'm now having intrusive thoughts about the Sony a1. This will be me outside the shop.

Yeah, that really is a weird one how they've managed to do that. I'm now weighing up my actual uses in terms of when I would need that extra power though and whether the external PD option wouldn't be more appropriate to me anyway. My thinking is that the times when I would need that extra power would also align with the the uses that would potentially cause heat issues as well so fully externally powering and not having a battery in it might offer some mitigation to that issue too. For my usage, the times when I would be doing 8K RAW etc on any serious level wouldn't realistically be me casually wandering about wafting the camera about but be in a more controlled situation so external power doesn't bother me and would actually be more beneficial. Another issue is media costs. I'm presuming the RAW and ProRes formats are a no-go when using the SD card option of the Z8 but I'm wondering what the maximum capability is format wise when using them? Absent of dual recording capability to the two CF cards in the Z9 anyway, the CF/SD combo of the Z8 could actually be of more benefit to me in a lot situations. So, there we go, its not even the end of the afternoon and I've gone from Z8/Grip/2 batteries to Z9 and now back to Z8 only. Tune in tomorrow to hear another U turn.

As a lot of it seems to be related to the heat in the card then it could well mitigate it but it would need confirming. On a more general note though, that kit does offer a good option when shooting a lot of content as the cost of say a 1TB drive to go with it is at least half the price of the equivalent CF card. I've just done the sums and a brand new Z9 will cost me around £400 more than a Z8 with the grip and two additional batteries. For a used Z9 it will probably be almost even. I like the modularity aspect of going the Z8 route, particularly as I can defer the grip until later to see to what extent these issues affect me in actual use, but I'm still leaning towards the Z9 at the moment. Its just under three weeks now until I'm in a shop and having to make the actual decision though so thats enough time to change my mind at least another five or six times !

Was the title of the thread a clue to the name of the artist? If so, did the audio section of the contract say “And you may find yourself working with a shotgun mic” ?

In the same vein as the XC10, have a look at the Panasonic FZ2000/2500. Its a stills camera style form factor but it can be considered a full on 4K/HD camcorder, complete with integral 4 step ND filter, V-LOG, 5 axis stabilisation, servo zoom (with LANC input to support external control), audio monitoring etc etc. The 24-480mm zoom lens makes it ideal in the tourist camcorder role to get that broad range of coverage and shot sizes and here are some frame exports from footage that I shot with mine in that role, shot in v-Log using the 200mbps all-i HD codec. \ Panasonic made a camcorder style version of it (with additional high frame rate capability) but it obviously was significantly more expensive (at least double if I recall correctly) as these things tend to always be. You can pick up a used FZ2000/2500 for around €700 or under which makes it a very decent option for a camcorder role. As long as you ignore the fact that it doesn't actually look one 🙂

The 6K timecode can actually be read over bluetooth so with the F2BT versions it would be possible if the Atomos/Timecode systems used the same protocol but unfortunately they don't. Even if the UltraSync Blue had to sit in the middle as a translator (as it does with the Nikon Z8/Z9) then that would be something but that would require Atomos and BM collaborating which is extremely unlikely considering the rivalry in terms of monitor/recorder products between them, let alone the long standing antipathy between them. For anyone using a Ninja V to monitor P4/6K etc, you can roll your own solution by using the Atomos Connect add on which will act as a BT timecode hub for the Zoom, Tascam etc products that support the protocol. I have one of these on order and have a few Zoom BT timecode products such as the F2BT and H3-VR (and an F3 shortly) so I'll report back how it turns out if it ever shows up.

Whilst its true that if you had the BT versions then you would be able to achieve it, even then its still not that straightforward/inexpensive as you would need the Ultrasync One for the camera and also the UltraSync Blue to connect to that to provide the BT timecode to the F2s. With the non-BT versions you will have to rely on basic audio sync in post but that has got a lot slicker over the past couple of years so, whilst far from being as ideal as having TC sync, it will still do the job albeit with an additional burden on file handling and making sure the mics are rolling etc. The issue with doing it through basic audio sync though is you still have to get good scratch audio into the camera to make the post syncing easier. This is where using a Rode Wireless Go system (or similar) in tandem with the F2s will be a big advantage if you have access to them. The output of each F2 can be attached to the input of a Wireless Go as shown here in the Newsshooter review (https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/01/14/zoom-f2-review/). The dual channel receiver can then be attached to the input of the 6K to provide good scratch audio of both F2s in the camera files whilst still taking advantage of the 32bit float audio of the recorder's own internal recordings. Of course, this setup will also be a boon in terms of remote monitoring of the audio of the F2s. Obviously you don't need to go the extra step with the transmitters/receivers and can just use any decent mic that you have around plugged into the camera but the audio monitoring aspect of such a setup for the F2s will potentially payoff in picking up issues.

I seem to be spending a lot of time thinking and posting about the Z series cameras considering that I don't actually own one. Well, not yet at least. What is solidifying what now seems like an inevitable purchase of the Z8/Z9 (more likely the latter) is the mount but not necessarily the native lenses themselves. Not that there is anything wrong with the native lenses from what I have seen more that I have a some may say addiction level collection of lenses and I don't fancy the expense of adding to it with a collection of native Z mount lenses. Not least because, of course, I won't get any utility from them with any of my other some may say addiction level collection of cameras. The supreme adaptability of the Z mount means that it is unsurpassed in terms of allowing me to use the, erm, "carefully curated " collection of lenses of various mounts that I have in no way impulsively purchased over the years, particularly when it comes to providing AF translation too. There are four adapters that I will be buying when I eventually cave in and buy the Z9. Nikon FTZii - Absolute no brainer for most users of course but particularly for me as I do have a legitimately large collection of actually carefully curated high end F mount lenses from when I was a working pro. Meike EF>Z With Drop In Filter Adapter - EF lenses feature second largest in my shame and this lets me use them with full ND control built in. Meike/Megadap E>Z - This one has really pushed my decision to commit to Z mount as I have a few E mount lenses already but the bigger interest is in using it as a pathway to get cost effective mirrorless lenses in the form of the Sigma E mount contemporary range. TechArt Pro TZM02 - The secret weapon for the rest of the groaning draws of glass and metal as it provides AF for manual lenses on Z mount. Predominantly for M mounts (of which I have "a few") but with cheap adapters can also perform the same miracle for my Contax/Zeiss etc and, of course, the old Nikon F mount collection. The only gap is for PL mount lenses but only because I don't want to buy a basic PL>Z adapter when I suspect that Meike will produce a Z mount version of their PL adapter with drop in filter that they already produce for RF, E and L mount. These adapters definitely cement the Z9 as my forever* camera as it fulfils the notion of bridging the requirements of what I need now and the future with a modicum of mitigation for the profligacy of the past. Having said all that, one Z mount lens that I wasn't aware of that looks quite interesting is the 24-200mm. Not fast but very versatile and decent performance. forever* - AKA this week at least.

It’s all been an elaborate ruse to avoid paying redundancy to the two Canadian fellas ?

For some reason (a combination of presumption and wishful thinking) I thought it was both USB and bluetooth. Pity.

According to the manual, 4K 120p RAW is FX but I think it is line skipped so RAWish I suppose. However, there is a specific 4K/120 2.3 crop mode.

The MC-N10 remote grip allows operation of the zoom (and a host of other functions) to be controlled off camera too. Its not cheap but it adds a lot for video shooters, particularly for gimbal use.

Meike have now entered the E to Z mount adapter game. At under €150 it is cheaper than the Megadap one. Full details here https://meikeglobal.com/collections/new-release/products/meike-mount-adapter-etz-for-sony-e-mount-lenses-to-nikon-cameras

I think a possible contender might have dropped into your lap yesterday with the release of the Z8. As well as the headline 8K it also does the 4K120 that you need and all internal RAW to boot. Native Z mount macro lenses are a bit thin on the ground but the Z mount itself is the shallowest depth full frame mount so can have any macro lens that you currently have adapted to it. As you are already invested in E-mount then the Megadap adapter will let you use those lenses with full AF control. Price wise its well under your budget too.

Anyway, my idea of getting a Z8 and a grip to make a small Z9 when I wanted it but build it up when I needed more power has probably fallen by the wayside as, with the grip attached, the Z8 is actually much bigger. Adding the cost of the grip, the extra batteries and a couple of reports of there being a heat build up in the Z8 on long takes then I think a used Z9 will be the way to go for me if I proceed.

The Z9/Z8 are different cameras for a different purpose to the Z6II. If you need a camera for that purpose (predominantly professional sports/photojournalism and/or 8K video or 4K handoff of ProRes) then the advances in development are obvious and are directed to support the performance of those roles. As such, the developments are about functionality rather than being frivolous trinkets. The stacked CMOS sensor providing a zero blackout EVF when shooting bursts because readout speeds are fast enough to negate a mechanical shutter being a prime example. If you don't need any of the functionality that these advancements support for what you are doing then it doesn't mean the development has gone in the wrong direction, it just means its not a direction you need because you have no specific need for the target use of these specific cameras. For everyone that does, though, the development effort has absolutely gone in the right place.

Price is $3999 / €4599 / £3999

Full spec here : https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/mirrorless-cameras/z-8.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

Live launch presentation :

To be fair, it does have some quirks even within the formats. For me it would be OK as I would likely use ProRes for 4K and 8K RAW and don’t mind Resolve but it is certainly worth anyone contemplating the Z9 studying this chart As an ex-D3 user it will have a lot of familiarity but yeah not ideal to be changing mid season. The possibility of what seemed at the time like the imminent announcement of the S1Hmk2 is what had me cooling on the Z9. And it might yet do that still if it gets announced in the next few weeks. Not for you at the moment for the reasons you’ve laid out but if anyone does want one used in the EU then I think @Andrew Reid knows of one that is available…

Same 2mm difference in flange distance but unfortunately it’s in the wrong direction so E to L isn’t possible. L to Z (or E) is possible though if someone had the will to do it. Ironic if the Z8 causes everyone to buy the Z9 after all!! 2mm !! It felt like my D5 in the hand as it’s roughly the same weight. That sort of weight doesn’t bother me as it’s balanced and has the right heft. Felt so familiar that I could have walked away with it, put the big glass on it and shot a game without knowing it was any different than my D4 or D5. Unfortunately, the pesky owner knows where I live so I had to hand it back.

One thing that might tip me into buying a used Z9 (aside from Z8 possibly not being available from stock when I go on my trip) is whether they have cut BLE timecode from the Z8 as I have a bit of commitment to that through Zoom audio recorders and now the Atomos Connect add on for the Ninja V. Hopefully it will also support the remote grip as well Fuck it, I’m getting a used Z9 aren’t I?

I’ve been waiting it out for a Z9 to buy as my forever camera ever since it was launched. Two things were holding me back, namely there being an actual supply of them and then me being able to go to Japan to buy a used one. I’ve been in no rush and as I’m going to Tokyo at the beginning of June and there are plenty of used ones available at MapCamera now, the time has actually come to get one. Which has coincided on me going cool on the idea. Bear in mind that I haven’t been inside a real camera shop since COVID so I’ve never actually seen a Z9 in real life but yesterday I met someone in Berlin who has one and let me have a go with it. And well… If the Z8 does indeed turn out to be a form factor reduced Z9 with a 25-30% price reduction too then I’m probably in. The Z9 form factor doesn’t bother me in the slightest coming from my heritage of D3/D4/D5 use but maybe it would be nicer to have the option of a Z8 with a battery grip to pick and choose sizes depending on what I’m doing with it. Ironically, it was the lenses that were leading me to and then away from the Z9. I have a large collection of high end F mount lenses from my pro days gathering dust so the Z9 with the FTZ was the logical way to bring them into the modern era. But I then didn’t fancy buying into the native Z lenses for when I want to have something smaller and lighter as I found them a bit expensive and not much 3rd party stuff to write home about made it worse. So in the end I decided it was time to cut the losses with the F mount and go in with L or even E mount cameras. However… The man who let me use his Z9 (you might know him, not an Uber League Swingball player or anything but knows about cameras) had something interesting on it. You have to look closely but it’s that waffa theeen Megadap E mount to Z AF adapter and it changes a lot for me. The adapter more or less gives native lens performance of E mount lenses on the Z cameras. I have a couple of E mount lenses so that is good but more importantly it opens up affordable and interesting 3rd party lenses like the Sigma’s contemporary series or primes and zooms and Tamron’s 35-150 f2/f2.8 which are now effectively available in Z mount using this adapter. This means that the Z8 can not only be viewed as baby Z9 but also as a baby Alpha 1, particularly for anyone with a decent collection of E mount lenses already.