John Matthews

Ok. I've decided to wait a little longer for the G9 ii. I want to see how things shake out. Also, this camera is so popular that I'm fairly sure demand will be high and I won't even get it till mid November at the earliest... when I'll be heavily into work. I'll just go a little longer with the E-M1 ii and GX800. Other than the slow motion, they fit the bill for me right now. Make no mistake, I really want this camera though. It'll be available soon enough.

I think this is more about a threshold of "pocketability". Sure, there's not much difference, but it's there. I'm thinking more along the lines of a Ricoh but with video.

The E-m1 ii also has a higher bitrate. The E-M5 ii was catastrophic for moiré. I'd take any of the Panasonic's over the Sony's and Olympus's. Interestingly, the GH2 had a better response to moiré patterns than the GX85/G95/GX850/G100 due to its OLPF, but it still had it (just not at the same frequencies). Here's a screen shot crop of the type of moiré on my GX800, shot in 50fps. I was making a jack 0'lantern with my daughter. On my jeans, you see the pattern, but all the magenta was removed.

I've never seen it on the GH5 and GH6, but it'll happen for sure. I even posted it happening on the G9ii which probably uses the same methods in 5.7K. My understanding of the GX85/G95/GX850 is that don't pixel bin 1080p; rather they average pixels together to make a 1080p image- the results are usually better than pixel binning, but they also have it. With those cameras (especially in 50fps/60fps), the camera is smart enough to recognize it and eliminate the magenta colors that are associated with moiré, making it far less noticeable but still present. Also, on the DpReview charts, the only camera that I've seen that doesn't do it (on their charts/frequencies) is the OG Sony A7s.

I'm fairly certain all these cameras will have moiré patterns at some point whether it be 1080p, 4k, or 6k. The only difference is how visible it becomes and if you can recognize it on playback. The worst of patterns can also be controlled by understanding the frequencies with each lens and the fabrics and buildings causing them. This is a huge topic and merits considerable discussion. I still believe AI should/must "correct" it automatically. Many would pay for that.

Doesn't anyone think there's a market for FF point and shoots? FF sensors are now cheaper than their M43 counterparts. It would make sense to make a 35-50mm f2 prime with a decent small and light body. I could totally see OMDS making this and it would sell if they get the marketing right... which they won't. Panasonic also could do it. The RX1 would have been a hit if it were cheaper and a little smaller.

I have a feeling I might reach as much as 28 minutes of 4k 120fps before the buffer even fills up. I reckon the G9ii has about 8gb of internal buffer (which is amazing).

I wouldn't complain either. With all the smaller cameras, it's always a give and take. The masses are no longer going to be buying them; so, make us a camera with much better ergos but small. It must be possible: For me, I don't want the flash, but keep the hot shoe. Also, I don't want the EVF, I'd prefer a better flip-up screen and making it smaller. Also, I don't like the camera strap attachments like that. I'd prefer the ones on the G9 ii/S5. In terms of IO, just give us a mic jack. For key specs, I want full-sensor readout and PDAF. Don't need 60fps or even 120fps, but I wouldn't whine if were in there. The other specs are just fine for me, especially the shutter (1/250 sync). Maybe that camera wouldn't sell very well, but I'd get it. OMDS came close with the E-P7, which was great, but mine broke and they're still too expensive used. They also cheaped out with no PDAF, and the sub-par plastics (it creaks when you hold it, but it's only 337g). The E-P7 had decent IBIS and controls (two usable dials on top). It has full-sensor readout too. It had 120fps at 1080p. No mic jack though. For many, the lack of EVF is a no-go, but I just don't like the hesitation I have over which one to use. For me, less is more in this case. Yes, we need more contrast in the Panasonic line-up. Big-bodied FF and M43 is not enough. We need core Panasonic features in a tiny body too. At this point, I think they should just forget about the existence of camera phones- they won the bad ergonomics point and shoot market. Let's just make a camera that enthusiasts will buy. IMO, the problem with phones is ergos and there's no way around it or it will no longer be a phone. Anything they do to "make it better" for photographers will make it clunky and not sell to the masses. Inherently, phones and cameras are different devices, for the same reason cinema cameras and camcorders will always have an edge on hybrid cameras for video. Hybrid cameras will always have and edge on cinema cameras and camcorders for photos.

FYI, the G9ii's manual is 832 pages long. Is that a record of some sort?

Do you think they'll have a microphone jack? Probably not and Youtubers will hate it... 20 videos on release saying it's great, but they won't buy it because of no mic jack. I'd rather see a GX800 with a mic jack, PDAF, and the G100's IBIS (all electronic which wasn't that bad). I don't like viewfinders on small cameras as they "just get in the way." Instead, give me a smaller body and bigger battery with a mic jack and PDAF. I'll be happy with that. It also provides more contrast in their lineup. S1H ii - video oriented, ultimate IQ with all the bells and whistles, high price S5 ii/iix- photo oriented, ulitimate IQ but not all the bells and whistles, bargain value GH7- video oriented, ultimate IQ with a crop with all the bells and whistles, high crop sensor price G9 ii- photo oriented, ulitimate IQ with a crop but not all the bells and whistles, decent crop sensor value G100, GX9 ii, GX850 ii- small video and photo camera with value features and excellent value. If they make anything that anywhere close to the G9 ii in terms of size, they'll turn off people who want a small camera. It needs to me sub 350g which is really hard. People will expect full-sensor readout, 60fps with PDAF. The real question is how cool can they make the G9 ii sensor as thermals will be key and probably the determining factor of the camera size. I'm ok with a fan in such a small body, but increase the size of the battery please- 250 shot CIPA minimum.

At 658g, I guess the G9 ii isn't so bad. It gives 842g of lens and accessories. Here are some of the fastest setups and weights: G9 ii + Panasonic 9mm f/1.7 = 788g G9 ii + Olympus 17mm f/1.2 = 1048g G9 ii + Olympus 25mm f/1.2 = 1068g G9 ii + Olympus 45mm f/1.2 = 1068g G9 ii + Olympus 75mm f/1.8 = 963g G9 ii + Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 = 1418g G9 ii + Olympus 75-300mm f/4.8-6.7 = 1081g There are some nicer lenses at the telephoto end, but many put us over the mark as you'd expect.

This conversation begs the question: what is the acceptable weight for a handheld setup? IMO, 1.5kg is the upper limit. What do you think? BTW, I just turned 50.

This is quite serious stuff. I don't know if you've seen any on P. Bloom's videos from last year, but the guy had massive lower back pain. IMO, humans are not meant for carrying significant weight 8 hours a day for a career. I'm not actually sure can work anymore.

Those are good recommendations. For pro lenses, I currently have 12-40 pro, 17mm pro, 40-150mm Pro f/2.8. For non-pro, I have the 9mm, 14mm, 14-42 EZ (with a killer automatic lens cap), 17mm, 25mm, 45mm, 75mm, 75-300mm. I also just picked up (in a kit) the 12-32, and 35-100 f4-5.6, but I'm not sure I'll keep them. I want the 25mm pro 1.2 when I find it at a decent price... and I'm determined I will. It would be great with the already amazing 17mm Pro. I have thoughts on all these lenses that I'll probably share soon. (time permitted)

Very helpful. Thanks for that. The superzoom option is interesting as I've never done it. The GX85 is such a great camera. In fact, it's the only other camera that I've preordered. I had it for 2 years, but sold due to gas. I often wish I had just kept it all this time, but wanted to try other things (watched too much YouTube probably). I've been thinking of the "system" a little differently though. I've been thinking "big and capable" vs. "small and less features"; not "low-light" vs. "abundant light". It's essentially the same though. I guess it's more about a "get by with" system and "no compromise-ish" system. I've also considered those big zooms, but the size and price are just killer. Yeah, I've also shot with the Olympus C4k, but it almost never hit those datarates, only at f8, lots of detail and handheld. I'll probably go for the v60 cards as they seem to be the best compromise. If I need more, I'll go for my SSD. Again, the superzoom is compelling (and only 265g). I already have most of the other lenses you mention with the exception of the 35-100; instead, I have the 40-150 Pro f/2.8. I'm not sure it's a better lens. I sold the Pany 20mm, but loved it for DFD. Thanks. My mistake. I don't know why I couldn't figure that out. (I should have kept my mouth shut.)

Just thinking through a big camera and small camera setup in terms of lenses, I think it makes sense to alternate between "pro" lenses and "consumer" lenses throughout the popular focal lengths. For example in MFT, fisheye, 10, 12, 17, 25, 42.5, 75, 150, 300 (or more) This would allow to mix and match better and have the right tool for the job. In the past, I thought I'd just copy the focal range for the pro and consumer camera, having the same focal range in both, understand better the focal length and essentially working consistently. For example, Pro: 12-35, 35-100, 200 (don't have any of these lenses) Consumer: 12-32, 35-100 Conversely, one could just choose the 10-25 and 25-50 (don't have those either) to cover most of the focal range, then choose small primes on the consumer side. Maybe some could double as a lens in both situations (example, use the 9mm for both pro and consumer if it passes mustard). Fact: the G9 ii is big for MFT; maybe the features will mitigate this, but the need for a smaller camera (for me) is necessary. The question is: which focal lengths should be pro and which should be consumer and not let the size of the g9 ii to get "out of hand". I just curious to know what you would do if you need two systems (big and small), what would you choose/have you chosen?

That was ONE of the annoying parts about the GH6. The C4k 120fps was often a completely different aspect ratio from the rest... a lack of UHD meant you were either cropping the 120fps footage or making the entire project in C4k. It was a strange limitation. The GH6 seemed to do everything, but not that. Maybe it'll be fixed in firmware.

Am I correct in saying the G9 ii does 120fps 4k, but the GH6 only does C4k 120fps?

I liked it. I felt like there was a rather large learning curve having come from very consumer Panasonic cameras to something that has so much in it. The AF seemed serviceable to me, but I'm sure the G9 ii will make it look bad. It seemed a little overkill for me and my family stuff. I better understand the menus now; so, the G9 ii will be fine, but still, there's more than what I need out of a camera. If everything goes well, I'll sell my E-M1 ii and use the G9 ii for my "big" camera with big lenses and a GX800 for my "fun, small" camera. It's funny because I've bought and sold the GX800 3 times now and it's one of the most fun cameras I've ever had. I just can't live with so many audio and video quirks. I expect the G9 ii to perform better for all of my needs over the GH6 and the E-M1 ii.

Well, I've decided to get the G9 ii. Should arrive around November 2. If people have questions, I'll do my best to answer. Also, now that I've given up my CF Express Type B that I used for my GH6, I have many v30 cards, but no v60 or v90. I don't really need the highest data rates, but I want 4k 120fps. What card to I need for that? On my CF Express card, I could just do everything without thinking about it, but I'd rather not have to shell out serious money for a v90 card unless absolutely necessary. When I look at the 4k 120fps files, their only 100 Mbps in HVEC. Can a v30 card handle 5.8 open gate?

On the G100, I tried a number of things to eliminate moiré, including a mist filter. Maybe it wasn't the right strength, but nothing worked other than moving back a foot or so. Of course the framing was wrong after that. I even tried a different lens altogether and kept the same frame- it was the same result, moiré on a cotton shirt. Panasonic does a decent job at detecting moiré and removing the color from it but the pattern remains. With DFD, it was always puling and that also mitigated the problem- moiré would go off and on. I watched a video just this morning filmed on a X-T5 and there was moiré of the worst kind with plenty of colors roaming around. It was definitely the shirt though. Clothing is one thing you can control sometimes, but not buildings. On a wedding shoot like yours, it's impossible though.

Good to know!

So, how did you deal with that? That seems like a nightmare!

So what I was saying earlier about a correlation between pixel density and moiré is true. The less space there is between pixels, the less chance of moiré. In this case, 12k capture is better than 4k when it comes to moiré. On the G100, it really sucked for 1080p moiré at precisely the distance one would vlog at. Go back 50 cm and moiré would be gone due to the frequency of the patterns. I imagine the GX80/85 has a similar problem in 1080p.

Yes. If only the Foveon sensor took off, moiré would be out of everything. We should start a new thread on moiré only. I bet if we pool our resources, we might be able to diminish the effect in post or planning. If you look on YouTube, there isn't really that much on the subject; maybe that's why there isn't more energy put into it.