mercer

Yeah, Fuji is on the top of my list, but I am leaning towards an X-H1. I know the IBIS is supposedly questionable but I love the photos and video I’ve seen from it so far.

Well, for me as a beginner stills shooter, I’m looking for a hybrid camera that gives me the best bang for my buck for stills and video. I’m sure to accomplished photographers, this conversation may seem silly or pointless, but I want to spend my money wisely and not jump into a camera I’ll regret a month later because some feature or spec is more limiting than what it may have been with a different camera.

I think what I’m seeing is a similarity in the highlight roll off, not necessarily a DR similarity with the GH5. With that being said, I enjoyed your impromptu family short film. The Ursa Footage is in a different category than the P4K, as it should be, but I definitely think this is some quality first footage for the P4K. That midday sun, in the middle of the woods is a bitch on almost any sensor.

It could be the grade, but there seems to be a color shift at higher ISOs and yes, other than that Raw texture, especially in the tree bark, it does seem to look more like the GH5 in its highlights. But for the first video out in the wild, not too shabby at all.

Well, the truth of it is, I am most interested in the Panny’s for their IBIS, but the smart play would be the Sigma for stills and my 5D3 for video... Or some kind of cheap and small Canon so I can practice processing Raw stills to benefit both ML Raw video and photography. And then see what the FF Canon mirrorless offers as a hybrid sometime down the line. But yeah the Sigma SD Quattro has some serious IQ. Have you looked at the Flickr page... holy cow... the colors and textures and shadows... why oh why won’t Sigma figure out a way to have video on one of their cameras... they should hire A1ex from Magic Lantern to figure out Raw Video with the Foveon sensor.

Yes, there are more M series cameras floating around but the M50 was only released less than 6 months ago... but I get your point. Nice samples BTW, I like the B&W in particular. Do you remember the lens you used? Maybe I can get by with a G85 as a hybrid then... then I’ll have 4K and IBIS. And if I take a liking to stills, I could always add a Sigma SD Quattro into the fold down the line.

Nice work and yes, MLVFS are like magic and turn a somewhat tedious process into a piece of cake. But I will say that I really like the MLV App’s implementation of a LogC curve. It works brilliantly with basic LogC to Rec709 LUTS or corrects/grades simply with some simple curves and saturation. So for anybody who uses a different NLE than Resolve and is looking for a quick ProRes conversion, the MLV App is great. To add, I cannot stress this enough... I love what you guys are getting with the eos-m... it really is the camera that keeps on giving thanks to ML. I know these are shot with the experimental Raw builds and SD card overclocking mixed with crop mode and whatever other voodoo the ML team has figured out, but has there been any advancements with the bitrate hack? With the crop mode, it always seemed like a good compromise between quality and ease of use. Also what other cameras benefit from these new builds? I’d love to see the 70D with this quality and DPAF.

Yeah, the photographer takes the photo, I get that but there still seems to be something unique in every camera that beginners can benefit from if they choose the right camera. For instance, for shits and giggles, I had a glance at the M50 Flickr Group page and the first few pages had way better photos than the first few pages of the GH5 page... like not even close. Obviously I know nothing about the photographers who took any of the photos, nor know anything of their skill or artistic level BUT the M50 is one of the most entry level cameras you can buy, so one must assume, they were taken by a more beginner photographer and yes I know, I know... a lot of assumptions but when you go page by page by page and see the same thing, a pattern starts to arise. BUT, with that being said, I am not giving up hope on the GH5, I think I just need to do more research and maybe rent one in a few months... because as long as I like the Raw files, there is no arguing about the video specs and how good it could do as a hybrid. But then again, it really isn’t much smaller than my 5D, so it could be out of the running based on that alone. Anyway, thanks for all the help, too many options, too many specs and no camera that has everything.

Well it’s not entirely about standing out more, it’s also about weight and overall handling size. If I was a pro stills shooter, sure I’d want a 5D or a D850 but for a casual stills/video hybrid, I’d rather have a smaller footprint that I can stuff in my glove box when I run into a store, or carry in a backpack with my iPad, a snack and other needs for a daily outing. With that being said, if I wasn’t going to buy another 35mm f/2, I’d seriously consider that 40mm.

Yeah... that is pretty spectacular looking. I know mjpeg is highly unpopular in these here parts, but I often wonder how much it contributes to the 1DC’s “look,” because 6 years later and I have yet to see another 4K capable camera with that level of output.

@Dan Sherman yes, that was what I was trying to say with that comment. However, the G9 does have one or two photography features that could benefit a stills shooter but the GH5 has a plethora of video features and since the price difference is only incremental, the GH5 tends to make more sense. Those stills look okay, I like the dog close up and the bird but I tend to like more surreal or abstract photography where there is light and shadow play. With that being said, your point is taken and something to consider going forward. Yeah, I noticed that too, but as you know, sharpness is one of the last things on my list... I prefer mood and texture. Panny’s always feel a little sterile to me and their smaller sensor doesn’t help in a lot of the samples I’ve seen... with all things considered.

I wish it was the FZ2500, as you know I have a not so secret admiration for that camera. It’s kinda big and clunky but it gets better video than it has any business getting. In shutter priority mode and that push button slow motion, it turns the camera into a point and shoot cinema camera. Throw a Ninja Star on there and you have 10bit 4:22 1080p. But I digress, of all of my staring at Flickr over the weekend, I did like the images from the SD Quattro the most. It seems to handle shadows and midtones so wonderfully and in a lot of samples it seems to “favor” darker midtones, which is what I tend to do in post with ML Raw... So this will be a tough one. I do like the idea of a stills only camera, so the Sigma is still in the running and maybe get another FZ2500 as a walkaround hybrid. I assume in a pinch, it will work for casual snapshots.

@BTM_Pix thank you so much for this. I appreciate you taking the time. I looked at these on my phone first, so obviously not the best viewing experience for a comparison. At first view, you did a great job matching the two, but how much of a difference are there in jpegs? I would assume the Fuji wins, but I’m curious what Sigma “color” looks like. Second, I think I agree that Sigma just edges the X-T20 but only with a perceived organic or textured look to the images. Third, I quite liked your uncropped frame... which camera was that from? And finally, the LX100 does seem to hold its own, that leaf shutter helps I suppose? But this mysterious 4th camera has piqued my interest and I am guessing it may be an FZ2500? But it’s probably your phone and this whole thing was a lesson that the camera does not make the photographer... With that being said, I suppose you’re right and the Sigma doesn’t make much sense. It looks like a fun camera though. And I think this is what I am finding the most difficult to surmise... on its own merits... so far it seems like, from looking at a bunch of Flickr Groups, that camera manufacturers really know who their target customer base is. For instance, as you previously noted, the GH5 photos are rather uninspiring and I’ve found one or two photos I like in 10 pages.... whereas the G9 has dozens of photos that look great... now I know the G9 is geared more to the photographer than videographer but I cannot imagine that their output should be so different to warrant the complete disparity between the two. More research I suppose. I’m still in favor of a camera with IBIS, so luckily that keeps my options low. And if I go with a camera without it, I may as well go Canon since I already own EF lenses. I’m probably going to lower my anticipated budget to under $1000 and eliminate some of my higher end options because I really need a couple lenses, audio equipment and lighting for my film and I can’t let my Summer GAS get in the way of that.

Yup, it’s pretty crazy that a $200 camcorder 15 years ago had a parfocal lens.

This is not abnormal for BM. I think other than Ursa Mini Pro, there were delays on all, or most of their camera releases. The BMMCC was the same way and it wasn’t released for almost a year after it was announced. You guys gotta remember that BM is a small company and what they offer is revolutionary in price and specs, it takes time to develop these cameras. And due to the schedules of NAB, I assume they need to announce products when they’ll get the most eyes. If we follow the Micro’s timeline, short films and footage was realeased approximately 6 weeks to 2 months before cameras were stocked in the stores. Also, there is a good possibility that there will be issues with the cameras when first released... FPN, magenta issues, etc... but BM has a brilliant track record of fixing all of the issues with their cameras, so rest easy and know when the P4K is released and any issues are addressed, you’ll own a brilliant cinema camera for pennies on the dollar.

I know that was a trick we used to do with camcorders, zoom in really tight on your subject, get focus and then zoom out and your subject is still in focus.

Wow. Drooling over here.

Really, I’ve never had an issue with Canon menus. But I usually don’t do too much customization either... pretty much set everything to manual and use the Q menu for any changes. I have seen some pretty okay stuff shot with the M50, so hopefully these are signs to come. If the price continues to drop, I may pick one up anyway... even with the horrible RS in 4K, old c-mounts and Canon color sounds like a good time. And as a glovebox cam for photos and 1080p with the 22mm could prove useful. Thanks for sharing your experiences with it.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. I am usually very impetuous with buying cameras but I want to take my time and make the right decision with this one.... I’ve already decided and talked myself out of 2 or 3 choices in as many days. So really any input you have as a stills shooter, is worth its weight in gold to me.

Although, I definitely agree that The Lane looks really good, I’m not sure that it bests the best ML videos. There is a natural texture and depth to ML Raw, especially in regards to skin, that is unmatched in my opinion. With that being said, there are features in the GH5 that make shooting a blast. And with Sage’s work, a lot of my previous issues with the GH5 are cured. So for certain projects, it could prove useful. Please post your results if you pick up Sage’s LUTS. You know he has a free one for CineLikeD if you want to get your feet wet.

My mentions of the 5D3 are of a wholesome admiration for the camera and how it made my work look less like total crap and just plain crap overnight but I do not mention it to sway anyone one way or another... much like your admiration for the GH5. Actually, with Sage’s “profile,” a GH5 could be in my future.

Of course I do, if you are so inclined... for some reason I think you’re dying to? Btw, what program do you use to process Raw stills, and do you have any preferences based on which camera you used?

Is that your work? Looks really nice. I can see a similarity with Like709 but Sage’s Profile is definitely more cinematic but it seems like a good colorist could get there using Like709. @Sage are there any samples floating around from your CineLikeD conversion?

I just checked the prices at B&H and for $699 with the kit zoom, the camera is getting more and more attractive. But I’m definitely going to wait to see if they release something else this Fall. Do you use the official Canon adapter with the M50 or the Vello? I have a few USM lenses that I’d probably want to use with it if I go that route.

Hmm, at the going price of the X-T20/X-E3, maybe I can finagle a Fuji and an E-M1ii or G9... imagine evil grin slowly growing on my face... Or maybe a Sigma Quattro SD and the 30mm Art lens kit (which is an obscenely low price kit, btw) and an Olly or G9... hmm... my head may have just imploded... but maybe I am a 3 camera shooter... one for video only (5D3 w/ ML Raw), one hybrid for video and stills (E-M1ii or G9) and one stills camera (Sigma Quattro SD) ???