mercer

And yeah, that’s the problem with the G85. They still sell for around $700 around here, at that price I can spend a little more (relatively speaking) and get the G9 which has headphone input and 4K 60p. At that point, the heart of the challenge is kinda gone I suppose. As far as the challenge goes, I say it is a Fall/Winter challenge where each person is challenged to do at least one or two if you’re bold short film/documentary/music video at 5 minutes or less. I’d prefer it to be 1080p but 4K is acceptable and I’d prefer it to be a single lens (preferably a prime) zoom or prime is acceptable. Audio should be in camera and any lighting should be portable enough to fit in a camera bag (I’m gonna try and use available light as much as possible. I’m also going to try and do more than one. I still have my EOS-M in the back of my closet, so I will probably use that in conjunction with ML Bitrate Hack to do a locked down shirt with a c-mount lens. And then for my second one, I may get one of the cameras I mentioned above for IBIS and possibly 4K... of course I am seeing that the E-M5ii are going for $500 or less now as well... so maybe I’ll stick to 1080p. Anyway, sorry to the OP, if this is getting off track. Thanks for this. I had a discussion with BTM a while back about the expo disk and he was telling me you can use them to set exposure as well... if I’m remembering the conversation properly. And thanks for the X-Rite tip. I’m using a 2014 MacBook Air and it has been a headache getting accurate color out of it. Using the internal Mac color calibration tool will get me there sometimes but then other times it will be way off. As much as I’d love to get a GH5 and a Sankor 16c anamorphic, or a P4K, my money will be better spent this year updating my computer and my audio equipment, so a cheaper 2nd hybrid/glovebox cam will have to do.

Marty, that sounds awesome, I look forward to seeing your recent work. I still watch your bicycle short, from the G6, on occasion and is a major influence on my desire to shoot short pieces on older, cheaper cams. I’m very much still interested in an 8bit short film challenge but I can’t agree to no IBIS... that is probably one of my prerequisites for one of these cams. As I said, I’m definitely buying an FZ2500 for a film project this winter but I wouldn’t use that for our challenge. Honestly I’m really looking forward to digging out my c-mounts and see them get some use with IBIS. So I guess, it will be down to the E-M5ii, the E-M10iii (my friend has one and I’ve been really impressed with his results and Olympus is selling refurbished units for less than $400) and then finally maybe the G85. The G85 makes a lot of sense because the 4K crop allows me to use my 12.5mm c-mounts with IBIS and gives me a microphone input. Maybe internal audio should be a rule for the challenge as well?

I don’t think it’s a derail. You’re showing some footage from an inexpensive camera that you already own... if that isn’t the heart of this post, I don’t know what is. It could be my phone but it seems YouTube did a hatchet job on that video. I can tell how good it looks from the thumbnail but the video is ton of artifacts and pixelation. I’ll have a look on my computer in a few minutes. I love the handheld IBIS though.

Do you think an expo disk is better than using an X-Rite? I’ve never used either but I am considering an X-Rite as I progress more into my short films.

To add, if you want to try a fun camera, pick up an FZ2500. I’ve had two of them and I regret selling both. I have a very specific project I’m working on this winter and chances are I’ll be buying a third one. There’s just something really special about CineLikeD with a S16 sized sensor.

With an eff around camera, I am leaning toward something with IBIS, so I’d probably look at the G85 or an Olympus instead of the G7, but yes, the G7 is still one of the best deals around!!! @Dan Sherman I think I was agreeing with you even if it didn’t read that way. Theoretically a router should be a better tool than a chisel for a dovetail joint but some of the old timers could take a chisel, sharpen it on some concrete and make a perfect dovetail joint in a pinch. It’s quite astonishing to witness. I agree about tools. Using Final Draft to write a screenplay is way more inspiring than creating a word document. It’s intuitive and lets your brain concentrate on the creative. I look forward to seeing what you get out of the GX85, in a lot of ways it will be more fun than shooting with the P4K. I really enjoy your LS300 videos, so I’m sure the GX85 ones will look great.

I had the G7 for a while and had a lot of fun with it. I really learned that I was horrible at color grading by owning that camera. Here’s a frame grab from one of my more successful jobs with the G7 and an old Cosmicar 25mm c-mount lens...

But have they? It seems that only 18 months after release, a lot of GH5 users are abandoning the camera for other brands. At $2000, it was very expensive for a m4/3 camera, no matter how much they gave you. And I still don’t really know if they have made any profit from the GH5? Instead, I see a FF Panasonic as a, me too, attempt to get into an increasingly competitive market and if the rumors are correct, it won’t be a cheap cover charge. And then this jump to higher MPs which I assume is for their silly desire to bring 8K video to market. A 12mp a7siii killer with IBIS and lowlight video would have been a way better foray into FF in my opinion. As the rumors suggest, no IBIS, no PDAF, no retro fitted FF lenses (well maybe some Leica if they use that mount) and no existing Professional photographer user base and I just don’t understand what a high MP FF camera from Panasonic is supposed to accomplish. Now if it has internal Raw, it will have my attention. At $3000+ it may just be a double take though.

Being a cabinet maker by trade, I can tell you first hand that that statement is not entirely true. A craftsman will make any tool work. Sure better tools are always helpful, but a master at his craft will improvise and make any tool work. I often reference Kendy Ty and what he did with a t2i and the OG Sigma 30mm lens. It was truly astonishing work and holds up today. I actually prefer the look of his t2i films over his a6300 films. Technically, the a6300 image is better but there is something missing. I often muse about getting a second camera and I instantaneously gravitate toward a GH5 or a Fuji or even a C100 or FS5 because they give me something I don’t have with my 5D3, but deep down, I really just want one of the cheapest cameras I can find. Something that will require me to massage the image. In the end, that improvisation will make me a better craftsman... I think. A year or so ago, myself, @PannySVHS and @mat33 discussed a short film challenge involving 8bit 1080p cameras. As most challenges usually die, so did this, but I often think about going back to the idea of challenging myself with an entry level camera. The D3400 has a Flat Profile. The EOS-M has the ML bitrate hack, obviously the GH1/GH2 hacks. The E-M5ii has some of the best IBIS around with a nice Flat Profile and an all-i codec. Or maybe a GX85 hacked by @BTM_Pix for CineLikeD used in conjunction with @Sage ‘s brilliant emotive color could be equally appealing. Anyway, I appreciate the sentiment by the OP and as my end of summer GAS calls out to me, maybe I’ll once again explore one of these options instead of dropping thousands of dollars on a new system I don’t really need.

I wonder how many people will buy an UMP now along with the P4K? If I had that kind of money, I may consider it. Yup and that’s why I think it will be interesting in the BMVAs... C200, FS5, FS7. I’ve been watching some FS5 videos lately and I really like internal 10bit and the external ProRes Raw looks good as well, if a BMVA gets BRaw, the FS5 could be a better option than even a UMP with 14 stops and sLog3. Btw, when were you planning on comparing BRaw with Canon RawLite? I’m really looking forward to seeing that.

I was wondering the same thing. That would open it up to the C200 as well because it outputs a 2K 10bit Raw signal through its SDI.

I thought I read that it has the same sensor as the BMPC4K but I could be wrong. And I don’t know if it’s a fact that BRaw will end up in that camera. Someone on BMCuser said they “thought” or “learned” that BRaw was coming to the entire Mini line before it will be implanted in the P4K. But maybe it’s just the 4.6 line... IDK. The Micro is dropping in price on the used market as well, I’m almost tempted to buy one of those and hope BRaw gets in there. With the unique multi-use function of the Micro, for drones and crash cams, it may be something worth doing for BM... unless they are planning a M4K in the future.

It looks great! And maybe a little sharper? Do you use LUTS, I always really like your grades, muted earth tones, really organic look. Oh yeah, did you test BRaw with SD cards?

Just gorgeous! Such a fan of your work, ever since your ML Raw days. I’d love to know more about this. Which shots were which? I have a couple ideas but I’m not a hundred percent sure.

Hey, this is slightly off topic but I was curious of your input. With a lot of cameras being released with 10bit 4:22 coming to the market, the lines are blurred as to what is considered a professional cinema camera nowadays. I know you were a big Blackmagic fan but then went EVA1 instead of UMP, is there a reason why you decided to go that route?

Well, I think there is a notion that you have to shoot in 4K... look Netflix has a page that says it’s a requirement, I have a movie idea... 1+1= Netflix sale. So I think a lot of people feel their project can definitely get onto Netflix especially if they follow their guidelines. As a screenwriter first, do you know how many people who aren’t even creative at all pitch me movie ideas and tell me they are thinking about writing a screenplay? Point being, a lot of people think this stuff is easy and they just need a script or the right camera and BAM BOOM BANG... Hollywood deal.

@HockeyFan12 yes you are correct it is wrong to assume based on my budget and that’s why I was assuming based on his last 20 some odd posts. I was adding my experience with like minded people (if my assumption is correct) I think you may be assuming based on your experience working in LA on bigger productions but I can count on one hand how many forum members that may have access to that kind of “less than a million dollar per episode budget” so I am guessing he’s somewhere between our two worlds.

Haha, no I’m not waiting for that but I could see how you might think it by my post. My point was I don’t need 4K Raw right now. So even though 1080p Raw would be a crop of the sensor by nature, since I don’t need or want 4K Raw right now, then the inherent crop is a negative of the camera for me. Although I may be interested in 4K Raw with B-Raw... if implemented.

I would assume from the nature of his posts, he may have a project he’s working on that is a micro-budget or less and he wants to swing for the fences. I work with a small group of friends that are also filmmakers and at least one of those friends wants to follow the Netflix guidelines as close as possible even though we work with zero budgets... meaning filmmaking is not our full time jobs and we self fund our projects. I’ve decided to shoot with ML Raw and they are going 4K.

Well I think there is a notion that if you are planning a spec project that you’d like to eventually sell to Netflix, that you may have a leg up if you follow the guidelines that Netflix uses for their original content. With the GH5, and possibly the P4K, being readily available at near consumer prices, it isn’t necessarily a bad idea to use one of those cameras, but in the end, the quality of the spec film will trump the camera and codec it was shot with.

Yup. I’m still keeping the P4K as a possible option for me in the next 6 months or so. But I have no interest in being an early adopter. And I’m unsure if I am going to get one at all. As I’ve said, the 1080p Raw crop is really bugging me. So for me, I need to know how the footage looks when more units are in the wild, what growing pains the early units have, if B-Raw is going to be implemented, and finally ML’s progress with the 5D4. Needless to say, I don’t need a new camera right now and I am a few projects away (6 months to a year) before I would use the camera for a film. So hopefully all of my questions will be answered by then.

I would argue the issue is with the electronic/camera companies pushing tech that align with their television sales. Unless you are an SFX firm, I see absolutely no reason why any camera company would be pushing for 8K. I honestly don’t see why a television manufacturer would either.

Well I already have EF lenses. And when I wrote that, I thought the Ursa Mini 4K had an SD slot because supposedly they are getting the 4K 12:1 Raw to work with SD cards used with the BMPCC... which is huge for the P4K but the Mini 4K does not have an SD slot and instead uses CFast cards which are considerably cheaper than CFast2 cards... so that’s not horrible. But you are right, the prices could rise on the used market. There are also some theories that the processor in the Micro may be able to handle B-Raw... which would be great if implemented. According to members on bmcuser, B-Raw has improved FPN issues on the UMP, so it may help with the UM4K as well if implemented. Along with Gen 4 color they are also claiming a better noise floor and more organic noise overall.

I just read the entire thread on B-Raw on bmcuser. According to some of the posters over there, it should be in the P4K as Grant said they are working on it, but it seems it will be down the road... whatever that means. They also are under the impression that the entire Ursa Mini line will get it before the P4K. If the Mini 4K gets B-Raw, I may have to pull the trigger on a used one. I really like the image out of that camera without B-Raw, with it... it becomes one of the cheapest S35mm Raw cinema cameras on the market at $2000 used.

@Jonesy Jones don’t you have an Ursa? It does look really good, I wouldn’t say it’s my favorite, but it’s up there. The Alexa is still untouched in my opinion.