David Bowgett

It's worth remembering that the only other APS-C cameras that do 4k60 at all are the XT-3 and XT-4, and they have crops as well, albeit smaller ones (1.25x on top of the existing crop, so 1.88x overall).

Is the Z6 II's 4k60 actually APS-C? Everyone's talking as though it is, but this part of the press release makes it sound like it's full-frame (emphasis mine):

"Building on the vast pro-caliber video capabilities of the Z 6, the Z 6II is capable of recording 4K UHD video quality with full pixel readout, demonstrating the advantages of mirrorless technology. The camera is capable of a variety of frame rates, including 4K UHD 60p with full pixel readout, which is planned to be available in February 2021 via a firmware update."

Wait, the S1/S1H/S5 sensor is the same as the Z6's? If that's true, then why are Panasonic's cameras still limited to DFD for auto-focus? Shouldn't they have access to PDAF if it's using the same sensor as the Z6?

It's like Sony hastily came up with something to compete with the Panasonic G100, then realized that they already had a G100 competitor in the shape of the ZV1, and then just said "eh, screw it" and released it anyway.

8 minutes ago, Jay60p said:

Just curious as to the theory that an f/2 in FF would require an f/1.4 in APS-C?

I just checked several lenses on my X-T3, pointing to my computer screen with this post.

Using manual exposure, 1/60th at ISO 1000:

APS-C Fuji zoom 18-55 required f/8 at 24mm.

My Nikon full frame 24-85 on a dumb adapter also required f/8 on it's manual aperture ring at 24mm.

A 16mm C mount 25mm prime lens at f8 measured 1/3rd stop lower, due to some black vignetting.

Why would aperture brightness change one stop between FF & APS-C, assuming no other glass added?

 

The overall amount of light coming through the lens wouldn't change, but you lose a stop in terms of depth-of-field, and generally also a stop in terms of ISO performance (although the latter isn't always consistent) when going from Full Frame to APS-C.

2 hours ago, Yannick Willox said:

And maybe the Ursa mini pro 12k...

Well, I was talking stills cameras specifically. It's a bit of a different picture (excuse the pun) in the pro video market, since there's already so many lenses, both new and vintage designed to project a Super 35 image circle, and APS-C's obviously a better fit for that.

It's not needed, but right now it's the direction the industry seems to be moving in. Only Fujifilm and, weirdly enough, Canon really seem to be pushing the boundary in terms of APS-C sensors right now, and things have been even slower on the m4/3 front.

So, in the age where mirrorless is king, Canon's best option for video (not counting their cinema cameras) is a DSLR aimed primarily at sports shooters. You couldn't make this s**t up if you tried.

The most mind-blowing thing about all of this is that they've apparently managed to create an imaging processor that can handle 8k30 RAW and 4k120 while maintaining reasonable temperatures, at a time when Fujifilm, Panasonic and Sony only have processors capable of 4K60 (and Nikon don't even have anything capable of that), but have crippled it to the point of near-uselessness.

Okay, maybe it's not really that mind-blowing when you consider Canon's history, but still...

23 minutes ago, Stronz said:

The Canon R5 is the No Man's Sky of cameras.

Meanwhile, the EOS R is looking like the Phantom Menace of cameras. Initially greeted with widespread groans and people saying "We waited all those years for THIS?", only for people to quickly soften their opinions on it after being even more disappointed with what came next.

3 hours ago, cameraeye said:

I was wondering this too. What if the R5 was designed and ready a while ago when Canon were still conservative on the video specs side and changed course late in the day.

I've been wondering that as well, actually - whether Canon were originally aiming for feature parity with the A7Riii and Z7, only for Sony to throw them a major curveball with the A7Riv, leading Canon to hastily beef up the camera's video specs in order to prevent it from being dismissed as yesterday's news as soon as it was announced.

But then again, that would only explain the R5. There'd still be no valid reason for the R6 to overheat as much as it does, other than Canon having some bizarre desire to continue the 6D family's tradition of being absolutely hopeless for video.

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

They are still unfit for my purposes but I am glad he mentioned some limitations that almost no reviewers are discussing like the card recording and record limits. I feel like he gave Canon a bit too much of a pass as well but like you said...vendors are not going to give reviewers products if they know they will be completely slammed by those reviewers.

 

IMO the R5 and R6 are more than just a marketing fail...they are an actual failure of epic proportions that may not get fixed unless buyers keep voting with their wallets and exiting to Sony in droves. Every buyer of the R5 and R6 are just a vote in Canon's favor letting them know their grand bait and switch strategy worked.

Why Sony specifically? I think buying Fujifilm, Nikon or Panasonic would send the message just as well.

28 minutes ago, shooter said:

hdmi isn't limited to 4k?

HDMI 2.0 can do 8K up to 30Hz. It's anything above that you need HDMI 2.1 for.

11 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

He shot in 1080p 🤣🤣  All that hype of 8K and its basically a usable 1080p camera; just like all the other Canon cameras.  

I'm not sure, is the 1080p line skipped, pixel binned.. I would hate to shoot a Wedding with a 8K camera that was line skipping to 1080p.

Ironically, the 1080p mode might actually be quite decent if they're using the same kind of approach as the 5DS, which used pixel binning to get a ~2.5K image that was downsampled for the final output, and produced arguably the best 1080p image of any of Canon's DSLRs.

6 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Do we know it's the same sensors as the Z6 ?  I would think they would have anew "Sony" sensor to work with.

All the rumours have been pointing to the Z6S using the same sensor as the Z6, with with an extra Expeed processor, a second XQD slot (probably with CFExpress support out of the box this time), and maybe one or two other design tweaks.

6 minutes ago, Django said:

So just when Canon & Sony are finally going out guns blazing with top video specs... Nikon decides to go full reverse with 1.7x crop and still no log or 10-bit? 
 

...on a low-end camera that's intended as a competitor for the A7ii (no 4K at all, worse battery life, weaker IBIS implementation) and the EOS RP (awful, barely usable 4K with a comparable crop, even worse battery life, no IBIS at all). The Z6S is the one that's going to be going up against Canon's and Sony's new entries.

38 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

So is the sensor in the Z5 pretty much the same sensor in the D750???

If it were, the AF would be contrast-detect only; the Z5's AF looks to be phase-detect.

13 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Cripple hammer, Nikon version: 1,7x crop in the Nikon Z5's 4k. This is getting ridiculous.

If they just had 4k30 full sensor would move a lot of units.

If it had full-sensor over-sampled 4k30, you'd basically have a Z6 with dual SD slots, a slightly smaller buffer and shooting rate, and no top screen. It wouldn't just move a lot of units, it'd completely cannibalize the Z6 and Z6S.

Once the early adopter tax wears off, the Z5 will most likely be competing against the EOS RP - and it should come out way in front in that comparison, seeing how it has IBIS and (unless Nikon have really been going to town on the cripple hammer) a flat profile, peaking, and zebras.

I thought the X-T4 (and X-T3) suffered from overheating problems after about 20 or so minutes as well?

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

Dual processors being advertised...uh oh. Olympus did the same thing and they are headed for the exits. Usually means lack of funds for investing in better tech.

Not necessarily. Canon have been releasing bodies with multiple DIGIC processors for quite a while now - mostly in the 1D series, but the 7D Mark II had dual DIGICs as well. Most likely Nikon's next Expeed processor isn't anywhere near ready for release yet, and they figured slapping a second one in there was good enough for what I'm guessing are incremental updates.

On 7/8/2020 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Is the 4K/60p APS-C only or full frame?

If Nikon are putting a second Expeed processor in the body, my guess is it'll be full frame. It's the same trick that Canon used when they needed to put 1080p60 in the 7D Mark II to tick that box on the feature set, but their newest DIGIC processor at the time was only capable of 1080p30; they just bunged a second processor in there to get the job done.

There must be at least something of a demand for long-yet-compact primes, seeing how you can still buy mirror lenses - and I'm guessing that people who use said lenses would be willing to pay a bit extra to gain autofocus and lose the infamously horrible bokeh that goes hand-in-hand with them.

I can certainly see the appeal of using these smaller lenses over their ungodly huge (albeit much faster) EF counterparts; still, it does make me wonder whether Canon intend on bringing out faster RF 600mm and 800mm lenses in the near future, or if they figure people who really need faster lenses will just adapt the EF versions.

Been looking around the websites of UK retailers, and stock of the EOS R seems to have dried up all of a sudden - the RP is in plentiful stock, as are all the full-frame mirrorless options from Sony, Nikon, and Panasonic, but hardly anywhere seems to have an R for anything like what you'd expect the normal price to be.

I suppose it's possible that either it's some COVID-related manufacturing/shipping issue, or that an inexplicably huge number of people have decided to buy them to use as vlogging cameras during lockdown, but still, it makes me wonder if Canon are intending to pull the plug on the R, and have the R6 slot in at its old price point.

The rumours do seem to be pointing to the R6 supporting 10-bit video in some way, but no indication as to whether that's internal, or the 8-bit internal/10-bit over HDMI split that a lot of mirrorless cameras seem to go with.