tyger11

2 hours ago, scotchtape said:

So the rumor mill says this is basically the a7siii... is everyone still excited?

I'm excited, but I would've been much more excited if it had been an A7SIII with eND instead of IBIS. *shrug* Still very interesting depending on the details. I think there's room for an FX4 in the lineup now. Take the guts of the A1 and add e-ND instead of IBIS, add SDI and in-camera raw, and call it a day.

Time for a new Magic Lantern?

Still waiting for the long-rumored FX6.

On 10/19/2018 at 12:33 AM, Mattias Burling said:

Viltrox to the rescue. They are both cheaper and sharper in the side by sides I've seen. And it probably has their imo genius focus adjustment. 

https://www.canonwatch.com/its-finally-coming-viltrox-0-71x-speed-booster-for-the-canon-eos-m-system/

Good news for EOS M owners, but way too late for me; I've gotten rid of all my Canon lenses, and am putting my last two bits of Canon gear up on eBay later today; I'm done with this company.

Going forward for me, it's likely to be the Pocket 4K for straight-up video work, or Fuji for hybrid. I was pretty shocked at Fuji's progress with the X-T3. I'll probably wait for the X-H2, though, to separate it enough from the Pocket 4K. I just hope they add a fully articulating screen. I don't know why all the companies are being so stupid about that. Even Panasonic has apparently gone off their rocker in that regard with the S1/S1R. SMH.

Would the 4:2:0 internal vs 4:2:2 external with the X-T3 make any difference?

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I wonder if anyone will be brave enough to make a Speed Booster specifically for that 1.8x crop 4K? @Brian Caldwell 

The usual 0.71x adapters will I am sure come onto the market first, but then in 4K that will still be a 1.3x crop and not full frame.

0.60x Speed Booster would do the trick.

Then finally we have full frame 4K H.264 from Canon with Canon LOG, after so long.

Also with the flange being 20mm, that is more than E-mount, so more space for the Speed Booster optics to extend back into the mount close to the sensor.

I kept hoping MetaBones would release the SpeedBooster for using EF lenses on the EOS M cameras that they had in development, but Canon hobbled the EOS M platform so badly that there didn't seem to be a big enough market for it. I loved my little M back in the day, but really, the M platform should be WAY more advanced by now. An M5II with IBIS and 4K DPAF would be the best vloggers camera ever made. Canon sure likes leaving money on the table.

I thought I read that the RF mount is closed, so to not expect any third party lenses (at least none with AF) until reverse engineering is done, maybe never? I'd never invest in this system until that question is answered, unless one intends to stick with Canon lenses.

I'm done giving this company money; not even going to be buying Canon lenses going forward.

2 hours ago, Nikkor said:

Let's talk in 2 years.

btw, do yourself a favor and buy the pentax67 to gfx speedbooster, get the 105mm 2.4.

Once you see the results, sell all your canon crap and get the gfx 100

https://www.josephdagostinophotography.com/blog/2018/1/10/fujifilm-gfx-and-pentax-105mm-24

Focal reducer, not a SpeedBooster (which is a brand by MetaBones). You had me confused that MetaBones had jumped into MF for a minute there. 

22 minutes ago, noone said:

I don't see how (or why) that applies.

Maybe it just SEEMS that way since global shutters have not been in the cameras with the greatest DR yet.

Is there some science that supports that (I don't know either way, just how it seems)?

This is a known fact for those that have looked into it. You generally lose about 1.5 stops of DR by implementing GS. As KnightsFan notes, at some point, the amount of DR even with a GS will be good enough to overcome the penalty. If they can come up with 13 stops of DR even with GS, that's going to be plenty for almost all videographers, all other things being equal. Not enough for Hollywood, but they're not operating at this price point, anyway, so the point is moot for them.

I'm more interested in Panasonic's sensor announcement from earlier this year of an 8K GS sensor with on-sensor ND. That is some spicy tech!

10 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless it is going to shoot 6K, which isn’t really any kind of video standard. The video standard after 4K is 8K.

That's a straw-man argument. 6K downsampled to 4K output results in a very detailed image, and is something Sony already does with their a6500 and a6300 cameras.

Canon EF‑S 10‑22mm F/3.5‑4.5 USM has a better aperture range than the 10-18, though it's still not great.

The 8K stacked BSI GS on-die ND sensor is likely, IMHO, to first show up in their cinema line first. I hope I'm wrong, though.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

But price difference?!

And colour.

And C-mount glass.

And ergonomics & menus.

All true, but with the Sony, you get IBIS, 6K to 4K downsampling, 30p, no crop in 4K, much better bitrate, and a much better native lens selection (and a much better selection of lenses if you're willing to use and adapter). Things could get more interesting on that front if MetaBones comes out with an EF to EF-M SpeedBooster. Supposedly they had one ready back in the day, but never bothered to bring it to market when the M tanked.

If you're willing to shoot in Slog and grade your footage, the Canon color advantage goes away.

Price and ergonomics are the only advantages. In its price class, though, yeah, the M50 is a quite good 1080 camera. I;'m hoping the Magic Lantern folks can turn it into a beast.

20 hours ago, roccoforte said:

Interesting. How does this camera compare to the Sony a6500?

Hilariously bad compared to an a6500; not even remotely in the same class.

2 hours ago, kye said:

There's no doubt that Canons huge lens catalog helps to keep customers from changing systems, and we definitely live in a time of ecosystems.

If they did decide to jump head-first into the mirrorless market how long would it take for them to build up a decent lens selection?  It would be interesting to know how long it took them to build previous lens systems - I'm assuming they happened slowly and steadily but I could be wrong.

Considering how important lenses are, it could be a huge factor in their business model in coming times, and if the rumours about an ILC XC20 eventuate then they'll need to have a decent collection for it.  Maybe that's why the first two had fixed lenses - they weren't ready to unveil their masterpiece EOS-M lens lineup!!  (Here's hoping!!)

I don't think it would take that long for them to roll out a good selection of EF-M lenses, considering how many mirrorless lens patents they've filed over the years since the original EOS M camera came out - they just haven't manufactured them. I think the EF and EF-S lineup is much larger than is actually necessary (well, pro EAF-S lenses don't exist). A full lineup of primes from 20mm to 85mm at f/2 apertures, and 100 to 135 f/2.8 would be fine. 200mm+ at f4, and 2.8 for the zoom trinity are for pros, really. The big problem with rolling out a new lens lineup is that it'll actually be TWO lens lineups for mirrorless - APS-C and Full Frame. That's what would wind up taking a while, I suspect. They've never come out with a true pro-level APS-C lens, though the 17-55 f/2.8 IS is close.

I think the possibility of a 1.5" sensor XC20 with EF-M mount would be pretty great, especially with 40k60p, DPAF and CRL at high bitrates would be pretty killer - some competition for the GH5.

But for the price, nobody is going to compete with the Pocket 4K, unless you need good AF.

Keep in mind if you turn on EIS (which you really should not), the crop factor goes up or way up (2 levels of EIS are available).

I consider this a pretty nice 1080p camera, for the price. Too bad about the lens selection, but that may change soon-ish if Canon really does jump head-first into the mirrorless market.

I also liked my EF-M 11-24 lens, back when I had it. It had IS, and was by far the best EF-M lens with IS.

Really, if they had gone with SDI instead of HDMI and bumped up the price to $1500, I think most people in the market for what the P4K can do would be very happy, but no matter what port you leave out or limitation you build in, somebody is going to be unhappy. I think it's unfortunate they've limited the HDMI to 1080p, but in the end, it's not that big a deal considering the other options. I'd only use it for framing, but if BM decides not to put ProRes raw in this camera, that was the last chance to get it via an external recorder at full resolution.

Wasn't there a patent earlier this year for a 1.5" sensor (slightly bigger than m43)?

If the rumors are true and Canon is actually committing to mirrorless later this year, then using the EF-M mount with an optional EFEF-S-to-EF-M speedbooster (made by Canon) would be a great move, made usable across multiple Canon cameras (1.5", APS-C, FF).

I've learned the hard way to never discount Canon's ability to screw over potential customers, though. Plus no holding off on purchases to see what Canon will come out with. They've thrown away all trust at this point. And their patents have a nasty habit of never becoming real products, so nobody should be getting excited at this point.

3 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Not true. He uses most of the time AF, especially when on gimbal.

the case of Brandon is more a proof that AF is amazing for video, than the contrary.

I've seen him comment on a 'making of' video somewhere where he specifically said he doesn't use AF, so I don't know what else to say.

33 minutes ago, RWR said:

Those are empty egg shells..just trying to win some road respect.

Maybe he's taking them to be refilled. It's the ecological choice.

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

sure, anything's possible.

Looks very safe, with all those crumple zones.

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

Having reliable AF-C is indispensible for gimbal work.

Of course, it depends on what you're doing. Brandon Li does the best gimbal work I've seen and often doesn't use AF at all.

6 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

What are we nicknaming this camera anyway? BMPCC4K? P4K? Batcam? 

I've started calling it the P4K after I saw someone use it. BMPCC was already kind of ridiculous, but BMPCC4K went straight to plaid.

P4K-422 sounds like a Stargate SG-1 destination. 

2 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I agree with him, in the photography still world the technical performance has plateaued out, with only incremental improvements now. 

When will we reach this in the video world?

I reckon the BMPCC4K could be the beginning of the end. 

Nah, not until GS & on-sensor ND hits. And maybe a Foveon-style thrown in to boot.  But all that technology exists, along with CFexpress to record it on (even 8K raw). Also DPAF. The problem is getting all that in a camera from the same manufacturer. Ugh.

24 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

They're still slower than built in ones. 

And you can't use it with a focal reducer, or with native lenses. 

 

I was hoping Sony was going to pump their hybrid tech into the FS5II, but that turned out to be a major dud. Their auto e-ND is unmatched so far. Panasonic has an 8K sensor with GS and on-sensor ND coming; no announcement yet on what camera (wouldn't be surprised to see that on a Varicam first), or when, but that tech IS coming sooner rather than later.

53 minutes ago, amanieux said:

with raw recording at 1TByte/hour, a internal m2 slot for cheap m2 ssd would have been a much better choice (smaller volume than their choice of cf+sd slots and a 1TByte m2 ssd is only $230 so it is cheaper, offers larger capacities and it is much faster than sd or cf https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073SB2MXT/ref=twister_B07BXC53V5

Those aren't meant for swapping out all the time like SD or CFast. Maybe in some kind of sled, or a U.2 configuration. CFexpress is the NVMe standard coming up, but nobody's implemented it in a camera yet so far as I know. Maybe in the next generation of cameras...