Germy1979

Just sayin..  I'm all for different tools, looks, etc.  If you start with a raw image, you can make it look like you set it on fire if that's your aesthetic.  Andrew's talking about having an image that gives you the most freedom.  Because It's a lot harder to polish a turd if you change your mind later on.   

You guys are not thinking the big picture here.

Since when technology is moved based on just needs? It's moved by several reasons.

It's not a matter of needing it, did we really need 3D? NO! It's a matter of pushing tech forward and creating new things to sell, some you will need, some will work and some will not.

Just for a second, if they don't push 4K for consumers how in the f**** world will they even sell their TVs, how will they push the movie industry, sell these new stuff or have 4K content? You have to create an ecosystem and fill every possible gap and at some point 4K will matter, people will be able to extract something out of it.

You can crop while keeping 1080p~2.5k, as someone said, if it's not sharp at 4K, maybe you can get it at a lower res and in the future there will be more ways to use it.

Questioning if you need or not at this point doesn't make much sense, no matter what, they will push 4K forward.

 

 

Porn just took the leap.  I was apprehensive until that happened.  lol.

hello friend, you seem lost.
 
this is a thread about nuances in cinematography: its an "In Depth Test" of Camera A vs Camera B vs Camera C vs Camera D

For real. Like we've never had the content is king rant here before.

Thanks for stopping by bro. We had no idea.. Lol

Sony already has a ND filter in a $1,300 camera.  I don't see why it would be unreasonable to ask for it in a camera that is over twice the price... and comes with no lens.

Yeah I don't know why the sentence cut off and continued on the next line, but the whole comment was that I couldn't see them putting their pro video super-35 camera in the same price point as the F5 and the C500.

The Varicam? Maybe, but I'm thinking that's going to be much more in line with the F5 or C500 price-wise. Plus they've been showing that mockup at trade shows for two years now whilst the rest get on with putting their to market. Sadly I think Panny's share of the pro video market is slipping into the ether.

Maybe, but being reasonably priced wouldn't be too far fetched considering what they're offering here possibly in the GH4 for $3k...?
Raw, Built in ND's, Global shutter, (and whatever else people are bitching about on here that's missing. ) - I can't see them putting it in
The F5, C500 price range. They seem to have a trend of under-cutting Canon and Sony, (which isn't hard actually, lol.). I bet they
Put it under $10k... But who knows:). I can't see it being $20k and up though.

Regarding Panny's place in the pro video market, they've been saying they're going to be a part of it these last couple of years, but nobody's seen anything sustainable.....yet.. It's basically Panasonic watching the market unfold
since the demise of the AF-100 from the sidelines. Watching what's available at what price points now. You almost have To email Blackmagic and thank them for opening the floodgates..and while were at it, Magic Lantern for bringing raw to a whooole lot of people.

Despite having accessible 4k (compressed) raw now with a global shutter, and full out 2.5k -13 stops of DR uncompressed raw for under $5k, there's still a market for Panny to fill. The one HUGE thing Canon seem to
Have that the rest can't in the C line is out-freaking-standing lowlight and clean as a whistle high ISO capability.
I could shoot clear up to iso 12,000 on my C100 and not see any noise hardly. It was the shit. But it's image still wasn't a hair on the ass of a 12 bit raw cinema dng. Most of us are looking to spend comfortably around $5k it seems. What we're getting is pretty badass considering where we came from, but for now, we're probably still going to have to deal with getting "some" of the features we want and working around the ones we didn't get.

It's probably why Alexa's and Epics are still out of our price range, lol

You people crack me up. You finally get an affordable 4K Panasonic GH model that you've been begging years for, finally has ALL the video-specific features for audio, proper codec, MFT lens, portable ergonomics... and your first reaction?
 
"No ND filter?!  WORTHLESS!"
 
Ungrateful kids...
 
_{*curmudgeon curmudgeon*}

No sh-t! Lol!

Built in ND's are one thing i do miss coming from the C100. Going to the BMCC was a hike in the image but a trip to the damn Stone Age
At the same time, lol. You could be setup for a shot with the C100 in no time. Normally i'd not give 2 sh-ts about whether a cam had "built in"
ND's until I got to use them in practice. That little feature just glides right into your workflow like it belongs there, and you miss it when you don't have them. Plus, GOOD ND is REALLY f'n expensive. I'm talking Schneider, B+W, Heliopan. It friggin blows swapping step rings, and stacking.
You're just f'n around for 5 more minutes! That's not very run & gun for sure. I'm not big on Variable ND's either.

Who says?  As a pro operator I'm REALLY fed up with the obsession to pack everything into a tiny space.  The ergonomics of the AF101 are vastly better than rigging up a DSLR and watching bits drop off it. It's size was right for handheld or tripod / slider work and the buttons and inputs made sense to anyone who's operated a video camera. Almost every time I go on a DSLR shoot, something breaks, from HDMI cables to monitors dropping off rigs.  DSLRs are great for walking around getting GVs without permission, but useless for almost everything else.  Why Panny have abandoned the AF line is a complete mystery - if they were to put this rumoured GH4 into the same body as the AF101 I'd buy it in a heartbeat, and pay twice this rumoured price at least - so would many others.

The other big rumor from Panny is a super-35 announcement at NAB to officially replace the AF-100 and rain down on the Cinema EOS Line like a hate crime. (Which, spec wise, the GH4 will do as well if this is what it gets). - but the NAB announcement is probably the one you're looking for.

Shhhhiiiit.... If you pack these specs in a Gh body I can walk around with for $3k, let's do it. This whole 8 bit thing needs to just go away
Though. Seriously. The technology is there. Just, be done with it already. I hope by the end of next year i never see that spec on an announcement again, because to me, what's the sense in packing a camera with a 4k, 200+ Mbps codec and bottle necking it with 8-bit? So you can see all of that banding in pristine quality? (1-DC?).

I see 2 groups here really. Guys that favor the maximum image quality from these cameras, and the guys that need a quick turnaround.
I haven't looked hard into the pocket because I have it's bigger brother... However if i were a run and gun operator that needed a high quality
Image without the raw workflow ass pain, doesn't the pocket offer a Rec. 709 (video) mode as well? Most work I've done for web distribution, broadcast, podcast, etc, was 1080i 60i (30p). (I don't know how you boys do it in pal land).

I guess my point is coming from the 8-bit limitation of the non-raw suggestions here. For $1000 you have a 10 bit option with a top notch codec
and 13 stops of DR if you want it. It also looks like it has better lowlight than it's 2.5k sibling. (Wtf?...). For run and gun, I'd probably still shoot
In film mode and add a LUT like Captain Hook's in post. Maybe 30 seconds of tweaking from there if you know what you're doing, and you have
a gorgeous, balanced shot in a great codec you can export to whatever. I'd assume if you're working, you'd rather have more room to fix a mistake if you had to in post.

Other than over cranking, even for run & gun it just seems like the pocket cam would still be the way to go for versatility. Especially being in the same price range as these 8 bit options.

Edit - For the love of God, this is just my attempt at a logical suggestion & my personal preference (even being a bmcc owner) - is the 5D3 raw. Please don't hit me with "fan boy." This isn't Star Wars, they're cameras.

I think when it comes down to it, the poor little pocket cam is like the underdog in a boxing competition.  It's like Rocky Balboa in Rocky IV. Ivan Drago Aka the 5DM3 is all like "I must break you", then you got Apollo Creed Aka GH3, being all flashy thinking he stands a chance against Drago, But Drago brings out the RAW guns and beats the GH3 to death with them. Then Rocky is like, I'm going to beat Drago, Drago is like pffft, no way, then he realises, oh no Rocky might actually stand a chance.

This is just a great metaphor. Lmao..

A hacked 1DX would be a damn beast. All that processing power, it's a lowlight/clean iso monster, I mean..
The overcrank capability on it would be awesome also. The CF cards would be the biggest gripe, besides the price tag.
It sucks Canon had to pull out the legal card on this one. I almost pulled the trigger on it when I had the money a year ago
Because it's an amazing stills camera, and even the 8 bit video is gorgeous on it. But just like the rest of their lineup,
It could be so much more. Somebody in that company needs an enema I swear to god.

GH3 is the over all winner for me. Top features: Full HD at 60 fps, continuous recordable time, time code (for mutli cams), easy post workflow, practical ergonomics.

 

https://vimeo.com/72737956

Overcrank at 1080 and longer record times...  I don't think it could do this though.

 

https://vimeo.com/71692234

So I'm looking at my 2.5k bmc like it farted while I was eating. ...From what I'm to gather as of recent, the pocket cam not only has no "black hole sun" issue, it apparently does better in lowlight than it's more expensive, bigger sibling?

(Sigh.....Blackmagic must be sending my bmcc's from the lemon dept. clearance rack.)

The 5D3 raw is probably my next venture. Even if it is about 2 stops shy of the blackmagics in the highs, it blows out pretty sexy. That's one thing I always thought Canon did well with the Mark 2 even with the 8 bit limitation. (I still like the "look" of the Mark 2 sensor more than the 3, lol) The Mark 3 raw stuff seems to really do it well when people aren't grading everything to show off how "raw" their footage is. (No shadow left dark, no highlight blown). Though I probably couldn't fathom a perceivable difference between 12 bit and 14 bit color, you can't deny how vivid
and rich the 5D3 raw stuff is compared to Blackmagic's cameras. If you can have a desirable image in the world that doesn't have the words "film look" attached to it, ML raw with Canon color science is a gorgeous aesthetic.

Great fan of making ofs, fan of the DV Rebel's Guide, great fan of the traditional make-believe approach that the great masters of the silent movie era began, great fan of meticulous storyboards and so forth, I hope this old clip might inspire you:

That was awesome!!!

This cam was I'm pretty sure designed for the one man band.. (Despite coming bare bones, lol.). By myself, I don't have a problem shooting a video the way they recommend. On a production where the director wants to watch a reference monitor on the other hand, something like the new Small HD monitors that have LUT's would probably have to happen. Those are almost as much as the camera though, & since the whole concept of the bmcc is basically "affordable" amazing images, that kind of defeats the purpose.

Anyway, Go Denver!

So after discussing the BMCC and ETTR, I wanted to get an understanding of the 5D3's "preferred" settings for exposure.  On the BMCC you set raw, 800asa, and expose just under the zebras for best results...  However, I haven't found much in the way of the optimum setting on ML raw 5D3.  I've heard you're supposed to ETTR on that as well, but which ISO is preferred?  (Not sure if a native ISO plays into this or not..)  Also, how far to the right are we talking?  lol.. 

 

THanks guys:)

It's only a decade or so ago that everyone was using film. You didn't see ANYTHING, and had to use external tools like light meters, and judge your exposure based on experience. You didn't really know what you had until the film was processed.
Since DSLR's everyone is used to seeing a beautiful image on an LCD screen.
The simple thing with the BMC is that you can shoot a scene to test, drop it into Resolve on a laptop and in a minute or so see a perfectly graded image. Almost like working with film, but much, much faster.
There is no default noise reduction in the camera by the way. You do it in Resolve. That's better isn't it? You are in control, not the default setting in the camera.
If you see the blackmagic workflow as a bug, that's your right. I like the end result much more than DSLR. It's your loss if you can't be a little more flexible.

It's not the workflow that bothers me. The image is rewarding if you nail it, and part of the fun of shooting with this camera
Is the excitement of post and seeing what you can do. I used to be all about the film look.. The film look this, the film look that.
Once I got ahold of a 12 bit raw file in motion it was like lifting the veil. Now, I'm having more fun "painting" these images, than going for that
Typical film look...There's a lot more color range to play with than all of the 8-bit files i worked with for so many years.
So the bmcc has made grading fun again.

The problem with the noise floor on this cam is why you have no choice but to blow it out. Neatvideo is great, yes, post noise
Reduction is far better than in cam reduction, unless you're shooting something with lots of detail. Then all of that post reduction doesn't
Matter because it all goes to watercolor painting smudge.

No one is saying it is a bad camera. For $2000 the image is undeniable & if we could afford it, we'd all probably be shooting on Alexa's.
But I understand where KarimNassar is coming from regarding the actual shoot and representation of what you're looking at vs what you're
Recording. A director isn't going to look at a screen full of white mass and watch his scene unfold on set that way.
Even in the days of film, the director had a properly exposed reference monitor with a set of headphones.

HDMI is 10bit on the $999 Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera so no excuses Sony!

Right? Be kind of pointless IMO to have all of these awesome features, all wrapped up in a bag of 8-bit avchd!

Raped.

Anyone have the lowdown on whether the hdmi is 10-bit? That would be huge. A ninja 2 isn't really "that" big.

Sorry, I'm probably confused. Why?

The noise. That's why I'd assume you're supposed to all but clip the sensor. It's not awful, but don't add any sharpening.

This is probably the most informative thread I've read in a long time. I've never shot on a Red, or an Alexa, and I'm curious if you expose to the right on those like you have to on a bmcc. From many on set videos I've seen, the monitor is perfectly exposed. Nothing like the bmcc... But then again Red's are $15,000 and up, & Alexa's are... Well, a mortgage. Plus they have on set LUT's more than likely for that.

I use the ETTR technique... Just under the zebras, 800asa, film mode, raw. I'd like to expose a nice balanced shot with my eye, or a histogram on site, but i immediately have to worry about noise. Yes, this camera has loads of DR, but to me I feel like I'm punishing my highlights when i wash it out like they tell you. I pull them down in post, but it looks like the brightest points of the shot are still making a hard left turn. I have all the information, but it's ugly up there. Biggest mistake i ever made with this camera was hooking an Atomos Samurai up to it, and exposing a shot with the histogram.

k.
 
next time you want no opinion just say your question then
 
imagin your quote: "I'll be spending the [..] next month in a field down south blowing it all to hell, lol." in a speech bubble over your user pic.
 
happy hunting

Yeah, you know what man, sorry for being a dick. Seriously. That was pretty immature to defend the
Project when it was presented like a redneck with a camera & some explosives.. So my apologies
For blasting off over it. I like over the top humor. I see every cut in my head and think "how could anyone
Not laugh their asses off at this scene?" But, nobody's seen anything yet.

To follow up however, I found a squadron of rebuilt Huey Hogs about 45 minutes away that will begin memberships and event
Flying next year. Oddly enough the PR lady was very sweet and down to earth on the concept of working with me, and
The negotiation is pretty awesome considering they need a videographer to get the word out there. Double whammy

Well if you look at it that way, then yes it sounds retarded as hell. I wouldn't over analyze it to the point of negativity
Since you haven't seen storyboards, or know how the sunrise shot plays into the next, or rather anything for that matter, etc. I also wouldn't toss the regular condescending forum DP vibe of "amateur" on someone either. . (Good God I'm glad forums didn't exist when I was a kid getting into filmmaking.)
It's great you have an opinion on why it'll fail though! If every concept put to film required your point of view, a lot of people would probably
Keep their ideas at arms length sounds like. 95% of the sketch is in the delivery however, so while it's great you decided to
Throw your opinion in there, you don't know the details.

Other than that, thanks for having no input on my original question, lol. A simple no, or just "not replying" would've sufficed.... Alas everyone has an opinion.

If you were ambitiously enough, you would have enlisted already... getting your shots while flying some badass combat mission.. maybe you could even use some of the explosions!
 
 
yes, I´m not fond of the project... also the fun is in not killing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24VA0tTTsvM

I'm not sure if you're being a typical forum smartass with this comment or what, but thanks for your opinion....?....


.....anyway, moving forward.

So has anyone had experience getting military involvement for their feature?