Are the cameras worth it?

[markm]

The only improvement I can see is the codec or sensor and they no longer have to provide a fixed lens So are you really paying for R&D costs. Although since the 5dm2 and the release of large sensor cameras like the GH2 Shouldnt that cost be coming way down.

£20,000 or £600 just for a sensor to be unlocked perhaps in some cases.

As for ND filters 10 bit out form factor ALL been done before and often rather better.

Wouldn't an F3, C300 or a Sony FS700  as well as a lot of the overpriced DSLR's like the 5dm3 be a waste of money.

The evidence is there with the BMC and the GH2 Surely anyone investing in cameras right now will see their investment slide to worthless as manufacturers like BM make hit after hit either forcing other manufacturers to lower prices or to go out of business.

Although this is a great time for film makers there is now the potential to lose thousands within a year even.

[richg101]

I think once the BM camera actually comes into the public (and real life working) domain there will be a host of issues that become apparent that none of us will expect.  Nothing is perfect, and i seriously doubt you will see many BM camera actually in real world working situations.  I bet it's not durable enough for daily use.  Buttons might wear out,  lens mount might be a weak point  Hire companies will be less inclined to back the concept based on the fact that on the face of it, it devalues their business model.  Why back a BM camera and a few nikon zeiss lenses that will bring them 100-200/week? when pros with budgets will be more likely to go with industry standard F3 or red one and all the matching higher price lenses, tripod (worth more than the BM camera itself!) and the rest of the gear.  BM are priced too low to be considered by the hire firms, and too high to be considered by the guys using gh2's.

[richg101]

i just dont see a production hiring a bm camera and then a set of panchro's or master primes to use with it - hire companies make most of their money hiring the additions parts that go with high end cameras.  the ,arket for hiring a 2grand camera wont cough up enough to pay for the 50k set of lenses!

[markm]

rich I guess this is aimed more at indie film makers. £20,000 could get you an F3 with primes and a recorder. That could be an upper limit for an indie film maker if you wanted to really go to town. The lower limit being the GH2.

From my point of view I cant afford to invest in gear this year only to find next year its a tenth of the price and out of date. Its literally stopping me from investing in a camera now. The only investment I see as worthwhile is the GH2 and I miss the for factor and goodies of a proper video camera but just cannot justify the prices being asked and in a recession.

For those in my situation the BMC is brilliant. Although it shows the way it could still be done better IE larger sensor better mounting options etc. I think they may have missed an opportunity here that could cost them later.

The problem really is that the BMC will be followed up by a newer model that does the things it doesnt Whereas the BMC could have been a better spec in the first place for a target price of about £4000. The BMC has now given fair warning to Japanese manufacturers that others CAN cut the cost unlike red or ikonoscop and a lone manufacturer may just step in from nowhere like Red threatened to do.

Sony craftily sit on the sidelines with the FS700 ready to switch to 4k if and when this happens and the peripheral needed at a cost that competes IE the gamma curve on its media that cost £2700 that came down to nothing when the C300 competed.

Personally I think the manufacturers apart from BMC are still trying  to maintain the old school of expensive unnafordable pro gear except by TV and hollywood and a crippled indie market for the rest of us.

How soon will it be before the manufacturers unwillingless to let go of crippled and overpriced cameras leads to a complete change where even a camera like the Alexa is superceded by a £2000 camera made in china.

From what I can see there are already a lot of unhappy people out there who invested and got bit. I'm not queuing up to be one of them. For me the GH2 and perhaps the BMC will do until the manufacturers manage to sort themselves out.

Funny how they have all those marketing people paid wonderful salaries who can't work out the obvious.

[amband]

[quote author=markm link=topic=925.msg6724#msg6724 date=1341221871]
The only improvement I can see is the codec or sensor and they no longer have to provide a fixed lens So are you really paying for R&D costs.
[/quote]

a lot of it has to do with what the market will bear, and shareholders dividends rather than R & D, which would, of course be,a contributing factor

[FilmMan]

The world economic situation is not the best.  People want value for their hard earned cash.  A person has to be careful when buying a camera as the technology changes and prices depreciate rapidly.  Last year used Red MX packages went for $30K or so (from a new price of $35K).  This year they are going for around $12K.  That is a big hit.  My point is people have to be wise when selecting what they need.  Used Scarlet packages are cropping up and a $2K discount is inorder. 

There has been alot of talk about Canon with their "what they want to give" and their pricing.  Competition will have an impact on Canon.  Look what happen in the cell phone market.  For example, the company Research in Motion - Blackberry.  Apple with the iphone took the market.  Competition lurks.  If another competitior camera becomes embraced as the 5D2 then that will affect Canon's market share more than they envisioned.  Other companies, including Sony, Nikon, Panasonic, etc. (and possibly Leica) are in the video DSLR market and trying to gain their stake.  The next few months should paint a different picture of the camera landscape as BM and Kineraw come on the scene.  So spend wisely if purchasing a camera.  My ramblings for today.