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Apple reveal new 4K equipped Mac Pro suitable for uncompressed raw editing. Not just pro but genius!


Andrew Reid
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This new Mac pro sure is awesome but it likely needs high margin extra boxes in conjunction to it. 4K video editing that this machine is most certainly designed for needs ALOT of HDD space. Perhaps Apple has some nifty black box with round edges TB2 connected with plenty of HDD slots inside that they plan to sell as well. 

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What is so special about internal hard drives? 6Gbps SATA can't saturate 20Gbps T2. You need external RAID for 4K work anyway you slice it...and telling people to somehow squeeze it into a specific form factor buys you nothing but a bigger carbuncle on your carpet. External storage can be easily network accessible and replaceable, works instantly when switching machines for a render tank, can have any number of 3rd party competitors on a level playing field...I can't believe people would complain about that other than as vain justification for their own inability to buy one.

 

As for cost, if you look at the history of Mac Pro's...and I know hackintoshers will REALLY hate this point, but it's true...Apple buys Xeons and GPUs in such quantity that you can't match the launch price of a Mac Pro for the same spec no matter how much labor you're willing to take on to yourself. You can't. The Xeons alone cost you nearly the price of the whole Mac Pro. I predict the prices of this cylinder will be the same as the current Mac Pro prices but at least double the performance similarly configured, and it will be at least six months before some crude crummy hackintosh can be assembled to the same spec for less. This is how it's been since the first Intel Mac Pro's shipped and I doubt it's going to change.

 

And finally, as for crippleware, it's clear that Canon does engage in crippleware, Avid does, and nVidia also engages in crippleware, but Apple? There's only one edition of the OSes, they EOL support for older machines after a few years, and that's more or less justifiable. There are no arbitrary restrictions on running apps on any Mac model, they will all attempt to run whatever they can with no arbitrary impediments...FCPX needs a modern GPU, but can we really complain about that? I was able to buy a workable GPU for my Mac Pro 1,1 to keep running it cheaply. iOS is a curated platform, but Apple has more or less looked the other way on jailbreaks, and many of its restrictions are actually phone company restrictions Apple had to accede to. The MacOS is anything goes still. You can run Windows on the machines if you wish.

 

Where is the crippleware? Trust me I HATE crippleware. Apple doesn't do it. They cut out legacy crap like Firewire and optical drives but offer cheap enough adapters if you need them. Hate them for that?

 

I just hope the color on the Apple 4K Cinema Displays is great. The color on the iPads is great so I would think someone there gets it.

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A lot of the people that complain about Apple often don't create much content, they tweak. Professionals have money, they also are very busy, anything getting between them and doing their job is a cost. Building a Hacktintosh even if quite reliable when done is not even an option for most professionals. A piece of gear needs to be replaceable on a whim, if something breaks it needs to be swapped out for something that works ASAP. if you can't you lose money and credibility. I know it goes against a lot of the hacking that happens here but closed standardized systems are far better for professional work this includes iPads, iPhones etc. The problem with a lot of PC, Android, or whatever setups is that they really aren't very standardized and replacing a unit 1 to 1 is often not possible even after as little as a few months.

Nothing wrong at all with going the other route there are just many benefits people often look past when comparing the two. And I think most people would prefer Canon, Panasonic, Nikon or whoever made a camera with all their desired features from the factory rather than feeling the need to resort to hacking, fact is they aren't and they could be.

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What is so special about internal hard drives? 6Gbps SATA can't saturate 20Gbps T2. You need external RAID for 4K work anyway you slice it...and telling people to somehow squeeze it into a specific form factor buys you nothing but a bigger carbuncle on your carpet. External storage can be easily network accessible and replaceable, works instantly when switching machines for a render tank, can have any number of 3rd party competitors on a level playing field...I can't believe people would complain about that other than as vain justification for their own inability to buy one.

 

As for cost, if you look at the history of Mac Pro's...and I know hackintoshers will REALLY hate this point, but it's true...Apple buys Xeons and GPUs in such quantity that you can't match the launch price of a Mac Pro for the same spec no matter how much labor you're willing to take on to yourself. You can't. The Xeons alone cost you nearly the price of the whole Mac Pro. I predict the prices of this cylinder will be the same as the current Mac Pro prices but at least double the performance similarly configured, and it will be at least six months before some crude crummy hackintosh can be assembled to the same spec for less. This is how it's been since the first Intel Mac Pro's shipped and I doubt it's going to change.

 

And finally, as for crippleware, it's clear that Canon does engage in crippleware, Avid does, and nVidia also engages in crippleware, but Apple? There's only one edition of the OSes, they EOL support for older machines after a few years, and that's more or less justifiable. There are no arbitrary restrictions on running apps on any Mac model, they will all attempt to run whatever they can with no arbitrary impediments...FCPX needs a modern GPU, but can we really complain about that? I was able to buy a workable GPU for my Mac Pro 1,1 to keep running it cheaply. iOS is a curated platform, but Apple has more or less looked the other way on jailbreaks, and many of its restrictions are actually phone company restrictions Apple had to accede to. The MacOS is anything goes still. You can run Windows on the machines if you wish.

 

Where is the crippleware? Trust me I HATE crippleware. Apple doesn't do it. They cut out legacy crap like Firewire and optical drives but offer cheap enough adapters if you need them. Hate them for that?

 

I just hope the color on the Apple 4K Cinema Displays is great. The color on the iPads is great so I would think someone there gets it.

 

 

 

Regular HDD's are the go to solution for us little guys. Untill we get hair over our balls :D When thinking about storage needs for this kind of new platform think hybrid and fast. Professional 4k production will likely benefit from storage devices that have SSD*s for the write tasks and regular HDD's where the data can be offloaded from the still more expensive SSD's .. Think about offloading multiple SSD's at the same time to the storage box to save time.

 

Let's do a quick example of workflow constraints when using 5DIII raw. You record 10 x 128GB cards allmost full of material during a days shoot.

 

Say that is 1200 GB of data writing that to a SSD one CF at time with not time spent to the actual pluggin in the cards with an estimate of 120MB/s write speed get's us 1200 / 0.12 = 10 000 / 60 = 166.6 minutes  .. now add CF swaps 30 seconds per swap = 6 minutes .. we are at 172 minutes for the offload process.

 

Now if we had SSD's instead of CF's we would be at 200-320MB/s write speed a modest estimate for single drive configuration. Read speeds dont matter as much as long as they surpass the write speed or match it. Say a production team with 10 x 256 GB SSD would be looking at say 2200 GB of data... that takes 2200 / 0.32 = 6875 / 60 = 114 minutes + the SSD swaps = rough 2 hours in optimal circumstances.

 

Now enter multiple SSD copying at the same time .. there is where the bandwith comes handy. .. TB2 connections are enablers and not limitations. How ever they add extra cost overhead for the small guys. Since boxes based on them are higher margin items. But hey I'm not whining per se that Apple builds this amazing design with foward looking hardware .. Even tho Apple should have asked Intel to release the optical thunderbolt instead of some cheap capitalistic incremental update (copper version 2).

 

What comes to Apple and criple ware. Apple can remotely uninstall software from your Iphone if they feel like it. But I 'm no expert of Apple computers and their OSX side. I have close to 0 experience with them.

 

The color of Apple 4K screens should be good if the past ~23" IPS screens are any indication for their future products.

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As for cost, if you look at the history of Mac Pro's...and I know hackintoshers will REALLY hate this point, but it's true...Apple buys Xeons and GPUs in such quantity that you can't match the launch price of a Mac Pro for the same spec no matter how much labor you're willing to take on to yourself. You can't. The Xeons alone cost you nearly the price of the whole Mac Pro. I predict the prices of this cylinder will be the same as the current Mac Pro prices but at least double the performance similarly configured, and it will be at least six months before some crude crummy hackintosh can be assembled to the same spec for less. This is how it's been since the first Intel Mac Pro's shipped and I doubt it's going to change.

 

And finally, as for crippleware, it's clear that Canon does engage in crippleware, Avid does, and nVidia also engages in crippleware, but Apple? There's only one edition of the OSes, they EOL support for older machines after a few years, and that's more or less justifiable. There are no arbitrary restrictions on running apps on any Mac model, they will all attempt to run whatever they can with no arbitrary impediments...FCPX needs a modern GPU, but can we really complain about that? I was able to buy a workable GPU for my Mac Pro 1,1 to keep running it cheaply. iOS is a curated platform, but Apple has more or less looked the other way on jailbreaks, and many of its restrictions are actually phone company restrictions Apple had to accede to. The MacOS is anything goes still. You can run Windows on the machines if you wish.

 

Where is the crippleware? Trust me I HATE crippleware. Apple doesn't do it. They cut out legacy crap like Firewire and optical drives but offer cheap enough adapters if you need them. Hate them for that?

 

 

Had some time to waste so I looked it up: Quad Core 2.4 around 350$:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=W3565&LH_BIN=1&_osacat=164&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC0.A0&_nkw=E5620&_sacat=164

Xeon 2.4 6 core : http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR5.TRC1.A0&_nkw=E5645&_sacat=0&_from=R40 - 550$

 

 

Checked another cpu 6 core 3.33GHz. New one for 650$: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-UP-W3680-3-33-GHz-Processor-Socket-B-LGA-1366-BX80613W3680-/350697339131?pt=CPUs&hash=item51a730b8fb

then I checked cheapest Mac pro with this cpu: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Desktops-AllInOnes-/171957/i.html?_nkw=mac+pro+six+core&_frs=1

2300USD

 

Please enlighten me. I must be doing something wrong. Where is Mac pro with 6 core 3.33GHz for around 650$? I'm buying it!!

Your talk about crippleware is similarly off as your talk about Xeons.

Information about what Xeons are in mac pros I found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro#Processors

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...Say that is 1200 GB of data writing that to a SSD one CF at time with not time spent to the actual pluggin in the cards with an estimate of 120MB/s write speed get's us 1200 / 0.12 = 10 000 / 60 = 166.6 minutes  .. now add CF swaps 30 seconds per swap = 6 minutes .. we are at 172 minutes for the offload process...

 

That's hardly the computer's fault, is it? Sounds more like a poor workflow to me :)

Why don't you buy a $200 Nexto hard drive or similar and off load each card as soon as you fill it up?

At the end of the day you'll have all your footage in one single faster hard drive, and I'm talking about a solution that is practical even for a lone shooter, because a small crew could have way more efficient workflows, so that by the time you finish shooting you're basically ready to start editing.

 

Computer hard drive speeds and expansions have little to do with that.

 

Had some time to waste so I looked it up: Quad Core 2.4 around 350$:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=W3565&LH_BIN=1&_osacat=164&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC0.A0&_nkw=E5620&_sacat=164

Xeon 2.4 6 core : http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR5.TRC1.A0&_nkw=E5645&_sacat=0&_from=R40 - 550$

 

Checked another cpu 6 core 3.33GHz. New one for 650$: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-UP-W3680-3-33-GHz-Processor-Socket-B-LGA-1366-BX80613W3680-/350697339131?pt=CPUs&hash=item51a730b8fb

then I checked cheapest Mac pro with this cpu: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Desktops-AllInOnes-/171957/i.html?_nkw=mac+pro+six+core&_frs=1

2300USD

 

Please enlighten me. I must be doing something wrong. Where is Mac pro with 6 core 3.33GHz for around 650$? I'm buying it!!

 

I'm not familiar with parts prices, but if you're looking at the present Mac Pros, their specs are not really top of the line, and the parts price has gone down a lot for sure. Try to see how much the CPUs cost for new one... (also, a computer is not just the CPU)

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Had some time to waste so I looked it up: Quad Core 2.4 around 350$:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=W3565&LH_BIN=1&_osacat=164&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC0.A0&_nkw=E5620&_sacat=164

Xeon 2.4 6 core : http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR5.TRC1.A0&_nkw=E5645&_sacat=0&_from=R40 - 550$

 

 

Checked another cpu 6 core 3.33GHz. New one for 650$: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-UP-W3680-3-33-GHz-Processor-Socket-B-LGA-1366-BX80613W3680-/350697339131?pt=CPUs&hash=item51a730b8fb

then I checked cheapest Mac pro with this cpu: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Desktops-AllInOnes-/171957/i.html?_nkw=mac+pro+six+core&_frs=1

2300USD

 

Please enlighten me. I must be doing something wrong. Where is Mac pro with 6 core 3.33GHz for around 650$? I'm buying it!!

Your talk about crippleware is similarly off as your talk about Xeons.

Information about what Xeons are in mac pros I found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro#Processors

 

The key term in my post was the launch price of the Mac Pro, not the current price. On launch the Mac Pro is cheaper than any comparable homebrew hackintosh can be made at the same spec. After six months or so the price of the separate Xeons goes down yet the Mac Pro's price stays the same.

 

So the key to victory in life is getting a new Mac Pro as soon as it is first delivered and then you get the cheapest machine for the spec you can get, anywhere, anyhow. This inconvenient truth is really hard to get through to the hackintoshers...they will somehow find a way to deny it. Watch.

 

And since it was you who tomekk that leveled the crippleware charge, I am waiting for your description of how Apple does crippleware. So far all I've heard is one poster said they can delete an app off your phone...that's a security feature, what if the app was malicious? That is not crippleware, where they are withholding functionality arbitrarily as a market segmentation and pricing strategy. I have no examples of Apple doing that in recent memory. Even the hackintosh is something they are turning a blind eye to...they don't let other vendors sell machines directly with their OS installed, but that's not crippleware, that's just their deciding their OS belongs to their hardware and no one else's...just like your favorite camera company's firmware isn't shared with other camera companies.

 

Anyway if you can't afford a new Mac Pro that's OK your workflow will take a little longer but you can make just as good a film. Lots of secondhand cheesegrater Mac Pros will be coming available at the end of the year with nice nVidia cards etc. that are serving pro's right now.

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The key term in my post was the launch price of the Mac Pro, not the current price. On launch the Mac Pro is cheaper than any comparable homebrew hackintosh can be made at the same spec. After six months or so the price of the separate Xeons goes down yet the Mac Pro's price stays the same.

 

So the key to victory in life is getting a new Mac Pro as soon as it is first delivered and then you get the cheapest machine for the spec you can get, anywhere, anyhow. This inconvenient truth is really hard to get through to the hackintoshers...they will somehow find a way to deny it. Watch.

 

And since it was you who tomekk that leveled the crippleware charge, I am waiting for your description of how Apple does crippleware. So far all I've heard is one poster said they can delete an app off your phone...that's a security feature, what if the app was malicious? That is not crippleware, where they are withholding functionality arbitrarily as a market segmentation and pricing strategy. I have no examples of Apple doing that in recent memory. Even the hackintosh is something they are turning a blind eye to...they don't let other vendors sell machines directly with their OS installed, but that's not crippleware, that's just their deciding their OS belongs to their hardware and no one else's...just like your favorite camera company's firmware isn't shared with other camera companies.

 

Anyway if you can't afford a new Mac Pro that's OK your workflow will take a little longer but you can make just as good a film. Lots of secondhand cheesegrater Mac Pros will be coming available at the end of the year with nice nVidia cards etc. that are serving pro's right now.

So at the time of the launch the strongest single 6 core CPU offered by mac was W6380 (3.33GHz) according to wikipedia. At the time of the launch it cost 1100USD (then price fell to around 600 today - http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+W3680+%40+3.33GHz&id=1274 ). What was the price of the MAC PRO with this CPU? Around 1100USD? I doubt that. 1500USD? Please send me some links now to back up your talk.

Instead of talking without any reliable data next time you post something I'd like to see links that back up your talk.

Inconvenient truth about apple is that apple is ripping you off (Price of CPU falls by 50% and u still pay the same price - amazing!).

Sorry I'm not going to spend time discussing about crippleware just because you say they don't. I've already spent time looking for historical data about XEONs just because you simply wrote one liner about how apple buys millions of CPUs so they get XEONS almost "for free" without any data confirming it. There was a thread about apple in the past when I wrote a little bit what I think about apple. Maybe someone will link you to it. If not, search. It's a simple forum.

If I write apple sucks and that's inconvenient truth about apple does it have any merit??? No. Same with your talk about Xeons.

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I'm not familiar with parts prices, but if you're looking at the present Mac Pros, their specs are not really top of the line, and the parts price has gone down a lot for sure. Try to see how much the CPUs cost for new one... (also, a computer is not just the CPU)

Top of the line is E7 Xeons processors family. Apple is gonna use E5 in the future so they will never be top of the line ;). I know computer is not just CPU but peederj  said: "As for cost, if you look at the history of Mac Pro's...and I know hackintoshers will REALLY hate this point, but it's true...Apple buys Xeons and GPUs in such quantity that you can't match the launch price of a Mac Pro for the same spec no matter how much labor you're willing to take on to yourself. You can't. The Xeons alone cost you nearly the price of the whole Mac Pro"

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If you can stick with a 6 core CPU and powerfull Graphics card you will save alot of money.

 

Fractal design XL case 100€

6 core Ivydrige-E Socket 2011 (for future IO expnasion needs) 500€  / 350€ for 4 core Ivybridge-E

Motherboard with plenty of SATA connectors and 8 DDR3 slots (thunderbolt connectors are a plus) 180-280€

32GB RAM - ~300€

Powerfull graphics card like GTX 680, 780   200-600 €

PSU that can handle 2 graphics cards when needed 120€

Proper cooler for the cpu.  50€

HHD's based on ones needs / budget .. 4 x 4TB Westerndigital RED/Green would be a good starting point for mass storage. ~1000€

FAST HHD's for system / initial data capture. ~500€

Blueraydrive 70€

Mouse 8-60€

Keyboard 10€ / pro keyboard 100€

OS windows 7 PRO. 300€

 

3980€ with the most expensive parts listed above (6core, 32GB ram(option for 64GB), 16TB+1TB harddrives, GTX780,WIN7PRO)

 

Will be interesting to compare the MAC PRO to one like this once prices are available.

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Seriously, this is like reminding people they could cook for themselves at home and save a buck or two everytime someone suggests a new restaurant. It's retarded!

I could give you an endless list of things you could make or build for yourself and save loads of money in the process, but what's the point?

We all know we can build our own computers and save 10 cents in the process, it's just that most of us have better things to do, get over it.

Building computers is a great thing for sure... if you're into building computers!
But if you're into filmmaking or movie editing, then you should probably be making or editing films instead.

People are here discussing a product they'd like to use (or not), why do you have to come here with the same old talk "oh if you cook at home you can use only the ingredients you like and it's much cheaper". Go build a computer or something!

That's all great for people with time and an interest for it, but that's just a few of you. If I get a larger project that requires another computer (or more) I can just grab one at the Apple store, turn it on and log into my apple account, and all my apps are there, do you think a client would wait for me to order all the parts and then spend a few days assembling and troubleshooting a new machine, even if that was what I really wanted to spend my time doing?

If I have to spend a day assembling a machine then I'm not saving any money at all. No one's forcing a Mac on you, if you don't like it move along, nothing to see here, I'm sure there's plenty of forums where you can talk about building your own computer and how much you'll save.
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I use HPZ800 workstation and it's pretty good for now. If I were doing 4K raw every day I'd want this, but for now I'm good with what I have!

 

Mosly I end up cutting C300 so these machines would be overkill! Most delivery is still SD...

 

They do look very cool and clever though

 

All the above is very valid for production environments. The premium you pay is for predictability and parity between systems, upscale and downscale without tech support.

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That looks like the OLD iMac, how is that evolutionary? :)

 

Like BMW 5 and BMW M5, same chassis, but alot more evolution under the hood. I love this one too, will just have to figure out how to customize/paint/poke holes in that Mac Pro cover so it doesn't look like a trash can.

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Seriously, this is like reminding people they could cook for themselves at home and save a buck or two everytime someone suggests a new restaurant. It's retarded!

I could give you an endless list of things you could make or build for yourself and save loads of money in the process, but what's the point?

We all know we can build our own computers and save 10 cents in the process, it's just that most of us have better things to do, get over it.

Building computers is a great thing for sure... if you're into building computers!
But if you're into filmmaking or movie editing, then you should probably be making or editing films instead.

People are here discussing a product they'd like to use (or not), why do you have to come here with the same old talk "oh if you cook at home you can use only the ingredients you like and it's much cheaper". Go build a computer or something!

That's all great for people with time and an interest for it, but that's just a few of you. If I get a larger project that requires another computer (or more) I can just grab one at the Apple store, turn it on and log into my apple account, and all my apps are there, do you think a client would wait for me to order all the parts and then spend a few days assembling and troubleshooting a new machine, even if that was what I really wanted to spend my time doing?

If I have to spend a day assembling a machine then I'm not saving any money at all. No one's forcing a Mac on you, if you don't like it move along, nothing to see here, I'm sure there's plenty of forums where you can talk about building your own computer and how much you'll save.

 

All points of view are as valid as the other ones. I havent said one needs to build a computer by them selves. I'm just offering another point of view on the subject. You are beeing rude for no reason.. you make it sound like If I'm not willling to sit at your fun club table with wide open wide puppy eyes staring the the black box of pieces of HW I should go away.

 

I do value your points on getting stuff up and runnig fast.

 

It is my understanding that this forum caters to a wide audience and signifficant part of that might not be yet in a position to financially consider a platform like the new mac pro. Alternative ways of acchieving the same level of tehnology is far from useless discussion.

 

Many of us have yet to earn our first dollar/ euro from paid video related work what we have done. So I would not generalize to much.

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All points of view are as valid as the other ones. I havent said one needs to build a computer by them selves.

 

I wasn't replying to you, but I'm sorry if I came across as rude, it's just that some people here ALWAYS bring up the same argument whenever a new computer model is being discussed, which is really annoying, we know we can build computers for ourselves, and obviously buying a bunch of parts will be cheaper than buying a quality design ready to use computer, but that's not what we're discussing here.

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Again I'm a huge fan of universal empowerment and a huge critic of price gouging, profiteering and crippleware. I'm also a big fan of truth and fairness and I personally don't think Apple is the evil company that needs to be overthrown. The new Mac Pro is going to be awesome for our 4K needs over the next 5 years and if you play in that sandbox it will be an excellent value (compare its cost to the cost of a credible 4K camera after all). Apple also has the 27" iMac core 7 which is an awesome machine for 1080p video work including a great screen, and then the Mini and laptops for cheap solutions that just work out of the box.

 

If you like to tinker, I see nothing wrong with building a PC, but I don't think it's fair to insist that that is a better strategy and justified because Apple is an evil money grubbing empire. It's just another strategy and good for those who are still at the stage where their pride comes more from their tools than their output. I think making less of a big deal about the tools and just focusing on the work done with them is going to get people where they want to be fastest, and while I'm a technophile certainly I don't go overboard with hacks and kludges and seeing if I can squeeze the last cent of savings. My batting average with such "great idears" isn't zero but it's usually not high enough to justify the time wasted.

 

Anyway when the new Mac Pro launches and we are able to buy the parts retail, I challenge tomekk to assemble the _exact same_ machine spec as hackintosh for less cost, even pricing assembly labor at 0. You won't. I can also say that it's impossible to match the quality of restaurant food cooking at home yourself for the same price. Believe it or not...economies of scale are so profound, and assembly labor so inexpensive, that you can't beat it DIY retail on commodity goods and even common artisanal goods. This is why applied creativity, making unique things, is our best hope of making a decent living.

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Again I'm a huge fan of universal empowerment and a huge critic of price gouging, profiteering and crippleware. I'm also a big fan of truth and fairness and I personally don't think Apple is the evil company that needs to be overthrown. The new Mac Pro is going to be awesome for our 4K needs over the next 5 years and if you play in that sandbox it will be an excellent value (compare its cost to the cost of a credible 4K camera after all). Apple also has the 27" iMac core 7 which is an awesome machine for 1080p video work including a great screen, and then the Mini and laptops for cheap solutions that just work out of the box.

If you like to tinker, I see nothing wrong with building a PC, but I don't think it's fair to insist that that is a better strategy and justified because Apple is an evil money grubbing empire. It's just another strategy and good for those who are still at the stage where their pride comes more from their tools than their output. I think making less of a big deal about the tools and just focusing on the work done with them is going to get people where they want to be fastest, and while I'm a technophile certainly I don't go overboard with hacks and kludges and seeing if I can squeeze the last cent of savings. My batting average with such "great idears" isn't zero but it's usually not high enough to justify the time wasted.

Anyway when the new Mac Pro launches and we are able to buy the parts retail, I challenge tomekk to assemble the _exact same_ machine spec as hackintosh for less cost, even pricing assembly labor at 0. You won't. I can also say that it's impossible to match the quality of restaurant food cooking at home yourself for the same price. Believe it or not...economies of scale are so profound, and assembly labor so inexpensive, that you can't beat it DIY retail on commodity goods and even common artisanal goods. This is why applied creativity, making unique things, is our best hope of making a decent living.


lol, actually, quality of home cooking is at least 10x higher than in restaurant for the same price. Belive it or not.
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