herein2020

@IronFilm @TomTheDP and I thought music videos were bad budget wise; they have nothing on this. I certainly do my fair share of low budget work especially when it is something new or challenging where I just want to see what I can come up with from a creative standpoint; nothing like a passion project to remind yourself why you got into this industry.

Are these full length feature films? I can't imagine how anyone makes money off of a feature film in that price range. Is the pay based on the final profits after the film is sold? I have worked on some photo shoots that had a bigger budget than that and that was just photography. Even with just my solo day rate I couldn't film a feature film for that price range let alone all of the additional expenses that goes into making something like that. I know a videographer that worked on something in that price range but he was still waiting yrs later to get paid because he got almost nothing up front and instead was getting paid based on a percentage of the sales. Just trying to wrap my head around how shooting/editing/color grading/delivering that much footage could be financially profitable especially considering all of the expenses and time that I imagine goes into making a feature film.

I tried to take pictures with my S5 but the EVF qualty was so bad that I never used it on a professional shoot. The S5 really cuts corners in the EVF and backscreen. I think there may be many others like me who tested the GH5 and S5 for pictures and subsequently dismissed Panasonic for photography. It did not help that with the S5 I wouldn't have been able to use any tracking or CAF modes for photography due to my EF lenses. For the few pictures I did take, I thought they were perfectly acceptable quality.

I think your best bet would be a shoulder rig, a small light one but still a shoulder rig; ENG news crews do it all day long and it looks great and very natural. If it's a walk and talk you will want the camera pretty high up to focus on the speaker's face and its even less stable like that when walking. I think your director doesn't know just how hard it is to walk with a camera without IBIS or a gimbal. Even with IBIS its still tough and IBIS introduces new problems like IBIS wobble. Another option is to use a gimbal but turn the stiffness way up, the nice thing about that approach is that you can dial in how much "natural" movement you want. You could show the director some sample footage like that. You could also use the gimbal but deliberately not use the ninja walk; stiffer settings combined with deliberately poor form will look a lot like handheld footage but not so bad that its unusable. Another option that I tried (but didn't like) was using a monopod like a glidecam; that looked very natural and handheld and the footage was still useable but its just not comfortable to use for very long and for me, keeping the horizon level was the hardest part. A final option is like others have said, just make your rig as heavy as possible and hope for the best. Below is how I rigged my S5 when I had it, I could briefly sit the V-Mount battery portion on my shoulder for eye level interviews or I could tuck the V-Mount portion under my arm and hold the handles for short walks and it was pretty stable. The biggest problem was seeing the screen, an ENG camera with an eyepiece would have worked better for this type of setup.

If you are considering a new camera body and you are not tied to the Canon lens ecosytem like I am the Panasonic S5II might be the better option. I still don't fully trust their new AF system and I feel like L Mount is a dead end, but the S5II does have some truly impressive specs and from everything I have read CAF works with the Sigma L Mount to EF mount adapter. That's not to say the R6II doesn't also have some impressive specs, but IMO Panasonic's MILC video tools are second to none for a hybrid camera. Also, my S5 definitely had slightly more DR than both the R5 and R7 to the point that it was noticeable even to me even though I don't typically care about such things. The R7, R6II, S5II, and A7IV all seem to be fantastic hybrid cameras with only a few details separating them; but even with the other 3's specs, I still think the R7 was the best choice for the types of projects that I shoot.

I absolutely think mine is the best purchase that I have made in a long time. I can't speak to MF lenses, I don't have any MF EF mount lenses; but I have not had any issues with EF lenses set to MF via the switch on the lens. The only IBIS issue I have had so far is I had to turn off the horizon leveling feature when using the R7 on a gimbal; otherwise the horizon slowly rocks from side to side. Also, the IBIS wobble is pretty bad around 24mm and wider but I try to stay 35mm and longer when filming people anyway so this doesn't really bother me. The only other issue I have with my R7 is sometimes the record button won't stop or start recording when in video mode. I either have to press it a few times or I have to hit the button on the touch screen; this mainly affects stopping a recording but a few times it has refused to start recording as well. I think it has something to do with coming out of standby or the power saving mode but I haven't tried to figure it out; possibly assigning the shutter button to start/stop recording could fix it. As far as overheating, it does great in that department so far. When set to 4KHQ @ 30FPS after about an hour of continuous recording the overheat countdown display will appear but as soon as you set it to line skipped it immediately counts back up and disappears. IMO the R7 is actually superior to the R5 in almost every way except resolution and of course its not FF. It handles heat better, the IBIS is better, battery life is better, hybrid hotshoe so audio is better, and cheaper dual SD slots so storage is also better. The only thing that the R5 is better at that I care about is lowlight since the R5 has the dual native ISO option. I could probably level the playing field there as well with a speedbooster but haven't shot much lowlight lately. I know everyone is going to shout from the top of their lungs that the R5 has a FF sensor so it has to be better, but personally I couldn't care less about sensor size, 8K, RAW, the pixel peeping level of IQ improvements because the R5 downsamples from 8K, or the shallower DOF for a given focal length. To me personally, the R7 as a 50/50 hybrid camera has no equal in Canon's lineup except possibly the R6II. I combined the R7 with the Meike RF to EF mount vND adapter and now have what I consider as close to perfect as currently possible for a hybrid photo/video event camera. The R7 is definitely not perfect by any means, and I still consider most of my negative findings to still hold true, but thanks to what the R7 does provide I can now shoot entire events and many other types of projects with a single camera. The thumbwheel around the joystick has really grown on me, it is so convenient right under the thumb and with the physical photo/video/power switch which is also right under your thumb, I can power on the camera, take a few images, switch to a few video clips and power it off all within a few seconds without ever taking my hands off the camera; so ergonomically for hybrid work I also consider the R7 superior to the R5 (which has no dedicated video switch). Color wise, it matches up perfectly with the R5 and C70 if all three are set to CLOG3, and from there I just drop it into Davinci Resolve and use managed color.

The nice thing about the Canon EF 24-105mm F4.0 is that on a crop sensor with a speedbooster it turns into an F2.8. Canon released the RF 28-70 F2 and it is massive and $3K so I can't imagine what size or cost a 24-105 would have to be to reach F2.8. Canon really wants to set themselves apart and wants people to buy RF lenses especially now that it is a closed system and they have to know how many people would love a 24-105 F2.8 so I would imagine if there was any possible way they could have made it work within typical budget and size constraints they would have. The R7's 18-150 kit lens is actually an incredibly useful range, if I was doing the tourist thing on a trip I wouldn't hesitate to bring that one lens. It is only useful during the daylight though and I hate variable aperture lenses so I don't use it for any professional work. I also notice an optical degradation in quality when compared to L glass especially at the long end. The Sigma 18-35 F1.8 is pretty useful as well when you need lowlight and zoom capabilities. That is one long and heavy lens though, but its my favorite lowlight non run/gun lens, it is also difficult to balance on a gimbal because it is so front heavy but it does work with my R7 on a Ronin RS2. I keep thinking about using it more for lowlight events, but it is incredibly loud when focusing and I never know when I need the shotgun mic so I don't trust it when audio is needed.

I wish Canon had something comparable to the Tamron even though that's a big heavy lens; I like everything about the 24-105mm especially on a crop sensor except the fact that the lens barrel falls down when the camera is hanging by my side, and the zoom ring is not smooth so very difficult to zoom while recording. The RF version added a lock button but I am not paying $1299 to fix those two minor things not to mention I would lose my RF vND adapter setup. For my typical event work I only need one body now thanks to the R7 so I am down to one body and two lenses; 24-105 F4 for daytime work and 50mm F1.4 for lowlight / night. The F1.4 at 1600ISO combined with an F7 Falcon Eyes panel is enough to light individuals and small groups of 3-6 people at night.

Absolutely, golden hour is also where modern camera's 10bit really shines, letting you push the mids to proper exposure without a fill light and without the skin tones falling apart. My biggest problem with golden hour is that it does not last very long, I shoot a lot of swimsuit fashion and modeling shoots during the summers and if it is for a designer vs an individual model I can't use the golden hour because there's not enough time to film all of the models before the sun sets. That's a given, less edge distortion, more background compression. That is why my favorite event lens is the 24-105 F4.0....wide enough at 24mm for groups and long enough at 105mm for good background compression when shooting individuals or punching in for detail shots even at F4.0. On the R7 with its crop sensor that's around 35mm-165mm which is perfect for both photography and video. My favorite portrait photography lens is the 70-200 F2.8 and I typically shoot at 200mm whenever possible to get that perfect background compression and tack sharp image for studio and on location photography work.

I think AF depends on what you are shooting. My run and gun projects are mostly events, fast paced, only a few seconds to get photos and videos per shot, fiddling with MF can be quite limiting in those scenarios. I do still use MF quite a bit, but I would rather have great AF to choose from when needed than to be forced to always use MF. Even the best AF systems can be completely unpredictable especially with eye tracking and subject detection, so when I use AF I keep it simple and stick with the cross hairs only. I agree with you on APS-C, I don't need razor thin DOF and I mostly only shoot wide open when shooting in low light where every stop helps. To me, APS-C sensors are great because their IQ is just as good as FF but overheating seems better controlled with them and they tend to have better battery life.

@SRV1981 I think we are all saying pretty much the same thing; stop worrying about the tech (technology) and focus on the tech (technique). Feature length films are being shot on GoPros and music videos are being shot on iPhones. I stopped worrying about sensor size, camera vendors, and camera technology in general a long time ago. I have the same set of Canon EF lenses that I bought almost 10yrs ago. I would be perfectly comfortable shooting nearly anything with any camera I own. The story you are trying to tell, the subject matter, the camera movement, etc is all way more important than the gear. Yes I enjoy discussing gear on here, and yes I am very picky with what gear I ultimately en up buying but mainly because I need it to last a long time, cover a wide variety of project types, and deliver the quality that my clients expect. But I don't pixel peep, I don't need the absolute latest and greatest, I don't change my gear every few years, and I don't stress over the small stuff like a missing half stop of dynamic range or FF vs crop sensor, etc. The videography and photography fields are vast, and there's way more important things to learn like proper lighting, color grading, audio, etc. that are far more important than what gear you use. If anything, the number 1 thing to focus on is getting and keeping clients. As far as lighting goes I am with @FHDcrew, nothing beats natural light for most projects. Some projects of course are made for artificial lighting such as music videos but not because the lighting is needed; more so because the lighting is needed to add a certain mood to the video. I have shot many a fashion show and other event where the lighting is terrible; my favorite is events that start right around sunset and continue into the night. For those types of projects I use a simple camera mounted Falcon Eyes F7 video light, adjust my photo and video settings accordingly and shoot with my fastest lens (F1.4 FF).

I'm thinking spontaneous internal combustion right at the 45min mark.

First off I want to caveat this with the fact that I am not an IQ purist, I am not constantly in search of that perfect camera to try to replicate Hollywood magic; instead my focus is on nearly everything but IQ. I focus on things like workflow optimization, ease of grading (the C70 wins this category hands down BTW when set to Cinema Raw LT), audio options, shooting features (IBIS, ND filters, etc), battery life, and of course above all DOES IT OVERHEAT (here the C70 wins again). IMO any modern camera above the PS bodies produces fantastic quality; the story you are trying to tell, the lenses used, and the lighting all affect quality far more than the camera body. With that said, no, I don't think the IQ is distinguishable between the R5, R7, and C70 on YT for 95% of what I shoot. I keep the C70 in CLOG3 to match the other two to make the color grade easier. Now there is the remaining 5%; when a scene is a high DR scene, has strong highlight rolloff, or is perfectly lit and when the C70 is in CLOG2 then and only then does the C70 display enough of a quality difference to possibly be noticeable even on YT. I think the same can be said for most camera ecosystems (BM, Sony, Panasonic, etc.). I also briefly mentioned lenses earlier; I do think all of the cameras listed above would produce noticeable IQ improvements with "cinema" lenses; but my typical project is nowhere near the budget required to use lenses like those. The vendor's camera campaign videos produce the quality you see using the same bodies you and I purchase; but with $60K - $100K worth of rigging and a full support team. Those videos are nice to see the art of the possible (and they are hosted on YT), but achieving that look is unrealistic for most of us. I still like watching them though because they prove my point that the story, lighting, and rigging affect the quality far more than the camera body.

I have gotten to where I shoot almost exclusively with the R7 for events and hybrid photo/video work. For talking heads, long form content, concerts, etc. where the camera can be locked down and audio is more important then I use the C70. For commercial shoots and things like music videos I typically combine the C70 with the R7 as the b-cam. For audio when running and gunning I typically use just a shotgun mic, the Canon EF 24-105mm F4.0 lens and get pretty close to the subject to try to reduce background noise. When I am working with an onscreen personality doing impromptu interviews at events then I use a Sennheiser handheld mic and G4 receiver. For talking head work I use a Sennheiser G4 transmitter and receiver combined with a mini-XLR shotgun mic into the C70. Some of it is depending on budget as well. If the budget is pretty low I will just use the R7 simply because I don't see the point in bringing the C70 to a lower budget shoot unless it will drastically improve my workflow. If the budget is high enough then I will use the C70 even for shots that I would typically shoot with the R7 (i.e. I will rig up the C70 on a gimbal if the budget is high enough, and forgo the R7's IBIS for the C70's improved DR/IQ when shooting handheld). At the end of the day I definitely make my camera selections based on the project type. If the project is 90% photography and 10% video then I will probably use the R5. If its 50/50 photography/video then I will use the R7, if I need two cameras then I will pair the R7 with the C70, if its 100% video then the budget and audio requirements will make me choose the C70 or R7, etc. etc. The great thing about the R7, R5, and C70 is that none of them need much rigging to work and all of them will produce great quality with or without rigging/lighting. I know BM cameras tend to need more rigging/lighting to get the best results which is why with my setup I can use any camera for anything from run and gun to studio work.

I will be very happy if they fix the bugs in the current FW: Freezing - Mine still freezes occasionally and needs a reboot even with the latest FW EVF - At high shutter speeds (higher than 1/4000s) the EVF becomes very stuttery at times and almost unusable CFE Corruption - Not sure yet if this was the camera, card reader, or card, but this weekend for the first time ever I had an unreadable memory card after a day of shooting. Fortunately, my SD card had a copy of all of the footage, but not exactly confidence inspiring New Features that would be nice to have: Keep the &^%$ electronic level and other tools on the screen after pressing record WFM - Not holding my breath but a WFM would be nice when shooting video vs the histogram Shutter Angle - Another nice to have Face Only AF - This would be great to match with the C70 False Color - I actually almost never use this since I mostly shoot run and gun and don't have time for such niceties, but in a more controlled setting false color is nice Remove the 30min record limit...this is a given Detailed overheat indicator - this is great on the R7 it would be nice to get more feedback on when it starts warming up. With more feedback you would have time to change modes to something less heat intensive Unlimited flash sync speed - Its annoying to still have flash sync speed limitations in 2023 necessitating the use of ND filters, HSS, or both. Not sure though if this is a HW limitation or something that can be added via FW. Horizon Leveling - The R7 has this, I turned it off because it causes problems on a gimbal, but it is still nice to have when shooting handheld especially since the **&^ level guide disappears while recording

Two card slots just saved my project today. I shot for 3hrs in the scorching FL heat at a project site that was a 1.5hr roundtrip drive to create footage with a new client after weeks of coordination and schedule planning; and captured photography images that would be very difficult if not impossible to recreate since we were working with animals; and when I got home the SanDisk Extreme CFExpress card in the R5 stated it had no useable file system and not a single image had been recorded to it. I had formatted the card before the shoot, the R5 gave absolutely no indication that one of the cards wasn't working, and yet nothing was written to the CFExpress card (or it got corrupted somehow after the shoot on the way home); that would have been a total loss of 1600 images, a refund of the client's money, and definitely a lost future client if I had only had a single card slot. I am already working with the client to shoot a few different promo videos and more photoshoots with them in the future so this would have been a pretty major loss. In my close to 20yrs of shooting I've never had this happen. At the moment I don't know what to think; is there a bug in the R5 where it corrupted the file system for the CFE card, or did the CFE card have a problem and the R5 saved the day by continuing to operate flawlessly with the SD card. Regardless of which scenario happened, I now know the R5 won't tell you when one card is not working, it will also keep working with the second card, and I also know I was right to never buy an A camera (other than drones) with a single card slot.

It is tough, very tough, even now most of my well paying clients are repeat clients; I do a ton of one hit wonders like headshots, photo studio work, etc. but repeat business and word of mouth is the real secret. Of course that is the photography side of things. For video many of my customers started with photography and eventually needed video then kept coming back to me for both. My particular video niche is big events (boat races, car shows, food festivals, fashion shows, etc). That niche in turn spawns tons of side projects (photo shoots, promo videos, talking heads, training videos, etc. etc). So if I were starting over right now today I would just Google events in my area and start going to them and filming them for free. I have a branded shirt with my business name on it, I also have business cards, and I would wear my shirt and pass my cards out literally everywhere. I would shoot entire highlight reels of the events, really focus on handing out my business cards to the vendors and try to figure out who the organizers were. If I could work my way up to the organizers and main sponsors I would offer to tag them on IG and FB when the video and photos were out and give them my business cards which would ensure they saw my work. I would give it less than 3 months of that before I started having sponsors, organizers, and event attendees reaching out to me for photos and video. Within about 6 months in a reasonably large city I would have my whole network built back up. I keep stressing photography because in my niche it is so important. So many people contact me for photography and they never even considered video until I recommend it. One thing leads to another and next thing you know I've been working with that client for years. Events are also great because they are recurring year after year so that is repeat business if you work for the main sponsor or the event organizers. Almost all of my business comes from these events, people at these events are getting married (they need wedding videos), they are having kids (birthday party videos / gender reveals, etc.), they run their own business (business promo videos, product demos, etc needed), etc. etc., I shoot a ton of small stuff thanks to these events. To this day if I haven't handed out 500 cards at an event that I am filming then I am not doing it right. I never let up on the networking because events, sponsors, and attendees come and go each year so relying too heavily on any one of them for revenue the next year is a recipe for failure if they don't host or sponsor that event the next year. Of course my approach only works in a large city or somewhere where you can easily drive to a large city. Where I live I could literally shoot nearly any type of event I wanted on any given weekend (sports, food festivals, music festivals, races, fashion shows, etc.). I once shot a live concert for a customer that needed a city activities promo video and ended up shooting a music video for the band because I gave them my card after the concert. I have also had plenty of offers to work directly for the sponsors on their media team but I like being freelance, after working literally everything for the past 10yrs I am not interested in joining a team; but if that is your thing that could be the way into a more predictable career field.

CAF doesn't work with the MC21 and EF lenses for the S5. I have heard that somehow it works for the S5II, probably because they mostly ditched DFD. Actually yes it is, with useable CAF I would have had a far higher keeper rate which is why I am now back on the Canon train. I have heard it all, who needs AF, real shooters use MF, Hollywood cinema cameras all use MF etc....but none of that matters to me when I am shooting an event and flying a camera on a gimbal that has no AF or shooting handheld at an event or for a project. If I had a support team and a dedicated focus puller and all of the Hollywood bells and whistles I wouldn't care about AF either; in fact I still use MF quite often even with Canon bodies for many situations such as talking heads, rack focusing, shooting through obstructions such as grass or fences where the AF will pick the wrong subject, when it is too dark, etc; I have no problems manually focusing when the situation calls for it; but having to manually focus for every shot will absolutely yield more throw aways than with a camera with useable CAF unless you have a dedicated focus puller, or something else contributing to your success (wider lens, simpler scenes, more time to prepare, etc.) It is easy to cherry pick specific instances where MF looks fine, and when you have the time to properly block a scene and dial in the focus or repeat a scene then that's all good and well, especially if you are shooting as a hobbyist where no one cares about the footage you didn't get; in fact I have plenty of tack sharp footage in many projects that were shot with MF, but try MF shooting even one of my events and you will encounter a much different story. My typical event has a shotlist that is multiple pages (vendors, VIPs, activities, talking heads, etc.), I am shooting photos and video, going from indoors to outdoors and back, working with the audience or attendees who will only stand still for a few seconds for a picture, and maybe a few seconds more for a quick video clip, and all the while everyone and nearly everything is in motion, and that is all handheld, I haven't even started talking about shooting on a gimbal yet; and yes I did it for years with the GH5 and S5; but at the end of the day it was completely exhausting and limiting to always have to work within the limitations of MF, to never know if a shot was sharp until reviewing it later, etc. So yes, it is my opinion that in 2023 if your keeper rate is low due to lack of useable CAF then it is absolutely the camera's fault. MF is great and even necessary for many scenarios, but when shooting as a OMB so is AF. Both have strengths and weaknesses and there is nothing wrong with having the option to use AF when that particular shot can be better served by AF allowing you to focus on other things (no pun intended).

That is very unfortunate, sometimes I take for granted how easy it is to walk into a retailer to buy the camera I want or how easy it is to order from an authorized retailer.

That's a good point with the MF switch, I just haven't gotten used to it, when I need to switch back and fourth I usually hold the camera differently and keep the left hand on the lens barrel vs on the side handle, plus I need it there anyway once the lens is in MF because I need to use the focus ring on the lens to keep focus from that point forward. The R8 actually has nothing I want, I don't need a FF sensor for anything that I do and the R6II has nothing that I need. My camera purchases are done hopefully for at least the next 3-5yrs. I have a dedicated photography camera (R5), dedicated hybrid camera (R7), a dedicated video camera (C70), a dedicated time lapse camera (Canon Rebel), and a dedicated action camera/underwater camera (GoPro), between those five there is no project I can't shoot that comes my way and if I need more for a specific project then I will just rent what I need. I wouldn't mind upgrading my timelapse camera to a body that uses the same batteries as the R5 and R7 but the Rebel is so good at what it does (3000 pictures when the battery grip is installed) that I have never needed to swap batteries on a shoot; plus I don't want a more expensive camera that is usually unattended for hours at a time so its a small loss if it gets stolen. Of course production companies and TV stations are not using the cameras we discuss here, they have completely different requirements, teams of people and gear to properly rig and support their cameras, and the budgets to match. My niche is event work and all of the little projects that don't have the budgets for that sort of thing and fortunately there's tons of options these days that makes my job a lot easier.

I don't think its nitpicking at all, you asked why I said I don't like the ergonomics of the R8 and I told you why, I could say the same thing about the FF sensor and RS concerns but I understand that what is important to some people isn't important to others and vice versa. The R7 is the first body I have ever owned that I trust enough to shoot full events and projects that need both photos and video, that's saying a lot for someone who used to haul around 2 bodies at all times; so yes to me ergonomics is very important when trying to keep people's attention at events long enough to get a few pictures and add a video clip to it; something I was never able to do before. I do agree with you that the R5's lack of a dedicated video button is very annoying as well, but I don't use the R5 as a hybrid camera, its 95% photos only so it doesn't matter as much to me. And yes, the R7 with the wheel around the joystick is the odd one out, but its a great design that makes up for the fact that it does not have the lower wheel IMO and I wish every other Canon camera had it as well; these days it seems like Canon has a new button layout for every body which doesn't make sense to me. Yes, I always have all of my cameras set to dual slot recording for photos and video. The R5 also has two different cards and it is quite annoying to me. I understand the R5 can shoot 8K and needs the faster CFexpress card but I would rather no 8K and dual SD cards than to have to have oddball CFexpress cards. I like to keep everything interchangeable with everything else and I really like that I can use the same SD cards in the R5, R7, and C70. One benefit of the CFexpress card though is that it offloads to my desktop about 3-5x faster than the SD cards so that's really all I use it for. 🤣 I think its awesome, that's why there's something for everyone. It took me one event to get used to it, now its second nature for me, especially when going from outdoors to indoors or vice versa I start scrolling it before even bringing it back up to shooting position. I do wish it also had the lower wheel because it is annoying to have to press the ISO button first, but after pressing it I use the wheel again to adjust it. I never use the focus button since all of my EF lenses have a MF/AF switch and I am more used to using that but since not all RF lenses have that switch it would be useful for people with RF lenses.

No I didn't just go by what Andrew said, I looked at it for myself, and the R8 is missing the back wheel around the joystick which I use on literally every single shoot, they moved the photo/video switch to the left side which means I would need to let go of my side handle to flip the switch vs the R7 which is on the right side and right under my thumb allowing me to instantly switch from photos to quick video clips during events, and last but not least it is even smaller and lighter than the R7. When shooting video handheld I like big heavy cameras, the bigger and heavier the better for stability especially since Canon has IBIS wobble problems with wider lenses. The R7 with a cage and side/top handles is the perfect size for me, big enough to easily rig heavier but small enough to quickly strip down to a gimbal camera. I never use the touch screen to focus, that would mean I would need to take one hand off of the camera and touch the screen. I stick to center cross hairs and keep both hands on the camera. The R5, R7, and C70 all have a back wheel which I use to quickly adjust the aperture or shutter speed without letting go of the camera. Only my Canon Rebel doesn't have a back wheel and for that camera I don't care since it is just a timelapse camera. So yes, I did reach my own conclusions that the R8 is not as ergonomically friendly to my specific shooting style as the R5 or R7 and is closer in ergonomics to my Canon Rebel. I will never get a camera with a single card slot when dual card slots are available on so many cameras. Many more things can happen to footage vs just the card going bad or the camera stopping the recording. I shoot event work and most of my customers re-hire me year after year, all it would take is one year of lost footage for them to hire someone else leading to much more lost revenue than the cost of getting dual slots. Computers can get infected with viruses that wipe out your footage, if you are transferring the raw footage onsite with the client their computer could be infected, or their card reader could fry your card, etc. etc. None of this has happened to me but I have had a few clips disappear in the middle of a project (possibly accidentally deleted or overwritten) and I have used the second card to get it back. With equipment being so good these days sometimes the only thing separating the professional from the beginner is the level of preparation for when things go wrong. When I need multiple cameras for a project I pair the R7 with the R5 or C70, if I had to buy an additional camera body tomorrow then I would just buy another R7. If your budget is $3K and you need two camera bodies then I would recommend two R7s, that way they can share batteries and accessories, menus and ergonomics are identical, etc. I just really don't see what the big deal is about shooting FF or non-line skipped 4K60FPS. RS doesn't bother me since I don't shoot fast action. As I mention in many of my posts, these are just my opinions, my workflow, and what works for me, in today's times, there's something for everyone.

I felt the same way after the R5 ridiculous BS, but I had to set my personal feelings aside and buy what was best for my business. I came very close to going all in on Panasonic for photography and video but I couldn't bring myself to buy into the L mount "alliance" or go all in on a system with such terrible AF. With Panasonic out of the picture and my large collection of EF mount lenses, when the C70 came out and the R7 came out they were simply what was most economical and what worked best for my business. Canon sensors really aren't known for their DR, even the C70 with its famous DGO sensor is just ok IMO, not the revolutionary breakthrough that the marketing materials would lead you to believe. But with all modern cameras being so good, just ok is good enough for me when combined with its other features. I feel the same way about the R7, and R6II, their IQ is good enough for anything I need and the story you are trying to tell with them is far more important than specs on paper. The R8 on the other hand IMO has a lot of real world compromises (battery size, ergonomics, single card slot, etc.) that I feel are more important than IQ to keep it at its current price point with a FF sensor. YT and other social media platforms do far more damage to my IQ than any crop sensor or line skipped footage ever will. Today right now I feel that Sony and Canon have the most complete ecosystems, since I already have an investment in Canon EF glass, it is a natural choice for me to stick with Canon's ecosystem.

At the end of the day you are right...tons of economical options; but this is an R8 thread so it is still interesting to see different people's perspectives on Canon's latest release. My final verdict is that its an ok camera at its price point, but not the best fit for my needs even at its price point since the R7 is at the same price point. For me specifically, the FF sensor comes with too many compromises and those compromises are more important to me than the sensor size. If I absolutely had to purchase a FF body today right now I would get the R6II; if price was more important to me then I would get the S5II, there is just no scenario for me where I would get the R8. Most if not all of the used options on your list don't have useable AF which is far more important to me than sensor size. In a year when you can get the R6II, R8, and the S5II at a decent used price then used will look at lot more attractive.

It is kind of funny to me considering the C70, C100, C200, C300, most of the BMP cameras, the GH5, GH6, etc. etc. all have 2 things in common; they are not full frame and they are lower resolution than the R7 yet when those sensors are wrapped in a cinema body people are willing to pay up to $16K for them. I used to think FF was the holy grail as well, until I shot with the GH5 for many years, now I care more about the rest of the ecosystem and body's features vs the sensor size. If anything, the smaller sensors are really proving their worth since they are easier to cool, better on battery life, and easier to stabilize with IBIS. Now with all of that said, I do think its impressive what you get for $1500.00, all I am saying is that I don't think its the best value today right now at that price point thanks to the R7. Even one year ago I'd probably have a different opinion. Andrew is in the UK, so it is actually over $2000USD for his country with the current exchange rates. I am not sure if the listed prices in the UK include VAT, if they do not then its actually $2400USD with 20% VAT added. So yes, it actually is "near $2000" if not over $2000USD in some parts of the world.