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osmanovic

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  1. Thanks
    osmanovic reacted to PannySVHS in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    Above must be my favorite post of the year @kye Super effective in showing colour response and metric and relation of pleasing palette and response to exposure in comparison to "objective" colours such as of GH5. Thanks a lot!
  2. Thanks
    osmanovic reacted to kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    Thanks to @TomTheDP for finding this comparison between the Original BMPCC and Alexa, and thanks to Alain Bourassa for performing the test!  As @Matt Kieley says, the BMPCC and BMMCC have the same sensor, so it's a proxy for the BMMCC as well.
    Not a bad match, considering that this appears to have no adjustments, and shots have different White Balances:

    The WB comparison:

    Latitude tests:








    What I see from this comparison is:
    Obviously the Alexa has more latitude, no surprises there Both comparisons vary quite a bit in tone and levels between the shots
    (this is an indication to me that the shots were taken quickly and the results not processed too much, so I think is a good indicator of what things are like when used for real rather than in meticulous lab environments) The BMPCC fails at +4 and the Alexa doesn't, but both look reasonable at -3, so the highlights are where the Alexas increased DR is revealed The BMPCC looks very usable across the whole range and this reflects my impressions of shooting with it  Vectorscope comparisons, with colours extended 2X in the scope for ease of viewing..  
    BMPCC Primaries:

    Alexa Primaries:

    BMPCC chart:

    Alexa chart:

    For reference, this is a colour chart I shot with my GH5.  The absolute level of saturation can't be compared as I can't remember what I did in post, but check out how different the overall shape is, which is much closer to 'correct':

    I suggest this is a very good result, especially considering how old and how cheap this camera is, even after the price has risen since COVID lockdown and nostalgia shopping.
  3. Like
    osmanovic reacted to kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    300EU is a steal.  Had you done the background research, you wouldn't have waited one minute, let alone one day.
    It may seem like that's a lot for an older camera, but you're buying the image.  Used Alexas are still $10K because you're buying the image, so spending 3% of that on a camera that can be perfectly intercut with an Alexa.
    The P4K is a great camera, but it's not the same as the OG BMPCC / BMMCC.  When you grade the OG BMPCC / BMMCC for two minutes you get something that looks like film, when you grade the P4K for two minutes you get something that looks like the Sony a7s3.  
    It is possible to grade the P4K to match the OG BMPCC / BMMCC, but if you have that level of skill then you may as well buy almost any camera and grade it to look like whatever you want, because both tasks are about the same level of difficulty.
  4. Like
    osmanovic reacted to kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    I have it and for my shooting in uncontrolled situations with varying WB I couldn't get good results out of the LUT at all unfortunately.  Maybe in controlled shooting it would be different, but it was too fragile to work in the situations I work in.
    The BMMCC, however, gets spectacular colour right out of the gate.  It's literally giving me better colour after a 2 minute effort than I could get from my GH5 with hours of effort, regardless of the colour profile and use of LUTs, CSTs, of manual grading.
    I believe people think about cameras in the wrong way.  The conversation is about "how good is this camera" or "how good is the image from this camera", and the answer to that is almost always "as good as the operator".  But some cameras are really easy to get great results from, and others are almost impossible to work with and only the best operators in the world can get great results from them.
    The question should be "how good is the image from this camera when used by an above average user under normal circumstances and with a moderate amount of effort in post?".  In this instance, the OG BMPCC / BMMCC have to be some of the best cameras ever made.
  5. Like
    osmanovic reacted to kye in After all those years still no camera can come close to Alexa's DR   
    One thing that struck me from the tests was how neutral the over and under exposures are.  That's absolutely not the case on most other cameras, and I speak from experience here because I have routinely exposed things poorly in the past and then suffered in post when things didn't behave how I anticipated/hoped they would!
    Once again, the cameras that most remind me of this trait is the original BMPCC and BMMCC, which use very little highlight rolloff, so the way you use them is to ETTR and pull things down in post, and they look very similar (I did tests), at least when overexposing things anyway, if things are underexposed then the results aren't so good.
    It might even be that the usability of the DR of the Alexa is more useful than the sheer amount of it.
  6. Like
    osmanovic got a reaction from IronFilm in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    The SD cards slow down over time or it comes dropped frames. The solution was to first do an LLF (LowLevelFormat) on the card and then format it in the camera. Try it. 
    Sometimes it was enough just to reformat the SD card in the camera again.

    We purchased angelbird SD cards some time ago. But these are very expensive. Then a colleague told us that the Canvas Select Plus (white green sticker) works just as well. We tested at 30fps raw (for an hour) and there were no drpped frames. 
    If we had another alternative to og-bmpcc, we would certainly not buy rawlite, but another camera. But we chose it because og-bmpcc is still a great camera. 🙂 
  7. Like
    osmanovic reacted to kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    Thanks, I've asked this question previously but hadn't gotten a definitive answer.
    A couple of things that are interesting from that spec sheet are:
    It can do 100fps It can do 100fps with rolling shutter and 50fps with a global shutter I wasn't aware that either the BMMCC or OG BMPCC have either 100fps or a global shutter enabled - does this mean that the sensor from all those years ago is only semi-utilised?  Wow.
    Seriously Blackmagic - do an update on these cameras!!
    I see minimalism has found another follower...
  8. Like
    osmanovic got a reaction from kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    The SD cards slow down over time or it comes dropped frames. The solution was to first do an LLF (LowLevelFormat) on the card and then format it in the camera. Try it. 
    Sometimes it was enough just to reformat the SD card in the camera again.

    We purchased angelbird SD cards some time ago. But these are very expensive. Then a colleague told us that the Canvas Select Plus (white green sticker) works just as well. We tested at 30fps raw (for an hour) and there were no drpped frames. 
    If we had another alternative to og-bmpcc, we would certainly not buy rawlite, but another camera. But we chose it because og-bmpcc is still a great camera. 🙂 
  9. Thanks
    osmanovic got a reaction from kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    https://manualzz.com/doc/29120478/insert-month---fairchild-imaging
    An interesting report about Fairchild Dual Gain, you can find here:
    https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/5985-modern-sensors-produce-amazing-images-how-do-they-do-it
  10. Like
    osmanovic got a reaction from kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    There are a lot of people who think that the pocket or micro with the small super16 means retro look. But that is not true. What makes the old blackmagic cameras special is the sensor. The sensor is equipped with large photosite and a dual-gain architecture (the same as ALEV sensor).The development of such sensors took place at that time for arri. The goal at that time was to keep the analog Arri look, with the digtal sensor. And the fairchild sensor is the same, only in small (pocket and micro, super16), large photosite with 6.5microns, dual gain and strangely the image is also very close to the arri.
  11. Like
    osmanovic reacted to kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    Wonderful!
    I think there's a few interesting points here.  
    Firstly, I disagree when you say the OG isn't more gorgeous than the 4K.
    There's a view that because they all shoot RAW that they're the same because you can make RAW look like anything, but that's simply not true.  For example, even in colourist circles the ability for Steve Yedlin to emulate film is often viewed as practically impossible, and Steve even says in his blog that it's not possible with the limited tools available (referring to Resolve and Baselight) and he had to write his own custom software to do it.
    But setting aside professional colourists for a second and getting to the people who would realistically buy a BM pocket cinema camera (P2K, P4K, P6K, or P6KP), these people aren't likely to be able to grade the P4K to look like the P2K, or vice versa (and let's be honest - a great proportion of them only go as far as applying a LUT).  So while in theory the P2K isn't more gorgeous than the P4K, it is in practice when the average user has next to no ability to colour grade.
    Moving into the comments about resolution and sharpness, I think this is something that relates to marketing and to ability to colour grade as well.
    It relates to marketing in a couple of ways.  
    Firstly, people often pick up the P2K for a retro look, because they're been brainwashed by TV companies to think that more resolution is more modern, when in reality most cinemas still project in 2K.  In addition to this they often pair the P2K with vintage lenses, which of course give a vintage look, which lacks sharpness.  However, in fact the P2K and BMMCC can just as easily be paired with modern cinema glass, and is by people who aren't after a vintage look.
    Secondly, as people watch more and more content from YouTube rather than content shot on Alexas and graded by professional colourists, people get used to a sharper look as the default look.  Once again, this is marketing because the default look is over sharpened because the TV manufacturer who made your camera is baking that look into the camera in order to manipulate you into wanting a HD FHD 4K 8K TV.
    Sharpness also comes down to colour grading, and this is something that I am experimenting with at the moment.  The P2K and BMMCC are very soft straight out of camera, which is fine if you know what you're doing, but alas, these files aren't being graded by professional colourists, they're being graded by people who don't even understand how LUTs work.  On top of this, sharpening is a whole art form but is almost never discussed and there are basically no tutorials.  Why?  Because your TV manufacturer camera oversharpens rather than under sharpens, and instead of learning to sharpen in post you learned to use vintage lenses and diffusion filters to get a sensible level of sharpness.
  12. Like
    osmanovic got a reaction from kye in Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters   
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WF1C7Kagjs
  13. Like
    osmanovic reacted to kye in Are Sony sensors ruining video with the 'Sony look'?   
    I understand what you're saying, but would suggest that they are only simple to deal with in post because they've had the most work put into them to achieve the in-camera profiles.  
    It is widely known that the ARRI CEO Glenn Kennel was an expert on film colour before he joined ARRI to help develop the Alexa.  Film was in development for decades with spectacular investment into its colour science prior to that, so to base the Alexa colour science on film was to stand on the shoulders of giants.
    Glenns book is highly recommended and I learned more about the colour science of film from one chapter in it than from reading everything on the topic I could find online for years prior:

    Also, Apple have put an enormous effort into the colour science of the iPhone, which has now been the most popular camera on earth for quite some time, according to Flickr stats anyway.
    I have gone on several trips where I was shooting with the XC10 or GH5 and my wife was taking still images with her iPhone, and so I have dozens of instances where my wife and I were standing side-by-side at a vantage point and shooting the exact same scene at the exact same time.  Later on in post I tried replicating the colour from her iPhone shots with my footage and only then realised what a spectacular job that Apple have done with their colour science - the images are heavily processed with lots and lots of stuff going on in there.
    and now that I have a BMMCC and my OG BMPCC is on its way, I will add that the footage from these cameras also grades absolutely beautifully straight-out-of-camera - they too (as well as Fairchild who made the sensor) did a great job on the colour science.  The P4K/P6K footage is radically different and doesn't share the same look at all.
  14. Like
    osmanovic reacted to anonim in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
    Wonderful movie shot on BMPCC and Voigtlander Noktons, presented in Cannes 2019.
    https://variety.com/2019/film/reviews/lillian-review-1203227609/
    https://www.screendaily.com/reviews/lillian-cannes-review/5139633.article
  15. Like
  16. Thanks
    osmanovic reacted to tonysss in Giving the BMPCC4K the same look as the BMPCC and BMMCC   
    No, the look is different, the new pocket 4k is worse...
    today's test: 
    BMMCC - best colors and overall look , a little noisy picture, but the noise is pleasant. Moire problem. But overall he is the winner! (Slowmo 60p) 
    at ISO 400 is slightly cleaner in the shadows. (Native is 800) . It is not a modern clear picture, but as a best film emulation.
    BMPCC (orig) - same as BMMCC but only 30p (a little more noise and moire than BMMCC)
    BMPCC4K - worse colors and overall picture is shifted to yellow-red?  sharp highlights rolloff ? the picture is far more difficult to correct and color than the old pocket ?
    the picture is cleaner , but it gets a "video look" ,  The shape of the body is terrible.  I gave a second chance and really didn't ... I put it back.
    GH5 - The best tool for run & shot - Worse colors than BMPCC4K but not much, excelent IBIS ! , battery life, adjustable display and viewfinder. Very economical codec for all day shooting. It's a winner if you need quick and comfortable shooting.  It is a modern clear picture. Winner for RUN & GUN Shooting
     
    So everything stays the same, I keep GH5 for modern picture style, BMMCC for film emulation project. 
    BMPCC4K - not necessary ?
     
  17. Like
    osmanovic reacted to tonysss in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
    Orig. Pocket with orig.Nikon battery = 50min-60min. If i imagine BMPCC4K with NP970, i'm glad i have a real POCKET!  ? with 2x stabilized lens and mic, and still in the palm of your hand... 

     
  18. Like
    osmanovic reacted to tonysss in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
  19. Like
    osmanovic reacted to tonysss in Lenses - Sticky Topic   
    I'm still surprised by my sigma 18-35, it's the most versatile of all ? close up or wide view.. no problem
    (BMMCC)
     




  20. Like
    osmanovic reacted to deezid in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
    me neither, not even Braw nor ProRes
  21. Like
    osmanovic reacted to drm in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
    I saw that video when it first came out. That is the video that I was talking about in my post.
    I have three P4Ks and have tested all of them. Mine don't lose footage when they lose power. I wonder if his camera was defective or if that was an early firmware issue. All I can say is none of my three P4Ks behave that way. 
  22. Like
    osmanovic got a reaction from drm in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
  23. Like
    osmanovic reacted to webrunner5 in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
    That is the problem with the Micro to me over the BMPCC, you might as well have a Canon C300. I, at my age, can't hardly shoot with a Smartphone, let alone a Camera Rig. The world has changed big time. Nobody trusts anyone anymore. When i was young Everyone trusted everyone. Complete opposite then. You young people are screwed big time.
  24. Like
    osmanovic reacted to Emanuel in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
    Exactly.
    No possible to live without them, isn't it? ; )
     
    So, why to go lower and exclude the upper?
    Why to ignore the most crucial clientele basis interest only to unilaterally impose some self-centered business aim or/and corporate agenda?
    Why to not comply the full specs, prior-advertised, launched and released as well PURCHASED CinemaDNG camera, as due?
    Why to not let people to keep the chance for choice and use whatever they/we want?
    Why to keep and extend such cut-off with the new display firmware now, practically towards a P4K Mark *Minus* II?
    Why such lack of respect with the customers who pay the existence of the brand, after all?
    Why telling us lies like we are all naive consumers with a prosumer toy in hands?
    Why to tell advantage in a pathetic show off presenting the whole thing as the most important invention since Steven Sasson when it's not consensual if we can all call it raw?
     
    More questions we could address here... nuff said for now though.
    Pictures still worth a thousand words. They speak by themselves. Useless the usual childish denial. It simply doesn't work out.
     
    E : -)
  25. Like
    osmanovic reacted to webrunner5 in Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K   
    Very well stated.  I think we just have to admit that the original and the PK4 are 2 different cameras output wise, both in a good way, and that neither one is going to look like the other one no matter what we do. And that is a good thing. We all have a choice. And the older ones are not that much money so, if you are lucky, you can have both. To me All the BMD cameras are a gift from heaven for what they cost. So we ought to be happy which ever route we go. But yeah, dropping  cDNG option on the new ones is a bummer.
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