eatstoomuchjam

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

I did look into the backbone at the time, however the crop put me off as i remember it being like a 5 times crop ( i could be wrong about that) rather than the  2.7 crop from the mission1 compared to a crop of 2x from a normal mft mount.

That depends on which back-bone modded camera you get.  Their modded Sony RX0 has a 1" sensor, passive MFT mount, and the exact same crop factor as the Mission 1 (if I remember right).   My modded Insta360 One RS also has a 1" sensor and a passive MFT mount.  It suffers from lack of any option for wired monitoring - so one either needs to focus on the tiny action camera screen or over wireless which can get laggy at the most inconvenient times.  It's pretty great, though, for setting up to record with fixed focus (I shot the eclipse with it, for example).  The GoPro has at least some option for wired monitoring so that'll be nice.

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

Haven't seen any footage yet, but i suspect a speed booster should work either 0.64 or 0.70 to get you back close to a 2x crop or is my thinking flawed as i'm curious about that ? Of course this is all still theoretical as the mission1 ils is not yet available. 

It's possible, even, that one of the older 0.58x boosters made for the OG BMPCC would work (if you could find one).  My Metabones 0.64x and 0.71x boosters work fine with the Insta360.  Though it's sometimes more fun to use it with a 1.4x or 2x teleconverter.  With a 1.4x, the Canon 100-400 becomes a 140-560 with an equivalent view of about 380-1500mm.  That can be pretty fun in nature.

1 hour ago, maxJ4380 said:

What limitations are you expecting with a 1 inch sensor and passive mount, the lack of auto focus ?

I don't need to anticipate it.  I've lived it and I know the limitations don't bother me too much.

But mainly, the ergonomics of an action camera are poorly-suited to trying to hold the camera and manually focus.  Mission 1 seems to be a little bigger than some others and it has a small protruded grip on the right side which could help a bit.  But otherwise, one ends up with the right hand curved into a weird claw, trying to hold the camera steady while the left hand turns the focus ring.  If the focus ring is stiff, it can look pretty funny.  Mounting a handle to the camera can help and it feels a little more like carrying around an 8mm or 16mm film camera.

Passive MFT mount means that indeed, autofocus won't work.  It also means that aperture won't work on a majority of Panasonic/Olympus lenses - and in some cases, manual focus won't work on them since they're focus-by-wire.  Removing Pany/Oly doesn't leave a ton of lenses that are optimized for M43.  Veydra mini-primes were nice (and still are, can't remember who bought the Veydra brand)...  There are some nice Voigtlanders that are MIcro 4/3 designs.  But a lot of the other third-party makers just take their S35 or FF lenses, jam on a M43 mount, and call it good.

For me, I'm much more interested in it as a platform to mount my C-mount and some D-mount lenses.  Like I have a 13mm f/1.9 Yvar which could be fun - or a positively tiny 15mm f/2.8 Yvar.

But like I said, I think a lot of people are going to find that a 1" sensor with a passive MFT mount sounds like fun, but will balk once they start using it and realizing, for example, that they actually need a monitor to effectively focus it.

9 hours ago, kye said:

Gate Weave increased (and I rebuilt the gate weave engine using the Camera Shake OFX).  I'm not sure I like the aesthetic, so might turn it down for my own projects.

I was going to comment on the gate weave.  For me, it's a little much.

9 hours ago, kye said:

I feel like it's good enough for my (untrained) eye, but if there are any more specific things you can identify then I'd be keen to keep going and see how far we can go.  I'm gradually disabling things in the FLC plugin and manually recreating them myself using other plugins or just manual methods.

If you told me it was shot on 70's-era 16mm, I probably wouldn't second guess you after watching it.  I think that in some shots, the blur/lack of detail might go a little too far - like the shot of all the trees with orange leaves seems a little too blurry to me and looks a little closer to super 8 than to 16mm.

Otherwise, great job!

2 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

Playing devils advocate momentarily and to be honest i have no interest in the other models, a new chip, decent capacity battery it seems, and ability to mount mft lenses and that 1080 at 960fps even at 10 seconds is impressive, i think i would be happy to pay $700 even through its a jump over earlier gopros but it wont be $700 here, I'm expecting $1000-$1300 

It's not just the ILS model that is $700 - it's the Mission 1 Pro as well.  Currently the Hero 13 normally sells for about $430 and they are often on sale for $350.  The Insta360 Ace 2 and DJI Osmo Action 5 are in generally the same price range.  At least for traditional action camera use cases, it's a relatively hard sell to say that Mission 1 Pro is worth almost twice the price.

For the ILS, Back-Bone haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire with sales.  I think that there will be a first wave of adopters who quickly dislike the limitations of a 1" sensor with a passive MFT mount.  I'm excited for it, but not at $700.  Maybe a year or so after it's released, the price will drop.  It's a lot more interesting at the price of the current Hero 13.

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Canon has their 24-240mm too and if you don’t mind mimicking trombone playing while zooming then their old 35-350mm EF is a great bargain.

For years now, the EF 35-350 has been near the top of my "will I or won't I" pile.  So far, still "won't I," but one of these days, i'm gonna get a wild hair to search and find a great deal..

6 hours ago, maxJ4380 said:

yer where you are... 

by the time it gets to here and converted to aussie $ then  add a gst on top and whatever other hidden taxes there are and its not going to be $700 

supposably there's a free trade agreement between you people and us... the reality is i suspect theres nothing free about trade.

I worded my response badly!

I meant that the $700 US price tag was "already there" in terms of 'exorbitant, ridiculous, and "this is just an action camera - WTF"' which Kye had just said in anticipation of the AU pricing.

I should have chosen phrasing that made it more clear that I wasn't simply repeating US pricing that is already known.  😅

Their strategy is similar to the one that I've been taking for a little while now - I used to hard mount more things to the cameras, but now I'm doing more with nato mounts and arri rosettes, but still keeping things compact.  I've also been experimenting a little bit with some of the newer locking quick swap stuff - hawklock from Smallrig and the spider crab stuff from ifootage.  They're both alright.

Their setup is really clean/nice, but if it's shown cabled up at some point, I missed it.  That's the biggest problem I've had (and still haven't solved in a way that I find satisfactory) in moving away from hard mounting my rig/parts.  That one is gonna need an HDMI going from the camera to the monitor as well as the power cable going from the battery to the monitor.  Their short type c cable shouldn't be too intrusive when plugged in, but the rest of the cables can get/feel a bit obnoxious.

The $700 price tag in the US is already there!

As a counterpoint, their marketing seems to be working, given that they are now reporting big delays due to higher-than-expected preorders.

https://nofilmschool.com/panasonic-lumix-l10-delays

Of course, that could also be marketing and/or indicative that they just didn't make many in the first batch to force Fujifilm-esque shortages.

4 hours ago, kye said:

The main point I took from this made complete sense to me.  New cameras need to have new specs, new specs means current sensors and they need more power (both for the sensor and also processing much more data), and therefore there is more heat and larger batteries are required, therefore the chassis just needs to be larger.

This is somewhat true, I suppose, but Sony is still announcing/releasing 4K full frame MILC cameras and people are buying them.  Nothing says Panasonic has to release 6K or 8K in a tiny body.

If Panasonic released a camera in the GM5 body with the sensor from the GH5 or GH5s for $700, I'd be all over it.  In fact, GoPro is releasing an action camera with terrible ergonomics, a smaller sensor, and a 1" mount for $700 and there's all kinds of buzz/excitement around it.  If GoPro can cool an 8K sensor in an action camera body, why not Panasonic in a MILC body with 2x the volume?  How long can the new GoPro bodies record 4K without overheating?  Bet it's "until the battery dies."

48 minutes ago, Aussie Ash said:

Black Magic is already up to Generation 6 color science and each generation is a step better than the last

Not quite.  It's announced, but not available yet, last I checked - unless the latest Resolve 21 beta included it.

Though if there's really something to inclusion of additional near-infrared wavelengths making the subtle difference for skin tones is true and if BMD's ir cut filter removes that wavelength, there would always be at least some difference.

That said, a lot of the way that guy describes things remind me of someone explaining why they think their $4,000 toslink cable is giving richer midtones than someone else's $30 toslink cable.  There seems to be a mix of some genuine understanding of things mixed in with pseudo-scientific bullshit.

Regardless, even if were all 100% true and based in pure science, a decent colorist is a big equalizer for a bunch of differences in the SOOC image.  😅

I'm not sure about how to answer parts of your question, but I would suggest that if you want IBIS, but to be able to fully lock down the sensor when IBIS is off, some of the Nikon cameras do that.

4 hours ago, Clark Nikolai said:

I use it both for my own films as well as I get hired to do music videos and events. I just finished a feature length experimental film shot entirely with it called Shapes, Colours, Patterns. (There's a trailer for it on my Tumblr. https://clarknikolai.tumblr.com ) I'm very happy with it, and of course the image from that camera is gorgeous. Something I've discovered with the Digital Bolex's footage, is that it looks the best projected rather than shown on an LCD screen.

The trailer is gorgeous.  Great job!

He's also harmful in that I've dealt with more than one director who said that we wouldn't be taking the time to light things on set and referenced him.  "We're going to do this more like Malick - natural light only, no lighting."  "Right, but have you seen most of his films?  They don't look very good." "That's the aesthetic I'm going for." "Cool, well I'm out then.  Wish you the best with your film."

(Their shorts, when done, made you long for a Malick film)

It's a good start!

Are you targeting a specific film stock to emulate?  It seems like you're aiming for negative film now since you're talking about wide DR.  Positive film actually has a lot more limited DR, generally speaking.  The color images, while nice, don't really "feel" like any film stocks that I know which seems a little more digital.

The black and white images, for me, feel like something shot on a modern t-grain film (T-Max, in particular).  I think that's a combination of the sharpness of the image, the contrast applied, and the very fine grain.  I probably wouldn't think of it if not paying close attention, though!

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Do vintage lenses even resolve enough for 8K?

This sort of question comes up often in a photo context on GFX forums and the most correct/accepted answer to it is "it doesn't matter."

And any discussion of that sort of thing is going to quickly devolve into arguments about how bayer sensors work (hint: 4K from a bayer sensor isn't 4K of actual information and is actually closer to 1.5K-3.5K, depending on who you ask).

But the short answer is "that depends on the lens, but some do for sure, some do near the center and not at the edges, and some definitely do not."

1 hour ago, Andrew - EOSHD said:

Praise be to the gods... Megadap don't make stuff for L-mount (so far) but maybe they'll surprise all 3 users at once.

As of now, RF mount is the only one they're promising, but who knows after that?  I'll just need to grab one quick before Canon's lawyers get to them.  😅

20 minutes ago, Andrew - EOSHD said:

For manual focus vintage lens users like me, I just can't get away from that damned Techart adapter which autofocuses your Noctilux.

If Megadap's website/YouTube is to be believed, sometime this month or next, their M mount autofocus adapter (M2RF) will be released this month sometime.  🤞

I now think that calling it the L10 was also a mistake.  I watched the Micro Four Nerds video about it earlier anud the camera looked very big in the presenter's hands.  I looked it up the Panasonic L10 on cameradecision and compared it to some other cameras and was outraged by how much bigger it was than the LX100.  Then I noticed something about 10 megapixels and realized that the Panasonic L10 was a 10 megapixel Micro 4/3 camera from 2007.  The Panasonic Lumix L10, on the other hand, is quite small.

Was L10 such a great name that they couldn't change it after somebody pointed out that they already had a camera called the L10 and there would be some confusion from people who looked it up?

There are a bunch of weird 🔨 limitations on the R6 V.  Nowadays, I'd expect a $2,500 video-centric camera to have shutter angle, at least.  I'm not sure if a dedicated timecode port is a reasonable expectation, but in my mind, it should have one.  Those would go al long way to making it a proper B cam to one of the cinema line cameras.

It looks like a solid upgrade if you're in the Sony world and want your stills-first camera to have a bit better video.   67 vs 61 mp is 🥱.  Internal video codecs are industry-trailing (H.265/H.264 only).

The standout feature, for me, is 4K DGO video with only a 15ms readout - but if that were the only spec that I wanted, I wouldn't have sold my C70 (and it could do it in raw).  Wish they would have done an 8K DGO - would gladly take 22-28ms readout speeds for the extra DR on scenes without fast movement.

This seems to me like a camera that's designed to throw a bone to Sony shooters who might otherwise be thinking of jumping ship.  It's fine, but not very exciting.  I think Sony sent some spies over to the Canon headquarters to learn the secrets of the 🔨

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Fixed.

The EIS is an additional crop as far as I can recall.

Ah, I guess that makes sense if it's based on lens coverage.  At least there's OIS in the lens!

20 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Internal RecordingH.264/H.265/MOV/MPEG-4 AVC 4:2:0 8/10-Bit

This is less of a devil in the details than it might seem at first.  Recording 4:2:0 in 6K (or nearly 6K) is going to be a lot closer to the quality of 4:4:4 when that footage is dropped on a 4K timeline.  Long GOP only in those modes is not ideal, but it is a compact camera.

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The lens on the L10 being 10.9-34mm but being described as a 24-70mm equivalent does align with that 2.2x crop factor of the 85%.

Is that a moving 85% of the sensor?  As in, does that allow turning on EIS without any additional crop?

I'm not worried about fixed lens, especially since it's a sufficiently fast zoom lens.  The bummer for me with the X100 VI series was that 35mm equivalent can feel a little cramped for tourist photos indoors - and the GFX 100RF isn't all that portable (for being a 44x33mm sensor, quite small, but enormous compared with an ZV-1).  Giving me a 24mm equivalent for indoors is great - and f/5.6 equivalent at 75mm should make for portraits with backgrounds just blurry enough to separate the subject from the background without converting the background into a toneh-esque watercolor painting with blobs of green and blue in place of trees and water.  It's pretty similar to the focal ranges for the ZV-1 which, overall, is still fantastic today - but  I'd really prefer 10-bit recording to 8-bit... and I'd gladly trade a little bit of body size for a battery that lasts a little longer.

Mostly, I'd see this as a "better than my phone" option to throw in a pocket when traveling - and that I could more easily bring out with me in places with high rates of gear theft and use without being too overt - and with a form factor that feels both more robust and more comfortable/ergonomic to use than the Pocket 3.

Just looking at the specs for this on B&H, it seems beyond exciting.  It's almost like someone from Panasonic is reading our messages on this forum and paying attention to what we'd want!

At $1,500, I'm not a buyer, but between $1,000-1,200 on the used market or on sale, I'll definitely become more interested.  Maybe some vendor will give a deal on a trade-in for my Sony ZV-1 that I still have kicking around here somewhere.

From Canon's support people, someone has to examine the camera to determine the level of work, but a rough estimate of prices, based on the perceived difficulty is:
Minor = $269
Standard = $359
Major = $499

That's before my CPS discount on repairs which is, I think, 30%.  So I guess that'd be $180, $270, or $340, give or take.  Added to the approx. $1,500 below new price (and about $1,100 below most used prices I've been seeing), that ain't bad at all.

(Though I do really need to sell something now, my gear list is getting ridiculous - anybody want a used Z Cam E2-S6G in good shape with a bunch of accessories including the eND?)

1 hour ago, kye said:

The C300 having a similar problem helps to give more confidence that your unit wasn't treated especially badly, but also gives less confidence in it happening again, or in the Canon design department!

Or in their QA department - for all I know, the first owner received the camera with the dust already in place!  Maybe they didn't care or notice - if I hadn't been told of its existence, I don't think I'd have sat here with a lens off clicking through the ND filters and I probably wouldn't have seen it until I filmed something with a solid that happens to be behind it, probably stopped down a little bit.

Anyway, I registered it with CPS.  The website didn't want to give me a price estimate since based on my purchase date, it's likely under warranty (maybe?).  So I sent them a note explaining that I bought it used, asking if there is a way to know if it's still under warranty from the original purchase date, and if not, what the price would be for them to remove the dust.

Sadly, a somewhat vigorous shaking doesn't seem to have dislodged it and it didn't budge when I blasted a little air in through the exhaust (the intake is not in a place to have a direct path)

1 hour ago, kye said:

When something doesn't work now I just treat it as the first offer in a negotiation and switch it off and let it chill for a while and come back to me when it's ready to raise it's offer 😄 

This is the way!