fuzzynormal

​Believe it or not, I actually agree with you on most of what you say; not this though. It's my observation that the average consumer, for most goods and services, defaults to the lowest common denominator. I believe the average consumer is going to use what's easiest and most readily available. The enthusiast camera market isn't where they go for imaging. Nope, these days it's their phone. I think maybe you're projecting your opinion onto the broad market reality and it doesn't really fit. Maybe you meant average consumer in the enthusiast market? Also, I'd advise you reexamine exactly why this blog is here. When you claim "the vast majority of people reading this blog are not filmographers." Well, this blog was specifically built for "filmographers" or at least those aspiring to filmograph. Check out that logo in the upper left of the webpage. It actually has a subheading explains things rather succinctly. FYI, it's in this particular context that most of the opinions here are shared, so I'd say, here at least, you're coming at things sideways. Post your opinion on dpreview.com and I'd agree, but post it here? Not so much.

I think the problem will take care of itself. Broadcast outlets will segment. Some will be like helicopter parents where everything is PC because of public service issues or just ideological attitude. Maybe like Oprah's OWN network...or PBS...or the BBC. While others will be more free because they just don't care about that nor need to. More than anything I just view it as a changing of the guard in media. BBC is trying to put the genie back in the bottle, but the bottle doesn't exist anymore. They're still looking for it though. Ultimately, these days this notoriety is power. Awareness matters good or bad. The things that make this uproar spread so easily can also be readily exploited. And it often is. I mean, good gosh, we have to deal with Kardashians don't we? Good grief, as an example my iMac just auto corrected "Kardashian" Jesus Christ. Never mind any of what I just wrote, we're all screwed.

​I can testify to this. It's very true and not only disappointing, but probably unnecessary if the Oly engineers had a bit more experience with video. After all, Sony cleaned it up it's video with the A6000. Will Oly eventually learn to do the same in future models? Let's hope. If one's goal (in owning a stills camera that shoots video) is to have the best IQ possible, the EM5II shouldn't be a consideration. Nope. If you need a tool that offers a unique creative feature such as 5-axis, then think about it. Simple. Simple. Simple. Why that reality should bother people in any semi-serious way is just odd. Wedding videographers shooting close ups and medium shots of faces with shallow DOF? You really need to have a go with this camera; might be a godsend for your work. If, on the other hand, you want the bestest IQ from a consumer camera for creative/technical purposes (or, as seems to be the case often, bragging rights) then grab a different product. I personally don't see the need to have so much trepidation about something you're not even going to own. The fact that the sentiments above can be repeated ad nauseam and some will still continue to rail becomes a study in phycological behavior rather than an exchange about cameras. But, it's the internet. I understand. I pretty sure god invented it to distract us all from the impending apocalypse. He's magnanimous in that way. Heck, I'm culpable in this silliness. I'm here posting like mad because I'm blowing off steam while dealing with a difficult client --and this alleviates some of that stress. That's my excuse anyway.

​It is. The nice thing is that it has a bit (pardon the pun) more leeway if you want to grade the image in post. I've been shooting with picture settings turned down all the way and for certain stuff that I want to 'pop' I can add some sharpening and color.

​The blocking is gone from what I can tell; haven't pointed the camera at a bunch of leaves blowing the wind, but so far so good. I think the image caries decent detail, honestly. The camera is just not going to do you any favors with that moire. That's the rub.

​Indeed. As Andrew said in his review lo these many posts ago. Every once in awhile you bump up against the limit and it's unfortunate.

​​I think the frustration with this camera is that moire exists at all. Especially after a few years of nice camera technology from Sony and Panasonic. Running around shooting faces with a bit of DOF I don't think'll be a problem. As I said earlier. Know the limitations, work around 'em.

​All of it was shot AWB to see where the camera would decide to go with the color; also if it would drift --such as certain Sony cameras have tended to do. The color and exposure actually looked pretty good in the interior stuff until one of the parents decided to "help" my filming and turned on the overhead lights. You know how that goes. I'm not going to deny that the big problem with this camera is moire, but otherwise it's giving me decent stuff.

Well, probably can't get a subject more "typical end user" than this. So here's a few minutes of the EM5II @24fps, 25 shutter speed, Natural Picture Mode, Contrast -2, Sharpness -2, Saturation -2, Gradation Normal, FullHD. Olympus 12-40mm 2.8 lens. Uploaded the file to Vimeo in the native file format as shot, no grade, no nuthin.' Flaws and all. If you want to download it and watch it 'till your eyes bleed, feel free. Sometimes I prefer motion pictures with edge blur so I shot this with 0° shutter. That's a particular taste, keep it in mind. https://vimeo.com/122338262

​Yeah, the "slow crawl." Still, it would be a worthwhile test just to get a handle on the actual limitations; knowing how far I could acceptably be able to push my luck, or not, as it were.

​I do wonder though, and am tempted to find out, with a 12mm steady handheld on the EM5II, how much would really show?

​Yeah, one can work around it. Although, for a video that is full on handheld like the one we're talking about, might not want to go away from that at the end. But you could have a lot of foreground movement to mask the tripod static-ness. BTW, you may have heard, with this camera you can shoot handheld, keep it steady, and pretty much have it look like a static shot. --Something about this special feature the EM5II has built into it. They call it 5-axis stabilization. Some say it's kind of neat. (as mentioned though, I'd grab that shot with my GM1) Anyway, I agree with you! Where there's a will there is a way. These are concepts that dudes hanging out at DXOmark.com with a magnify glass probably have a hard time comprehending.

I wouldn't. Not with the Oly. At best with the EM5II you could focus on something in the foreground and leave the back slightly soft. If you want to shoot infinity focus cityscapes and moiré bothers you, don't shoot with the EM5II. This camera has moiré. Hardly a secret. Know that while using it and you work around the limitation. For instance, almost all the other shots in that particular video read fine. I just would't have used the moiré cityscape shot in the cut. I suppose that why it's called editing. Honestly, if that was somehow a mission critical shot for a client and I HAD to get that shot, I'd pull out my GM1 for that last bit of coverage. Yes, I know, everyone is bummed that the EM5II is sub par on the moire IQ, and I realize everyone wants perfection and their own ideal in whatever camera(s) they're carrying around. If that ideal falls short, holy moly the internet is going to have something to say. Well, this EM5II might not be a perfect video camera(not even close), but it's a stretch to think that it's not a useful tool in many other regards. Depending on who you are and what you want to do it might be a useful tool in all regards. Oh my, I'm feeling a little dizzy. My stars... I'll be in the parlor. Somebody ring the footman for some Earl Gray and a biscuit.

​I'm not the most talented shooter, but all you have to do with this camera is accept the limitations and exploit the advantages. You'll get good shots. Maybe that's why I kind of like ...some...most (?)... of what I'm getting from the Oly. It's "quieting" my lens while handheld and making simple quick shots look rather elegant. Moreover, if one is a decent visual storyteller a lot of this clutching-of-IQ-pearls is not that important. I know some of us might require a velvet tufted chaise to fall into when we witness the EM5II's moiré, but others will roll with it and make it work. Obviously, here on the internet, it's all great procrastination fodder. For me especially...I think this is my 20th post on the topic. Anyway, I have some pragmatic "real world" footage from yesterday. When I get it edited, I'll put up a link; w/the raw ungraded shots.

Considered the same, but since I've been using the camera on a few things, I warmed up to it. The camera is certainly not refined for video like my Panasonic cameras are. Still, the benefits outweigh the limitations for me. I better not tell other camera manufacturers about my decision though. They might stop production of their high resolution sensors for video --and concentrate so much on 5axis stabilization that thier sensor IQ will falter and the whole economy of enthusiast cameras will crumble to the ground.

Yeah, that dusk shot of San Fran is pretty much what scares people about this camera. Oh well.

​You know what else is weird? On my GX7, I HAVE to shoot 125 shutter in 60p mode in order to get slow-mo footage to conform properly...not so on the EM5II. 60p with a 60 shutter will slow-mo no problem. So, I don't know, maybe there's something to your speculation.

As for me, I spent this afternoon shooting "natural" with all settings at -2. I like it. I also filmed 24p with a 0º shutter. Those settings are probably not to some tastes, but I'm liking what I'm seeing.

​Yeah I know. It's not practical though while filming.

One of the things I'm considering is if I should go with only my vintage lenses on the EM5II. As of this version of the firmware, it's not really practical to change exposure while shooting. As a documentarian that needs to roll long takes, having the ability to adjust without stopping is important. So, looks an iris ring is the only option right now. Firmware fix ASAP? It'll be curious to see how attentive Olympus is regarding updates.

At the end of the day, the video IQ from the EM5II is inferior to similar cameras from companies like Sony and Panasonic. The thing is, it's not a disaster. It's got moiré, that's kind of the worst thing to say about it. And if you want to minimize moire and roll off those higher frequencies in your image, there are very simple ways to do it. Just read what that Brawley guy advises. Easy. Do I think the EM5II should have better IQ in 2015? Yes. Is it going to stop me from being productive with it? No. I'll do just fine and so will thousands of other owners. The Canon T3i has moire too. Didn't stop this guy: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/8116-short-film-shot-on-canon-t3i/ Ah, perhaps I'm pissing in the wind here. Arguing about IQ seems to be many a camera hobbyist's dedicated pastime. Actually using the camera in creative ways? Maybe not so much.

​Yup. Use what you got well. That's all that matters.

​I think that is possible, but not likely. Moreover, I don't believe any upgrade will be forthcoming in a timely manner. Even then I wouldn't expect it to change the IQ much. Here's to hope though!

​You don't, you know.