tosvus

Exaclty The LX100 is a compact toy to replace smatrphone if you want a video or photo better than smartphones, or if you want a (limited) B roll cam.

Other device FZ1000 and specially GH4 put in your hand a complete device pro device with the characteristic if you underline.

It is certainly not a toy for photos, I prefer it over GH3 for instance. For video, it is not a replacement for the GH4, and nobody ever said that. It takes almost equally fantastic 4k video, but lacks the features (that you must have repeated about a dozen times at this point).  You seem to have a problem grasping what the term "Compact camera" means. This is overall, everything considered, perhaps the best compact camera ever created. (At least if you are a hybrid shooter).  If you want to lug around a GH4, or even a FZ1000, that is a whole different segment. The FZ1000 cannot compete on stills, especially lowlight either.

I had the opportunity to use it again today, and while i still find that on a close subject, the picture quality is great, on a distant subject or for landscape, it's less convincing. Soft corners, more moire than my gh4, and mostly, the sharpness is too high (if I reduce it, the picture is a bit soft but a lot of moire disappears), it seems the camera sharpening is overused.

I don't see any issues with moire that looks worse than my GH3. Corners don't seem particularly soft. Distance photos could be you use an aperture with deep enough DoF, or focusing is a bit off. Of course, don't expect this or any m43 camera to compare to a 36MP camera from Nikon or Sony.

haha never ending. Maybe you should actually buy one rather than rehashing your sour grapes that seem to be VERY loosely based on reality, and incredibly badly formed expectations. Your complaints are never ending, that's for sure.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg again Panasonic did something wrong. I did rent it tooo, and this shit tripod hole is totally close to the battery case... what di panasonic think when doing this stupid stuff... everytime completely taking down all tripod mounts or quick reles plates....

 

the only thing you can do is completely remove the battery plate

It sounds like the LX100 is going to be really popular, so I am hoping someone comes up with a nice cage for it. Then hopefully you should be able to mount a plate on that, that doesn't block the battery compartment.

I see no hw limitation in getting out a HD feed from HDMI, since the hw is the same as on the gh4... I could understand if the vidoe out is not 4K 12bit, but that the hdmi out is completely off is a really shame... this is sw limitation that make no sense... there would be a lot of LX100 already flying it if they would not hat locked this... how do you know what your camera is filming, if you are completely blind... Im really really angry... pana is now making same stuff like Canon.

 

I would be fine with infrared trigger, gut at moment panasonic is not supported at all...

I agree it is bad they do not have live HDMI out, and I can see that in your situation it is especially frustrating, but they are a FAR cry from Canon!

Worst case, you can start the recording before you take off, and mount a tiny camera w/transmitter on the quad copter - I have heard others are planning on doing this. Yes, it's a pain, but at least you can get the shot. Try to get 4K out of anything portable and affordable from Canon :)

an whats about this HDMI or Video out.... any update? Is there any ext. device to trigger the cam when mounted on a drone?

Hopefully, unless there are physical limitations, Panasonic can at some point be convinced to open it up, but not holding my breath. Don't know of any devices to trigger, but you may want to jump over to '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

Not sure how feasible it is to a) adjust it to work with lx100, and b) since I think it is windows, get it to work on one of those tiny computers you can get these days. c)it would use wireless, not sure how safe that would be whether you are able to use it either mounted to the drone or on the ground, due to interference?

I got my LX100 yesterday. Don't know how it is compared to the GH4 + 12-35 combo, but the IS seems quite efficient from the tests that I did. The main thing I wanted to confirm is that the IS effectively deminished micro-jitters (which it does quite well, even while holding the camera in your hands only). And the image quality is quite stunning in 4K. I was also pleasantly surprised with image and noise performance in low light/higher ISOs. Up to now, I'm really happy I ordered one! Please report back for your thoughts once you'll have received and tested it!

I'm glad to hear it deals with micro jitters - that is the most annoying thing for me (and I see that with the 35-100 2.8 lens)

I will report back as well :)

It has more useful and intuitive fully manual aperture and shutter speed controls. Better than one PASM ring.

I agree with you, but it looks like people have very different ways of shooting (and sometimes wanting to switch to take pictures in the middle as well). I guess for some it is a curse, but for me, I really like this setup. I only wish the Exposure compensation dial doubled as a iso-dial when in manual mode.

keep a lookout on eBay. I got one by a DIY guy for 300-something. It doesn't look fancy but works fine. It's limited in weight to something like a nex5n with a kit lens, or possibly a bit heavier. It's a 3-way brushless gimbal and came preconfigured for my cam since happened to have the same on.

I wonder if some of you have any experiences with wide angle converters. If I purchase the LX100, I would be looking into a wide angle converter in order to get a 15-20ish mm field of view. I did a bit of research and narrowed it down to the following two :

 

Canon WD-H43 43mm 0.7x wide angle converter lens

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485502-REG/Canon_2072B001_WD_H43_43mm_0_7x_Wide.html

 

OR

 

Raynox HD-6600 43mm 0.66x wide angle converter lens

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/227155-REG/Raynox_HD_6600PRO_43_HD_6600_43mm_0_66x_Pro.html

 

They both have pretty good reviews and seem relatively well built, but I'm wondering about image quality... Do these types of converter lenses decrease image quality to a high degree? (resolution, colors, alter flares, etc...) ? Might I just be better off purchasing a GoPro for wide shots? I didn't want to spend that extra money and I also wanted to maintain all the manual adjustments (which GoPros don't have).

I have good wide angle converters that are bigger (and pretty expensive) and they work well. For video, you will likely be ok (especially if the final result will be 1080p), for photos I would be more concerned.

One note though: depending on the weight and how the lx100 is built/works when focusing/zooming, it could be a concern to mount something more substantial than a filter on the front. Someone else can probably give you a better idea of whether the lx100 is ok for this or not in that sense.

Was wondering about image stabilization. Is it decent? There are apparently 3 settings : one "normal" mode, one "active", one "off"  (a bit like RX100). I'd like to know if the modes are effective, and if they reduce resolution and picture quality like the RX100 does. And would they also crop the image/change the focal length in doing so?

I wasn't aware there are multiple settings on the LX100, but the discussions I have seen on other forums, from people owning the RX100 and/or the GH4, is that the between the LX100 and RX100, the RX100 has more effective stabilization, but does not maintain the quality level (sharpness, detail), due to active mode doing electronic stabilization on top of optical.

A couple of people owning the GH4 as well as the LX100, say that when moving around it is better controlled with GH4 + 12-35 2.8 OIS, but standing still, the LX100 OIS is better. 

On a sidenote, as Andrew noted as well, others state moire does not seem to be quantifiable worse than on the GH4, and probably better than GH3.

I should get my LX100 on Friday, so looking forward to testing it out.

Good for certain scenes, but I suspect I would get "sea-sick" fairly fast..

cool Alex. I'm a version behind on Lightroom so this may come in handy when I get the camera and until I do upgrade.

I didn't know this was the "Be 100% possitive and nothing else about the new camera of the week" forum.  But thanks for setting us all straight.

 

Personally I find it a little puzzling that the issues the camera labs review exposed about the camera havent been addressed in this discussion.  And like all enthusiast gear lust cameras its over priced.   A new camera is a write off for a gear reveiwer but not everyone can spunk over every camera that comes out.  Is this post too negative?  here's a challenge: write a possitive response to it.

By all means, constructive posts are fine, and maybe you can contribute to this thread by being clear about the points in the camera labs review that concerns you the most. I'm sure there are valid concerns that could/should be addressed in a FW update for instance, or if you need to point out certain uses the camera is not going to be great for.

The posts that I referred to were either *a* Complaining that a $899 camera doesn't have 4K 10-bit, when Panasonic is pretty much revolutionizing the compact segment to even include 4K. and *b* People that practically cut and paste their own post several times saying why they don't like the camera and another camera is better. That adds nothing to the discussion after the first time.... 

LX100 mistakes... No mode dial (LX7 had a mode dial), no separate creative movie mode replaced by annoying video "mode" (LX7 had it), lack of all CINE profile, lack of mic-in, no live HDMI monitoring, no tiltable screen

 

for ma FZ1000 is a winner even if has a smaller sensor and "darker" lens

How many times are you planning on repeating what you don't like about the LX100, and that you plan to get the FZ1000? I'm sure Andrew will make a thread about it soon, or you can make one yourself.  Others like the fact that it does not use a mode dial, and most people understand that this was not meant to be a camera to replace the GH4.

Don't get me wrong. The write-up is good. I just dont undertand the hype around 4k cameras with 8bit colors...

I think the point is that your post gives nothing in this discussion. If you only can accept 4k with more bits, then there are cameras there for you but they are x thousands of dollars, and there is certainly no-one in this thread about a relatively cheap compact camera that happens to take great video that think it will replace those. The Lx100 is a camera that will take nice quality 4K, and downscaled to 1080p (which is what most probably will do at this point anyway), it seems to compete favorably to far more expensive 1080p cameras. Also, there is an old discussion about downscaling it could yield 1080p 10-bit. (Math seems to support it, but I don't recall any definitive confirmation in testing the quality differences when doing so)

People, generally, if you don't feel this is the camera for you, there is nothing gained by moaning here about missing features. It is what it is. Focus on other cameras instead, or maybe make a wishlist thread for future LX cameras. (but be realistic :))

The retro controls make sense on something like a Fuji X100 which is primarily a stills camera.   But this cockamamy routine that requires you to rotate 3 dials (aperture ring, shutter dial, rear dial) every time you alternate between shooting stills in aperture priority and video at 1/50s is pretty poor.

 

What shutter speed does the LX100 choose if you just leave the shutter dial set to A and hit the record button?  Does it default to 1/50s (assuming you've selected 25P)?

I like seeing the settings right on the dial, though I agree they should have added 50 (and preferably 48) there for the people that shoot 24p and 25p video, rather than having to dial it in with the rear dial.

Maybe you switch a lot back and forth between video and stills, but I typically do not, so for me the arrangement should be working great.

Cinegain, thanks for taking the time to answer everyone's questions! :)

Yeah, the FZ1000 has 5-Axis hybrid OIS (mind you, not in 4K or high speed recording), the LX100 just Power OIS (not sure how many axis that is specifcally).

Yes, 4K recording starts countdown from 15mins.

 

No, you cannot use it like this unfortunately.

 

They have to provide some kind of clear separation. Yeah, I know that it's fixed lens solution against an interchangeable lens system, but as someone that invested in a GH4 I would be pretty pissed if a camera would come out with almost the exact same features but put in a smaller and much more affordable package. So I guess that's one side of the story: cutting down on features as to protect the value of higher-end products. Everybody is crippling their lower priced products, it's just how things work at companies. And then on the other side of course it would bump productions costs and bulk of the camera a bit (it will take money and space to implement). And remember, the LX100 and FZ1000 aren't really targeting filmmakers and video enthusiasts per se. There probably only is a relatively small percentage of users actually finding use for these kind of features, although I have to say, some kind of optional connector unit with mic-in and headphone-out would be welcome... but again, that would narrow the gap between lines. I think it's the same reason why they won't give the LX100 a touchscreen. And who knows perhaps they could've given the GM5 4K video as well, but why would someone then still buy a LX100 or GH4?

 

Pretty sure you'll love it! Enjoy!

 

Actually, it hasn't. Because it has no dedicated videomode you can set auto-ISO, but as soon as you start rolling video this sticks with the initial ISO (unless that's what you meant, yeah it does pick that all by itself). Also, the feature completely disappears in 4K Photo mode.

 

It doesn't do anything.

 

Yes, it does indeed! It also features the same accessory ring you'll find on the LX7.

 

I would never put a camera into my pockets, that place is full of dust and you won't get it out a camera with fixed lens. You also don't want to stress the aligment between lens and sensor.

I would keep it in a soft pouch in there, the times I were to carry it like that, but I'm sure many people like to keep the camera in a pants pocket (even without protection for the camera).

It's not RX100 competitor as those are pocket cameras and fit in (even tight) pockets. This doesn't.  Totally different segment. 

I think it depends on your pockets! :)  Seriously though, I often wear pants with pretty wide pockets, and certainly fall through spring I mostly have a jacket, so for me, this is absolutely comparable to the Rx100. For others, not, but calling it a totally different segment is a stretch in my humble opinion.

No built-in ND filter and no filter thread on the lens. Hmm...

 

I'm also interested in how the overheating of the sensor is handled by the camera. I assume that it starts from 15 minutes and counts down to 0, but what happens if you do a 5 minute clip and then start a new recording? Does it then start from 10 minutes or 15 minutes? What kind of warning does it give when it starts to overheat?

I would be curious to know where this mis-conception about filter thread comes from. It definitely has a 43mm thread, but for some reason, a lot of people seem to think it doesn't. Is there some particular review that has an oversight?

I posted a question earlier, hoping someone knows:

Stupid question, but does the exposure dial in manual mode in reality adjust iso, or doesn't it do anything?

I like the following on the LX100 vs my gh3:

-Focus Peaking

-Auto Iso in Manual mode (as Vesku mentioned)

-The dials fit me better with real dials for shutter, exposure, aperture. I would probably reconfigure the focus/control ring on the lens to do Iso mostly

-I like the fact that using shutter and aperture dials determines the mode it is in, rather than having a dedicated mode dial

Stupid question, but does the exposure dial in manual mode in reality adjust iso, or doesn't it do anything?

Adding jacks and circuits adds space. Also there is of course the interest of panasonic to somewhat protect the gh4. I think before judging that too harshly, the gh4 is an incredibly affordable pro solution for video, and for the money what you get with lx100 and fz1000 is an incredible steal. Look at what canon, Nikon and Sony provides to consumers in terms of features and quality vs price on the video front.

Great write-up, and the video looks great (I know it is shot on multiple cameras :))

Is it confirmed that the lx100 has no live hdmi out? I seem to recall reading it somewhere, but other people note it as a question mark.

I have both, actually all 3.

 

It is hard to tell someone what to buy. The quality of the image and video from the LX100 is very good to excellent. Is it as good as the GH4? I would say if you are a pro and looking for the equal of the GH4 then the answer is no.

 

But if you are an enthusiast and can cut the camera some slack, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

 

Remember, I have only had the LX100 here for about 5 hours now, so as time goes on my opinion may change.

 

The disappointing thing about the LX100 is it is certainly not a baby GH4. The camera is 80 percent a point and shoot camera that dips into the higher end here and there. The menus try and emulate the GH4, but they are clumsy, and not just a little bit clumsy - low end pint and shoot type camera clumsy. I am quite surprised.

 

The camera would be a deal breaker for me if it were not for the really good quality video. I expect the images to be excellent too, it leans in that direction but I won't know until I can shoot RAW.

 

Here is a simple example. Say you are not totally or only a video guy. Video is really high on your list, but you want to take meaningful pictures too. I am a photographer, so when I take pictures - even just home pictures - if they are not "excellent" you know darn well the comment "and you are supposed to be a photographer" is going to hit you head on. To achieve those excellent pictures consistently, you really have to have control of the camera. So, take the LX100 in hand, go to take a shot and you will notice you have no control over the focus point. You can press 3 buttons and get control, or set the menu so you can have direct access to the 4 way controller just like the big boy cameras :) As you shoot along you want to do a custom white balance (something a lot of folks won't ever do) and you find you no longer can do a custom white balance unless you go into the menu and undo your setting to have direct access to the 4 way controller dial. You can change the white balance, but you can't do a custom white balance.

 

Now go to video.Is the quality as good as my GH4? not quite. But at 4K reduced to 1080, it is head and shoulders better than any direct 1080p camera I have used. Again, no custom white balance unless you go and reset the main menu back to the way it was. So now you give up using the 4 way controller easily and just go thru the hoops.

 

Bottom line, coming down fro the GH4 the feeling is yuck. Coming up from a Canon G1X II or a Sony RX100-3, the camera is terrific.

 

I won't be grabbing the LX100 for any pro level work, images or video. But I think most people will like the LX100. Its calling card is the 4k video quality - especially when going down to 1080 - and the bigger sensor for all other imaging. The focus is quite good and the camera surpasses almost all other point and shoot sized camera I have used. My problem is at $900 i would really really wanted more of a nod to having some usable features in it. For stills I cannot select a "lowest shutter speed" like I can on the EM1, but the GH4 doesn't have that either.

 

The GH4 with a 12-35 is a dream. It just works - period. if you do put the size differences in the mix, then get the 12-35 lens. If you want a 12-35 lens (almost, but not quite) and a free camera thrown in, then get the LX100.

 

Peter

Good points. Luckily for me, I'm in the camp that usually adjusts wb after the fact. If I am picky about it being right, I will throw in a gray card in the first picture, otherwise I will look for white/gray area to pick from, or worst case, go by memory. Even with focusing, I am slow at adopting new benefits from these cameras, so I usually just use center focus, lock focus and re-compose. If I am really lazy, I may even hope for face/eye-detection to work..

I absolutely agree though. This camera is not a replacement for a GH4 with a 12-35 (though it has the one benefit in that it is actually faster on the wide-end, there are many reasons why it cannot compete). I can definitely see it as an a-cam for most of the stuff *I* do (I would ironically use my gh3 as b-cam for longer or wider focal lengths, but I don't think it can compete with the lx100 4k material (downsized), so I would probably try to use the lx100 whenever possible.

For others, this camera should be a great b-cam for certain uses, like on handheld gimbal's, mounted to people, vehicles, quad copters etc.

Back to the topic though - since you have the GH4, and if you don't want a second camera for those uses, or perhaps just to have two focal lengths covered simultaneously, or a nice carry-around camera, the 12-35 seems like the more logical choice for *you* :)

Hi,

It's fairly common that when new cameras come out, you'd have to wait for an update from the software developer to support the format. In this case, it makes especially sense, since the raw format will not use the normal sensor dimensions, but rather various crops - so I guess some tweaking was done. Adobe is usually fairly quick at coming out with updates though. In the meantime you could see if Panasonic has an app that supports it, or if any other free/trial software supports the new format.