tosvus

5D camera is a more cinematic image...... GH4 is great for Drone work, on actual people requires insane amount of color correction / grading to look even halfway decent where as Canon 5D instantly looks great.

 

On the flip side to this I own a Sony A7s and think it is AMAZING, but I still agree that Canon simply has those beautiful colors. I'm interested in the C100 Mark II, looks like a nice step up for professional work.

 

 

*GH3 was sharp and required softer settings, GH4 is much sharper in 4k therefore looks even more like video. I did only one real project that I really liked on the GH4 and shot it using Slr Magic lenses Wide open (T 1.4). I would not consider the GH4 moving forward to anyone wanting to achieve cinematic images in 24/25p. It's nice for 60p and closeup shots of 96fps, but honestly I would stay away. Sony A7s is a much better camera imho

You know... you can use different lenses or filters, or unsharpen in post. I find it funny that people contain a camera is too sharp.. I have seen plenty of films with a sharp picture that are very cinematic by the way.

nobody is suggesting that all reframing should happen in post. The point is 4k has many qualities besides pure resolution, including (occasional) reframing. Therefore this camera also has a drawback (like all the other cameras mentioned have other ones).

If this camera had come out with 4k, at least through recorder, at that price point, it would have been fantastic. Now it is not THAT great of a deal.

Tell Fincher that. I'm guessing he is a tad more successful than any of us on this board ;)

If you are purists, you should also not want a camera with high DR as it would be a no no to adjust exposure in post. Heck, why shoot digital? Good photographers/videographers don't need to do anything in post except maybe the dark room. :)

4k the future? The viewing distance of a computer monitor is not much more than an arm's length. So sure 4k is noticeable. It's 9 feet in a living room. I leave the math up to you.

 

Not sure how much doc work you do or testing of variable ND's you've done but variable ND's have considerable issues in terms color cast, IR contamination, as well background flaring / contrast issues and then usability (have fun using it with a sun shade).  Compare the IQ of any variable to a straight ND. You'll see background contrast especially in the bokeh is muddier as well as color distortions. If continuity figures into your shooting, the latter can be a big problem. Even with Heliopans.

 

Regarding EF lenses on super 35mm as a waste, how can you justify that? Loads of shoots, professional and amateur alike use them to great effect. Virtually every paying doc  job uses a 70-200 at some point. In super 35 you get considerably less fall off towards the corners. 

 

Concerning the Fs7, I think it's a great concept on paper. Until I've used it or seen some good tests/footage from it, it's just specs. And if specs were everything, the Alexa would be a waste and the industry would be dominated by f5/55's. Have you had a chance to shoot / grade Fs7? Love to know what you think, flawed opinion or not.

 

Hurlbut's review of course is tainted by his biases like all of our opinions. For you, 4k seems to a be a priority. For many, like me, it's not. The consistency with Hurlbut that I share as well is that he leans towards cameras that produce rich but natural flesh tones and low noise. All of his tests use faces  and color charts (not trees, buildings, cars, bridges, etc). He's trying to discern the camera's accuracy and ability to re-produce that which he thinks is most important, flesh tone. Based on this, I thought the IQ overall from his C100 II tests looked outstanding (except bad clipping in one shot). Hopefully, he does a proper A/B with Fs7.

I think your response is based on the assumption that all we want is the highest resolution/sharpest image. There are plenty of other reasons why shooting in 4K is great, most of them for outputting in 1080p (cropping, reframing, stabilization and so on).

That said, I'm sure this is ergonomically great, and has a good setup for sound/nd filters built in etc, it just seems to be a camera Canon should have announced 4 years ago or so.

not sure it will look all that great without a lens though  :)

Maybe you can rig a pinhole setup - then it will shoot *something* out of the box for $6K :)

well.. For one, I think his math is a bit off..

and woohoo, frame rate increased to 60p (in 1920x1080..)

"requires an external recorder to get the most out of it) - yeah I suppose at a mere $5995, it is too much to ask for it to deliver this internally..

Hi,

 

I was going to purchase a GH4 today to be used with video and pick up the 20mm 1.7 and 14-140 II.  Is it better to get the 14-140 I (Mega OS) lens, does it have any issues on the GH4???  I was planning to use this for sports video capturing.  

Its interesting because I watched some videos of the new 14-140 yesterday and didnt really notice the jitters until it was pointed out in this thread as some videos are more sever than others.

 

Thanks

i don't own either, but based on everything I have read, the v1 does not exhibit the issue that the v2 has in terms of micro jitter.

I shot a wedding with the 35 - 100mm and was gutted to find micro vibrations coming through from what is a (for M43 system) a very expensive lens. This was on a GH3, so it's not just a GH4 thing.. but it might be a Panasonic thing. Has anyone tried the offending lenses on a Olympus or Black Magic body to see if the footage from those cameras also has the jitter?

There is no reason they shouldn't have the same issue. I have it on my 35-100 with gh3 as well by the way. Vesku just posted some testing regarding mercalli v4, and I tested it a bit myself - it is a way to save stuff  you shot that you need fixed, but paying over $200 for software to correct something Panasonic should have taken care of in the first place kinda sucks. If you use Premiere, you can try warp stabilizer, your mileage may vary.. I did some quick testing but didn't get anything really great out of that. The Mercalli demo seemed to work better.

You mention Olympus, and of course the work around for those are to disable OIS on the lens and just use IBIS.

in your situation the gh4 is a great alternative, unless you plan to shoot handheld a lot.

Hey, 

 

what camera currently shoots the best 1080p image at a higher than normal frame rate? 

 

I know that right now 4K and crazy low light shooting is all the rage, but for the stuff I shoot it's very important to slow down the footage every now and then. Right now I shoot with a Panasonic GH3 in 50fps. I'm happy with the results. I don't really see a point in picking up a GH4 because 4K only goes up to 30fps. 

 

So what's the best (affordable) option right now when you constantly need higher frame rates? Sony A7s @ 1080p/60fps? Samsung NX1 @ 1080p/120fps? Panasonic GH3/GH4/G6 at 1080p/60fps? 

 

Cheers!

I couldn't tell you, but pretty sure the GH4 does 1080/96fps

Rather than Twixtor, download the latest software for GoPro. It is free, and apparently they own Twixtor and included that technology into their video editor.

"GoPro Studio Flux":

http://cheesycam.com/gopro-studio-flux-slow-motion-option/

Depends on what you want to use it for of course, but if you have lenses for GH4, that out of the gate would be a great advantage...

While A7S is fantastic for low light video, it requires an external recorder to do 4K, so add up that camera, a recorder and lenses.....

If I started fresh, the Samsung looks mighty tempting too, but still not convinced about their lens line-up, and I believe speed-boosters are out of the question for the NX1?

I've had a G6, superb camera, but only 1080p. Sold to buy 4K.

Is it possible to make a follow focus shot on either lx100 or fz1000?

I have not tried much with the LX100 but I think both would be similar, and not great, since they are fly by wire focus both of them (I believe).

OP who mentions training videos mainly my recommendations:: Personally (and I own a LX100 myself which I love), I would probably go for the fz1000. If they are novices, and plan on shooting training videos/simple stuff, the camera has some advantages:

a. in controlled lighting, the smaller sensor shouldn't be much of an issue.

b. the fz1000 will have a deeper DoF, which is a good thing so they don't get stuff out of focus more than necessary...  In fact, lighting permitting, they should stop it down to have it as wide as possible, and turn off continous auto focus (just be smart with placement of people, and set the focus point at the beginning of the recording)

c. it has audio in. I can't imagine these guys want to do audio sync in post, and an internal mic is not sufficient for recording training videos

d. the zoom range can come in handy, depending on setup.

M100: For you, I think the LX100 makes more sense, with the bigger sensor, and possibly less need for audio.

Not sure where to start with this topic...

I guess as others have said;

1. Technology is cheap and here to stay (and get even cheaper). So you have to live with that.

2. I am a proponent of sharing info. Granted, in this area I still learn more from others than I teach, but I try. When I get very good at it, I will still want to share. There are wonderful examples of people here and elsewhere that do this already. It is also good to have friends/contacts. Living in a vacuum is never smart. It tends to choke you to death.

3. Nobody can take your creativity away from you. If you however always follow a recipe, sure someone can emulate that, though maybe not 100%... If that is the case though, maybe you don't really deserve to be in a position that is different anyway? If what you do is so easily replaced by amateurs with a "script", well... At least you don't have to worry about your job being outsourced to a low cost country on the other side of the globe...

4. I find it particularly worrying that someone who admitted benefiting learning from others on the internet, now suddenly wants to keep what he picked up along the way to himself. If you had been sitting and contemplating on the perfect technique all by yourself on top of a mountain for years, I would have more sympathy for being protective. 

 
WTF?!  Do you not understand the concept of modeling different scenarios?  I doesn't mean that the scenarios have happened or will happen.  Why would anyone other than people replying to the make believe scenario presented by the other poster say that Panasonic's camera division is going out of business?!
 
It's make believe.  Why are you taking this so personally?
 
Okay tell us what you think would happen in that one highly unlikely scenario.  And why.
 

Which is why Panasonic shuttered their prestigious plasma television division this year.

Some of the absolutely best televisions in the world. And they shut it down.

It is annoying to me because these games with hypothetical scenarios (some of which are highly unlikely), have no place in this thread, or most threads on this forum. If you want to discuss viability of companies, there are plenty of financial sites for that. I tend to believe most visitors to this site wants to find out what the best equipment to get at the moment(for the advanced amateur/professional on a budget), and to exchange experiences on how to utilize this equipment as best as possible. The topic of this particular thread is that Canon may have some good stuff on the horizon for us in 2015 (which I hope - the more, the merrier, and the better quality equipment we get for less money). 

PS: Panasonic shut down Plasma's because THAT PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY was not viable anymore. Similar to why it makes little sense to have cameras with Mirrors in them for Video (though there are certainly areas of photography where these are still the best). 

Did you read my post?  I was giving my answer to a very specific and very unlikely scenario.  If you aren't going to go back and read the scenario presented please refrain from critiquing my answer.  Also my post was based on the current market share and finanical positions of the mentioned companies.  It was also based upon statements put out by company upper management.  You can't do company and industry strategic planning based soley on what you read in videography forums.  There is a lot more to running this companies and divisions.

Yes I did, and the scenario does not in any case excuse you throwing out some of the comments you did put out there. For instance, feel free to list all your sources that have stating that Panasonic's camera division is going out of business... I follow a lot more than "videography" sites, and I have not seen much to indicate this. You can also check back quite a few years looking at shady analysts and their predictions, and figure out how many good cameras the likes of Panasonic, Sony and Olympus has delivered since then. Some of you guys remind me of those "The end of the world is near" people. Japanese companies, while looking at the bottom line of course, also have a different culture than some western companies, and there are other things that matter to them as well. As always, things are a bit more complex than it appears. (Whether it is a prosumer that points to Panasonic and Samsung for the best video for the money, or it is the business minded person that thinks all comes down to money and predicts everyone but Canon and Nikon will go under)

Over time, our perceptions may slowly change, as more and more of the material we are bombarded with every day will be high framerates. Right now though, I agree for a cinematic experience that is supposed to be something different than reality, 24 fps does it best for me.

Movies where they go for a reality type look (i.e. "someone is taping while a monster is chasing them in the woods"), 60P would probably be great, even now. 

I think some of the dynamic range discussion was telling, where it seems some of the negativity comes from the fact they feel they lose ownership. They don't want someone changing the look a few years down the road. I can understand that argument, just like painters wouldn't be happy if someone used some chemical to brighten up a painting. However, being an amateur a-z guy, I would find it very useful to shoot it to the best of my ability, and then have a chance to try different approaches in post and find a look that in the end I like the best. I guess I don't have the confidence of these guys that I do it right the first time :)

 

Canon is an investment grade company.  Sony is a junk bond company.  Canon is the number one camera manufacturer in the world.  Sony is a distant third.
 
Why would you assume they would have similiar strategies?  Canon is making money.  Sony is losing money.  Even if you go down to the division level Canon and Sony are making money in very different ways.  Canon has the Cinema line and their DSLR lineup where they are king and Sony is doing good things with it's larger sensor mirrorless cameras.  Also Canon has all their lenses where as Sony...
 
They are just two companies in very different situations and they are both doing what they think is best for them.  Look at Apple and Samsung.  Both have a strangle hold on the world cell phone market.  Apple for most of its history sold ONE cell phone.  Now after Jobs died they are up to three.  Samsung sells a ton of different phones and many of those come in two or more versions.  Apple is more profitable than Samsung but you wouldn't suggest Samsung's solution is to slash its device line down to three high priced (IMHO overpriced) handsets?  Neither would you expect Apple start selling tons of cheap iphones to compete with Chinese manufacturers.
 
My thesis is Canon has decided to cede one segment of the camera market to Sony, Panasonic, Blackmagic, etc.  They are being left to fight it out.
 
 

 
That guy probably never even picked up a 7D MK II.  Like many people on photography review sites and forums he probably heard more video features and just assumed the camera sucks.  I've posted numerous quotes in this forum from photography forums and review sites from photographers swearing not to buy such and such camera if Canon/Nikon add any more video features.  If you are using that guy as your source the conclusion you should reach is Canon should move away from video.
 
This is what guys like that want...
 

http://***URL removed***/reviews/nikon-df
 
Hard to believe but those people do exist.  And they are a lot more common than you think.
 
 

 
Panasonic's camera division goes out of business.  Samsung... who knows.  They are a profitable company overall so they can have a division losing some money. Blackmagic... It really depends what they come out with.  I mean the $500 BMPCC sitting on my desk isn't a good omen.  Sony...  they get out of the consumer camera business.  Their low end stuff sales have already dropped precipitously.  They are banking on the a7s, a7r, etc.
 
The funny thing is people talk about "Panasonic" listening to their customers, etc.  Actually they should say some engineers and marketers in Panasonic's camera division.  Because I have seen zero commitment from the CEO of Panasonic to the camera division.  Panasonic is pivoting to industrial and automotive businesses and away from consumer electronics.
 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-13/panasonic-revives-as-nintendo-sony-falter

Talk about overreaching on your predictions about Panasonic... As for your "Samsung...who knows", I could easily say that about either Nikon or Canon (unless they wise up soon). Things change, who knows who will be on top in a few years. I think you fail to take into account that several Japanese companies like Panasonic, Olympus, Sony sees prestige in the camera market. These are companies that people have predicted would get out of the camera business for several years, yet they still exist and keep coming out with more innovative products than Nikon/Canon.

Oh well, I will keep buying the cameras/lenses that fit my needs and budget, and in the video business, that is currently m43, samsung or sony it seems...

Exactly !

most of the people are on this forum to learn how to extract evey last drop of value out of their dslr or mirrorless camera.

 

You are an exception to that as you are shooting on hi end cameras and lenses 95% of people on here are not .

Alot of people on here dont own lights either......

 

Its not the Reduser forum this , its more about how to get your DSLR ticked out and working to the max with some nice lenses.

While I agree, if people keep asking how to shoot cinematic footage, Jax is highlighting (no pun intended) an important area. Sometimes it can be as simple and cheap as proper positioning or using reflectors. I know that at least myself (being an absolute amateur) want to start paying more attention to lighting as well.

you bring up a good point, and in my view this closes the playing field.

seriously?? Panasonic has not responded to the fact they have real issues with their power ois, and this has been widely complained about for months. Do you really think they will turn around with good news about lx100 hdmi in.a couple of weeks?

The fact that you, Andrew and pretty much every gear-related blog and every single commenter out there see Canon having a manipulative one hell of a marketing department that sells old technology for high prices to the ignorants, is pretty much why I see Canon marketing is absolute failure.

I don't believe it for a second the company is limited by technology or engineers or actual capability, if they wanted to put a 4K window, 14bit raw video, peaking/zebras/waveform, Canon Log, 4:3 mode, 10bit codec, I am 100% they can do it with a couple of firmware codes. They're only limited by marketing reasons.

It's their marketing depertment that's a complete failure, failure to the point of making the company hated by 90% of the community, and their behaviour and work is going to bring down the company's name very soon if it continues that way.

Ebrahim, I take it you do not have a lot of background in sensor and processing technology. There is no given that a simple firmware update can unlock a variety of features, and 4K would be probably about the hardest thing you could think of "unlocking". The sensor needs to be capable, the bandwidth needs to be there, the processor must be powerful enough, and programmable to do this.

Doug Laurent, do yourself a couple of favors;

1. Try to realize that Canon is not God, and that defending a camera that costs almost 10x a camera like the GH4 is plain silly.

2. Using blue font is just annoying. Just because you highlight/make it bold or change colors doesn't make you right or cause anyone to believe you are.

well,well. Andrew you are bound to step on a few toes (not that many anymore though...).

I think your article is spot on. I think defensiveness on the part of a few commenters trumped them paying attention to the segment you were addressing.

Dear Santa

this is what I really really want just cos looks nice rehoused ! (and its my favourite lens)

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281453583979?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Well, we decided it was best to break it to our daughter that Santa isn't the one bringing presents. She is 10 and more and more of her friends started saying he doesn't exist. She was a bit shocked and quickly deducted there is no easter bunny or tooth fairy either.

I hope you are not similarly shocked ;)