Neumann Films

Sigma 24mm Art at f 1.4 for most (you can probably spot them), 12-35mm and I think that last shot was 35-100 f 2.8 (Lumix).

Lesson learned, in a way.  I would much rather shoot in a normal picture style and not rely on grading than shoot in VLogL and grade any of the 8bit footage, 4K60 included.  I graded these like they were RED files and it shows when you look close enough.  Anyways, the link for the footage is in the description of the YouTube video.  All in all, I think you will get best results shooting in anything but VLogL and using shallow DOF.

Footage online in an hour or two.

41 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

Actually I wasn't referring to her being in every shot (and making every shot consequently that much better) but simply that Bondini regarding "Neumann Films" as just a man is actually the sexist part, not Panasonic. It jumps on the SJW train and disrespects both the quality of work involved in all the promos, and the actual people involved (like M) 

Trust me...we're on the same page but unfortunately, not everyone else is.

48 minutes ago, Matt Holder said:

Shallow depth of field was a winner with 96fps on the GH4 -

it seems like the lack of required sharp detail encoding allowed the sub optimal bit rate to be good enough - plus its softness was good for skin / faces. I used this all the time for handheld dollies / close up product detail shots at 12mm / f2.8 Panny is 25-35  or  25/ F .095 and never got called out for image softness by any of my clients.

Philip Bloom had a great shot in slomo of a young girls face close up with the GH4 / 25 voigtlander combo  that he used in his CNN series. Its one of my favourite shots of his ever.

I suspect the same approach will work wonders with the 180 fps mode.

Yup, in 180 shots so far best results are with Sigma Art 24 set to f 1.4.  Below shot with way more grading than the codec can handle obviously, but held up just as well as 4K/60 IMO.

58 minutes ago, aldolega said:

So it would basically be the same rule it seems most have adopted for the GH4- stick to normal gammas with 8-bit (in-camera), and use 10-bit for V-Log (i.e. add a recorder). Just with the GH5, going to 10-bit is only a matter of switching a couple settings, instead of dragging out the recorder, and the SSD's, and the HDMI cable, and the rigging...

Sounds like I will just be setting one of the custom modes on the dial to 4K60p with Cinelike D at Leeming LUT settings, and another to 4K30 with V-Log and the preview LUT. Should be pretty simple to switch between them.

As someone who shoots a lot of motion, the only things I'm worried about are the possibility of ghosting from temporal NR, and the haloing that @anti12 just posted is worrisome too. It seems like with every GH release the engineers do their best to deliver the most nail-bitingly-sharpened-and-processed image they can, and we all spend the first month or two with the camera just trying to dial that out of the picture. It would be really nice if, right off the bat, we could have the option to not just turn down, but turn off the extra processing and NR, instead of waiting/hoping for a firmware update that lets us do so.

Exactly!  I think that would be a wise course of action.

Panasonic just gave us a firmware update and now Sharpness/Noise Reduction are available as options for V-LogL.  In the footage we uploaded (that people have been grading), the settings were at defaults of 0 and 0.  So turning those down to -5 each should produce better results as far as that is concerned.

I think the key thing to take away from this is...stay away from skin tones in 60/180fps and it is a very useful tool.  If you NEED skin tones...try and light the face evenly to remove shadows/gradients.  Hell, a reflector would even work well.  You basically want to stay away from needing to do TOO much on the face. I would honestly just opt out of shooting in V-Log if I were going to do a bunch of 60p stuff.  Shoot in Standard and get it right in camera...don't touch the grade except for maybe denoising/adding film grain.  V-Log requires grade, enough grade that you basically have to incinerate the 8bit image to get 90% of what you would with just a standard profile.

In the end, once you have enough time with the camera...you will know what works and what doesn't.

Got some 180fps content ready to upload.  We just tried to capture as many different scenarios as possible.  Interiors with good lighting and ISO at 400, exteriors with no lighting at 400, interiors with only practical lights at ISO 800 and ISO 1600.  I think it will show when/where/how to use 180fps and what you can do to avoid the pitfalls of 8bit.  Much of what all of you have seen with 60 but multiplied. 

4 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

@Neumann Films I haven't heard anything about the 12-60mm 2.8-4f . Do you have an opinion about it? It seems like the best kit so far, and worth the 2500euros.

5 years warranty is amazing! Is that for all European re-sellers? In Oceania I think they offer the Log for free..

I haven't used one.

9 minutes ago, Liszon said:

Hey guys,

Maybe someone asked before, but I see this firmware update timetable, and there's something like a 48p 4K mode, probably in a 24p container. Is that supposed to be 10bit/400Mbps?

 

You know what would really help this graphic...lines.  LOL, the bottom most 48p line is hilarious.  There is a blank color subsampling line where 48p/150Mbps goes...but is that line the bottom of the 4:2:0 8 bit, or at the top of the 4:2:2 10 bit?  To me...looks to be the only 48p is all 4:2:0 8bit at 150Mbps. 

25 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said:

@Neumann Films Luke have you trying 3rd party lens with gh5? Speedboosters?

Just put a sigma art 24 on it...I don't own a speed booster, so if someone wants to send one over

8 hours ago, Orangenz said:

Thanks for being sexist and ignoring Marika. 

To be fair, her being the main subject was our choice and no one else's.  

3 hours ago, Axel said:

I must admit I completely dislike at least 95% of other peoples graded shots. Not because I think I can do better, it's probably mainly (but not exclusively, see below!) a matter of taste. My own attempt, with explanation:

On top of Panasonic V-lut (usually not recommended) I desaturated the shadows and also (like mercer) added some blue to them, but not so much. Is her jacket really a very dark blue? I substracted some magenta globally, thereby unwillingly adding more green to the trees, but fortunately the muted shadow saturation counteracted this (don't like the green in any of the shots). I boosted the saturation of the midtones, I like vivid colors, but not to the degree that the image looks artificially colorized.

I admit I am not good as far as serious grading is concerned. I think I know a lot about it in theory, probably more than most here. If you say my version is terrible, you are probably right. Do better, show, explain.

The point of this rant is, people - including me - can't grade. So why are they considering log the Holy Grail? I'd rather have a picture style that spared me all those steps and just left some color correction (which isn't a matter of taste and an artist's "eye" but merely cooking by the book with scopes). I would really love if the skin looked better. It's not wrong, it has the right tones, but it has too few nuances to look really alive. It's a pity that the above face is not in 10-bit, I'm curious to see if that made a difference.

Well...at the risk of sleeping in the dog house, my wife does have a slightly different shade of skin and I always have some trouble grading it.  On top of that, yes, the 8bit/10bit difference makes a bit more of a difference in a shot like this compared to something in direct sunlight/lighting where there would be less shading on the face (which is where the 8bit falls apart).

I wanted the snow in 60fps, so I opted for 8bit, kinda wish I had just done 30p here but...what can ya do.

8 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

If anyone is interested in learning the hows and whys of grading then the Alexis Hurkman book is very good. Here's a sample chapter:

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780321929662/samplepages/0321929667.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjlgrruyq_RAhWCWhQKHUB2DhIQFghXMAk&usg=AFQjCNHuTeG-lmowcqdfRUZ8zworMOaAkw&sig2=YNPI28RQXi8sbr7FeOp61g

As with so many creative endeavours, for people starting out, learning how to hold back can be valuable. Usually, a grade should not call attention to itself.

In the past, I've found it useful to download frame grabs of iconic movies from (not a porn site, although it sounds like one):

http://www.blubeaver.ca

Bring a few of these into your grading software and check them out on the scopes. Will give you a concrete idea of what to aim for.

Some of the examples in this thread are very poor, as has already been pointed out - the visual equivalent of the "music" generated by someone who has never played an instrument picking up an electric guitar and thrashing around like a madman. Yes, it's fun and that's good. But don't expect your neighbours to like it!

So if you are a "tone deaf" fledgling colourist making a lot of noise,  it might be possible to improve with careful study.

And lot's of practice...trial and error.  I hate so much of my old coloring work...gross.  Will probably hate my current stuff later.  Dialing it back is always a common theme in my learning experiences though.

6 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

did these go up? not trying to put on any pressure, just curious if i missed them.

Sorry, got sidetracked by something else.  I think the next video will be more insightful anyways.  Will hopefully be up in a few days.

5 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Hey Luke,

How do you like the GH5 compared to the A7S II, does it replace the A7SII (except low light, full frame and more DR)? 

Thanks!

I have never used the a7s 2, so I couldn't say one way or another.

3 minutes ago, Axel said:

On the playback issue: FCP X 10.3.1 on newest, maxed-out iMac plays back all files at full quality. Noticed some stuttering, conformed the framerates using automatic speed, they seemingly ran smoothly, still so with V-Lut and one instance of CC. Checked stop playback when frame skipping occurs (or so, german FCP X), and playback did stop a second or so into the file. XML'd to Resolve: files are missing! Transcoded everything to ProRes then. As expected, no issues then. But note that some stuttering will be normal for files that are thrown into a *desktop project" with differing framerates. 

On the colors: I am not very enthusiastic about the DR (knowing A7Rii, FS7 and BM footage). Skin looks decent, but the green of the trees doesn't look right. What I would like to see in further shots by Neumann: not V-log, but just a quick comparison of all standard picture profiles (or however Pana calls them). Please make sure sharpness and saturation are dialed down somewhat, disable iDyn and iRes and all that stuff. Sorry, I don't know the right names, it's been a long time since my GH2 experiences. With Sony I'd rather go with "Cine4" (a little flat, looking like C100's C-log) to avoid a lot of problems with weird colors, noise or banding (the latter of course not to be expected in a 10-bit clip). Thanks for the clips!

I think I'm done with tests at this point.  We might do something in anamorphic but that will probably be it.

1 hour ago, liork said:

Hi Neumann, could you check please what is the bit rate of the H.265 6K Photo file?

Keep in mind it will likely change and the feature isn't even properly working (I get a green screen in all software).

244Mbps in 6K/4:3/30p.  As of right now.

4 hours ago, MaxAperture Films said:

Hey Luke, any chance you can test out the 4K time lapse mode?  I'm curious as to whether the video file can now be saved as 10 bit 4:2:2.  That feature alone would save me a ton of work in post.  Specifically the 2 fps speed in 4K creative mode/variable frame rate (conformed to 24P playback).  Thanks.

No VFR in any of the 10bit options on the build that I'm working with.  Seems like the lower ones should be able to be added.  Makes sense to me, I will make a feature request.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Dooooooooooo it!!! :-D

The lawyers would LOVE YOU!!! ;-) 

We held off once we actually bought and owned a RED and liked it and the company...lol.

Uploading 5 or 6 more tonight.  Lowlight stuff mostly.

2 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

Yeah, you're 100% right. I think we sometimes forget to take into account just how much our lens choices affect the perception of how any given sensor performs. I'm not completely writing off the GH5. I'll definitely revisit my consideration when the Anamorphic firmware updates are realized later this year.

We currently have a 1.33x Anamorphot on a vintage Nikkor Ai-s and it's looking much less clinical.

10 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

As you know, I left my GH4/Odyssey 7Q+ combo behind for the Pocket/Micro/BMCC cameras a year ago. Was happy to trade resolution for superior color, DR, highlights, skin tones. From what i've seen of the GH5 clips today, it still falls short of the original sensors from BMD in what I consider "essential" areas. The camera definitely has some great features. The 10 bit clips stand up to much more abuse than anything I was ever able to expect from internally captured GH4 clips. They are more robust than the GH4, including the 8 bit 60p clips like the one I posted. The GH4 had some serious encoder issues that V-Log (as we remember) brought to the forefront. The GH5 seems to have improved on that, but it's still not as robust as what I get from my BMD Micro and 2.5K Cinema Camera. Going to stick with those for now. Not that someone couldnt make a fine looking film with the GH5, it's just not for me. I'm not ready to sacrifice "the essentials" for resolution. my 2¢.

Gotta take lenses into account.  I personally didn't HATE the Lumix lenses but would never actually use them day to day.  I want a little more funk/character in my lenses.

After Effects CC 2016 so far has been the best approach for me.  Grade and export to DNxHR 10 bit or ProRes for edit.

31 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Can we please have some clarification about these files? I was under the impression that these downloadable files were straight from the GH5. But the inability to play or edit three of them (24p, 30p) in almost any player/editor (or the need to re-wrap) suggests that they are not straight from camera. More than one person has reported this, and we are not beginners at video. Can't work with them in Resolve, really? Some info please?

It's a pre production camera, there could be conflicting issues in metadata tags or any other number of strange issues that are normally worked out behind the scenes before a camera launches.  It's nothing new, just need to try and get your NLE/grading software of choice to do the update now. 

AE CC 2016 worked for me and it's what I use anyways.  Graded there for DNxHR 10bit files that Premiere chopped through.

Files are straight from cam.

9 minutes ago, Vesku said:

I thought iso200 is the base iso?

Is the GH5 showing all exposure values when using video modes A,S,P and auto iso. GH4 and all other Panasonic cameras are not showing all automatic exposure values in video. In photos yes and in 4k photo video yes but in actual video modes no.

Mine starts at ISO 400, 200 isn't even an option. 

14 minutes ago, Taranis said:

Yeah, nothing you can't handle in post. While I'm not seeing a DR improvement over the GH4 (or maybe just a little), the footage seems to be completely usable.

It seems a little better.  Base ISO is 400 I think, so maybe you're actually losing some by going higher?

4 minutes ago, MaxAperture Films said:

Haha, that would've been the greatest NAB trolling of all time.  Seriously though, a sequel is well overdue... funniest damn parody I ever saw.  Crowd-fund it and make it bigger than before.

We were going to do one making fun of RED at one point.  GREEN Digital Cinema.  Created a fake Facebook page and everything:

https://www.facebook.com/greenshredder/?fref=ts

3 minutes ago, MaxAperture Films said:

Luke, I'd really like to see a GH5 shot through the Passion-Aggression chassis...  I want to find out if the picture will look bigger through that mattebox.  BTW, what ever happened to Terron and Clayton?  Will they ever re-enter the market with a new product release?  I really hope they didn't end up like the Duke Brothers.  Also, I like that the GH5 is 10% bigger and heavier.  Thanks.

 

Hahaha.  We always considered going to NAB and setting up a booth as Clayton and Terron, just making a mockery of the whole thing.  Figured that wouldn't go over too well though...