Andrew Reid

Shut up.

Mark are you drunk? Not talking about the pocket. Talking about the Production Camera 4K.

  A niche to Canon and Nikon could be another company's entire market share. The big corporations lose sight of the direction the market is heading in, by ignoring niches.   Sometimes a niche is small because the market is heading away from it, sometimes it is small because it's young and the market is drifting towards it.   The trick is to find out if it is growing or not.   Actually most manufacturers have been very reactive to our niche, whatever the size, and added 24p for example very quickly. So it can't be that small.

The BMPC 4K is ergonomically poor and the weight is all on a narrow plain, which isn't something that can easily be solved by rigging, except for adding yet more weight.   What I enjoyed about the MINI is that it is so small and light.   The image quality of the sensor in the BMPC is suspect. Some people have said 8 stops usable dynamic range and ISO 400 native. That's a really noisy, dynamically range challenged chip. I don't see how they can clean up the output to get 12 stops from it. Global shutter has a big trade off for image quality, unless you're investing millions in bespoke CMOS technology like Sony with the F55.   So I'd rather have a rolling shutter and better image quality. That's the main factor for me in the BMPC vs KineRAW MINI debate.   I think if the KineRAW had a Canon badge on it, the internet would be on fire.

  I'm treating the raw market as a buyer.   Blackmagic haven't delivered for me.   Kineraw are making a more appealing product in the MINI. Slow mo, Super 35mm sensor, 4K upgradable. OK you have global shutter on the 4K BMCC but at the expense of image quality. What's more important?

Yes same as S35 in low light as it is a raw camera, and has the same sensor.

  Um, just transcode to ProRes at the end of every day's shoot? Not hard!

  Can you read? I'm saying they are better featured. Never mentioned sales at all!

On the European website, the raw port for the 4K output is a 279 euro optional extra and you can add it to the base 3199 model. But I will investigate to be sure on this.   The recorder price hasn't been announced so you're plucking $8k from the air.   As for the other comments on this thread, you need to raise the quality of your posts guys.

[media]http://vimeo.com/72841566[/media] KineRAW MINI is now available to order from Kinefinity's official European reseller Kinefinity are at BIRTV in Shanghai this week. Dan Chung has been there to speak to Kinefinity and the European dealer HD Videoshop now have more details on the MINI upgrades in the pipeline. [url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/11058/4k-upgrade-path-for-kineraw-mini-confirmed-with-kinedeck-6k-external-recorder]Read the full article here[/url]

There's no need to drop the price. KineRAW MINI is not a BMCC clone. It is getting a 4K upgrade path and has a better image than the 4K BMCC. That's worth paying a bit more for.

I run that Kingston HyperX in my Mac as the main boot drive, has been flawless.   The lower end Kingston SSD Now was provided by BM themselves when they sent me a demo unit Shuttle recorder.   Kingston are a good brand.

  Latest I heard raw video mode WAV audio was still disabled in Magic Lantern due to sync issues.

Has he really retired, or just withdrawn temporally from forum posts?   Jarred seems to be anointed successor, as he's younger.   Geoff Boyle's response is on the article comments (first comment)   http://www.televisual.com/news-detail/Jim-Jannard-resigns-as-CEO-of-camera-maker-Red-_nid-3144.html

  Haha. Sadly not the case.

The BMCC doesn't have a Super 35mm sensor, isn't very good in low light, the form factor isn't as good, it won't get 4K via an external recorder, can't do off-line CineForm, doesn't have built in LUTs, doesn't have a side-grip add-on, has issues with rolling noise, doesn't do 100fps 720P so I don't see it as a clear winner despite the lower price.

[media]http://vimeo.com/72605257[/media] Magic Lantern's raw recording module for the 7D is a perfect illustration of why colour depth and dynamic range are more important than resolution. It's also a huge step up for Canon APS-C video shooters and free. [url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/11017/raw-video-on-the-canon-7d-super-35mm-raw-for-under-1000]Read the full article here[/url]

Some seriously wonky maths going on. I can't factor in conversion rates, can only speak for Europe where the camera is currently shipping, for a set price.     Aside from the high performance media which you don't have to buy (you can use generic SSDs) how in any way is the following over priced compared to competing raw cameras?   Bodies:   5D Mark III = 2700 euro KineRAW MINI = 3199 euro   Basic components for 5D = 4x 64GB CF cards = 500 euro 4x spare genuine batteries = 300 euro 1x monitor = 500 euro Cage and top handle = 500 euro   Total inc. body = 4500 euro   Basic components for KineRAW = 2x 120GB SSDs = 150 euro 1x Switronix PB70 = 250 euro 1x monitor = 500 euro Top handle = 100 euro   Total inc. body = 4199 euro   Other raw shooting bodies...   Scarlet = 15,000 euros (kitted up) FS700 + recorder = 11,000 euros F5 + recorder = 16,000 euros Epic = 25,000 euros Alexa = 70,000 euros   OK it is not suitable for someone to whom $600 for a GH2 is a lot of money I admit that. But c'mon. Enough with the moaning.

Sometimes emails can get lost or go into spam folders. I've emailed you with a new link. Cheers

£8200? On what planet?

Better? Or just different.   Super 8, Super 16, S35 and even IMAX have existing alongside each other for decades. No filmmaker considers one 'better' than the other, just a different brush to paint with.   With cameras, of course there are ones that do the same thing better than another, but I don't automatically consider a camera like Digital Bolex 'DOA' just because it has a small sensor!

No hack or uncompressed raw camera is suitable for live event shooting. You'd be nuts to shoot hours and hours of footage per day on a BMCC because of the storage requirements, and the possible time I'd take to convert or grade it.   On the issue of reliability, over at BMCC User a guy says he had his SSD fail after smashing up a car in the most vital scene in his movie, lost all the footage and may have to do an expensive reshoot.   Makes a GH2 freezing seem insignificant doesn't it?

It's good a price bubble hasn't formed.   Look at the Iscorama.   Canon ship DSLRs in their millions. It'd have to be a very BIG niche to have an affect on eBay prices of DSLRs wouldn't it!?   Magic Lantern and raw video are bigger than you think and more important than you assume in the greater scheme of things, but they are not going to affect the price of cameras.

Most people are shooting raw on the 5D Mark III, it's far superior, but that doesn't mean to say 50D owners should sell up. I mean look at what you're getting for the money - an insane amount.

  Will ask the German distributor, I think they ship Europe-wide. No extra VAT or duty within EU, so you don't need to wait until CVP stock one.