Andrew Reid

Nightmare fuel

Thoughts on rolling shutter and press trips. I think there's a bigger problem with Panasonic and it's the competition. Nikon Z8 used prices... $3000. So the Panasonic's not the best value hybrid camera, and not the best spec's either. And it doesn't have the most versatile, well established mount either. Sony a7r V - higher resolution, used prices also around $3k. Canon EOS R5 used prices also a problem... $2k-2.5k GFX 100 is another competitor, with chonky 4K and much larger sensor for also around 2.5k-3k used. Why buy a new camera over those? When it isn't better or cheaper? Panasonic need to either be cheaper or better. You can't be more expensive and worse.

Fair play for the correction. I think with any bayer sensor there is a way to invoke moire, if the texture is fine enough and at the right distance. On his closer shots the issue was solved by the 8K sensor, but the S1H with the AA filter should have the advantage in all the other cases and further away from the subject. Is it worth worrying about? Not too much, but worth being aware of. I am still too upset about the S5 body design to care about the S1R II too much, let's see what panasonic bring with the S1H II 7 years from now.

I think I have answered it myself... The compression in H.265 is the result of bad tests. They are using the MP4 mode which has extremely low bitrates. In MOV we have 8K H.265 10bit 422 at 400Mbit, similar to the Sony a1's 500Mbit 8K mode post firmware update. This I have experience of and it was a match for N-RAW as far as the lack of compression, great shadow detail and a fine noise texture goes. There's also a Prores 422 HQ 700Mbit/s mode in 4K/24p, so a reasonable step up from 400Mbit. Remember however that H.265 long GOP at 400Mbit is equiv. to H.264 at 800Mbit so if you see a ton of macro blocking in that I'll be surprised! The ProRes codec has the advantage of being ALL-I though. According to Newsshooter where you can see the full breakdown of bitrates, 4K in H265 MOV is 190Mbit, so equivalent to 380 H.264. https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/05/10/nikon-z8-announced/ Aside from the wide range of bitrates... I like the fact it has no crop in 4K/120p plus the option of DX and 2.3x crop. The 2.3x crop is nice for Super 16mm lenses. Plus the high-res Zoom option for pretty much any crop factor between 1 and 2.3 One last thought, it seems Nikon did agree with the Canon 70d that the right place for the stills/movie mode is under your right hand.

There is a 700Mbit/s mode in NRAW at 4K 24p which could be good half-way house between too much compression and the huge file sizes of the 8K NRAW and Prores modes. This is among the smallest file size for RAW shooting on any camera, alongside C-RAW Lite 6K on the EOS R3. I have seen this test which shows the compression in the red channel with H.265. What's a bit frustrating is the lack of info about what bitrate was selected and so on... I assume it was graded from LOG. According to Slashcam the H.265 bitrates in MP4 are tiny. https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Nikon-Z8-in-der-Praxis--Die-bessere-Z9-fuer-Video--8K-RAW-50p-Bolide-mit-Feinschliffbedarf--alles-.html# Will certainly see some compression in MP4. But what about the H.265 MOV mode?

Haha. Nice. Must be confident in the autofocus performance then! Although perhaps I am reading too much into it and it tells us more about the state of BBC News than anything camera related!!

I'm against the new stills/movie/S&Q dial being on the left. You can't operate it quickly under your main gripping hand with the rest of the controls. Nobody quite seems to have been able to grasp yet that Canon got it right in the DSLR days with the 70D stills/movie mode switch near the AF-On button! Aside from S9 I agree, S9 is designed to be something different and fun. I'd prefer to pick that up for certain things over the S1R II. Better than OG S5 but that was pretty terrible, one of the least inspiring designs and EVFs ever, even for 5 years ago. S5 II was an improvement but not by enough. It's a bit like the difference between a7 II and III. Because Panasonic entered the full frame market so late they have not been able to go through 5 generations of iterative kaizen like Sony. The GH2 and in a different way GH5 remains for me one of the best Panasonic cameras looks and ergonomics wise but they have tossed those older designs out completely now rather than evolving from them. S1H with the mechanical shutter and top panel is wonderful isn't it? Just a bit clunky and dated now. I would take the S1R II's image and video capabilities over the A7R V but 100% agree with everything else!

I just think they had a chance to do something really nice, and after 7 years did something very middle of the road. Given this is a 3600 euro camera, they could have at least kept the fancy S1H top LCD which was the finest on the market at the same time as just shrinking the body down and trimming some fat. It would have been nice to rub some of the sharp edges off, it has no graceful curves at all. The S9 also looks very basic and unimaginative, yet with a few tweaks and a viewfinder could have looked lovely. It doesn't need to be X100 level, just better than boring and mediocre. S5 II is not the type of body that screams to pick it up for fun. And I really dislike the rear jog dial, it's so spongey. If they had kept the basic S1H body concept to the tee, just added some nice curved edges and shrunk it in size without removing key features or shrinking the screens... that would have been the Pana flagship for the ages. Instead we got pure dullness! The question is, if they are coming out with an S1H II later this year will they also do an S5 II replica, or push out something more exciting?

Funnily enough that massive microwave screen bezel doesn't look out of place. Only at second glance did I see it 🙂

Very cool, thanks. It's a thing of beauty. Control scheme is groundbreaking. No more main menu diving.

I find it over-engineered and fiddly with the catch, and too thick. Have you tried the a7r V? Screen mechanism is in a different league. I think you'll find S5 II and S1R II a big step down from that.

Do tell us more!

It's nearly time for a spring clean where 4 or 5 cameras turn into 1! I have decided to divest in L-mount. The Sigma Fp-L is staying but I'm moving on from Panasonic and the L-mount lenses with no plans to get more. When the Sigma BF comes out I'll certainly consider swapping the Fp-L for it but want to see if it retains Cinema DNG raw video. Nikon Z8 used prices are now under $3000/3000 euro. So it's a cheaper option than the Panasonic S1R II, with a much more flagship design of body and very nice chonky EVF. Of course the autofocus is in a different league and the sensor is a lot faster. I thought about returning to a Sony a1 and selling my a7 IV along with some Fuji stuff. But the a1 prices are still as high as 12 months ago and well above what I'll find a Z8 for. Nikon Zf mount has the nifty Leica M autofocus adapter (latest version) from Techart, and the MegaDap Sony E mount adapter which serves all my autofocus needs without requiring a $15,000 investment in Nikon Zf lenses. Thank the lord. Whereas with the S1R II and L-mount, options are very limited for adapters. Sigma 35mm F2 ART for Sony E-mount on a Nikon Z8 is a tempting duo. Build quality tip top and not too big. Ergonomically fantastic. 8K RAW video and super fast. One of the best range of H.265 codec options and some very good crop modes. 4K/120p full frame mode. So I think it's time to get into Z mount in a big way and commit to it. Would you go for the Z8, or something else for $3000?

They will leave 8K 60p and faster sensor performance for an S1H Mark II presumably. It will probably be able to match the Nikon Z8. The question is, do we need another Z8?

So the 6K 60p is a crop with vertical binning according to Slashcam, but still very good detail: https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Panasonic-LUMIX-S1R-II-Sensor-Bildqualitaet---Debayering--Rolling-Shutter-und-Dynamik--Rolling-Shutter---Panaso.html#4KDebayeringPanasonic

Nice long (2 hour!) review from Richard Wong. I've been thinking about the standardisation of body designs at Panasonic. Taking inspiration from Sony they seem to want to design a one-body fits all standardised ergonomics. But the lack of the top panel LCD and the angular body of the S5 Mark II does nothing for me. And I'm wondering when Panasonic will start adding a bit of flair and soul to their designs. If they came up with the S5 Mark II body design as a way of creating a Sony a7 IV mould to then go and do a whole set of other cameras with only minor ergonomic changes, they have done a really bad job. The S5 Mark II body is not flagship material. Sony a7 IV is. The Sony a1 has an almost identical design and ergonomics to the a7 IV, but still feels like a flagship. It's been the same since the Sony a9 being based on the a7 III. The Nikon Z8 is probably the nicest of the bunch I think? Not too small, not too big, top panel LCD, very nice viewfinder hump, feels premium. So in general just the design... what do people think of the direction Panasonic have taken since the S5 Mark II to standardise their bodies? The G9 II of course shares the same basic layout and looks too. Maybe they will break the mould a bit with the S1H Mark II if we ever see it? They could certainly use some imagination at this point.

He uploaded the originals which is good... https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1obqp8z2FJCVnLswPCDq4MYPdat6va-AQ?usp=sharing S1H I thought didn't really have a moire issue in 5.9K. So perhaps he has found a way to break it.

Is the full frame 4K 60fps on the S1R II actually oversampled from 8K/60p? The sensor is too slow for that. So when he labels it 4K/60fps full frame, I can't help but question it. It's either a crop or binned, it can't be a full frame oversampled mode.

In Berlin at the moment they have had a number of damaging strikes as they don't treat their workers properly. The thing with MPB is that they should not make this the customer's problem, but intervene on their side and promptly refund if DHL loses a package. They have basically just tossed me to the wolves and said wait 1 month, maybe you'll get something, maybe you won't. It's fucking terrible customer service.

Ah Scotland! Have you any experience with https://www.ffordes.com? They have been pretty good from a buying perspective.

Nice idea for a test but he's only testing the APS-C modes. On a 24 megapixel sensor we are talking rather low resolutions in 1.5x crop mode - something between 12-15 megapixel. So he is comparing 12 megapixel with no oversampling to 44 megapixel with oversampling. What happens when he does the same in full frame. S1H with AA filter at 6K full pixel readout, versus S1R II at 8K - the result would be much closer. S1R II in full frame at 60fps is pixel binning, which is the worst thing possible as far as moire on fine textures is concerned. So it would be nice to see him extend the test beyond APS-C mode, but then that would complicate the conclusion which isn't as attractive for YouTube videos.

I see, so low end compared to ARRI.

The big difference on a forum is the discussion is led by the customer. On YouTube the discussions are led by sales people. That's because the medium lends itself better to glossy marketing. It's TV. Of course you also have a mix of content, not all of it is marketing in disguise as editorial. But I always ask myself, what is the main purpose of the big-name reviewers and what they do... Is the main purpose client journalism, which pays their wages, gets them access, maintaining relations with the PR people at major corporations, going on the junkets and trips, getting your hotel paid for and so on, this is text book client journalism and it allows the camera companies to orchestrate all the good vibes you see in videos like this, by the usual slick operators. Or is it real journalism from filmmakers, like on Vimeo in the early days when we had actual pros and enthusiasts, customers of the camera companies not clients of the camera companies, putting their own independent field tests and shoots up. We have clearly had a bit of a pivot towards corporate propaganda since then unfortunately. And that's not to say the info in these kinds of videos isn't informative or useful in some way or another. But the purpose of it is to sell. I prefer to get my information from other filmmakers and people who can shoot. Chris is an actual real-life store salesmen. There's a layer of gloss over everything he does because he's a good salesman. That's his job, was before, is now. He understands the product, that's also part of a salesman's job. But he doesn't understand filmmaking or photography and that is a huge thing missing from a review of what's supposed to be an artistic tool. There's no Art in it. No cinematic language. Missing are any kind of outspoken views or provocations. There's a craft and grift but not so much any creativity or creative looking shots at a high level (not mediocrity or just eye candy) And it's also quite dry like reading advertorial, not very much humour or insight. Exhibit B: "Better than Sony & Canon" Northrup likes to employ a strategy of playing the different camera marketing teams off against one-another. Which makes them put more effort into satisfying his need to be happy, and his need for access. The troll headlines also have another purpose, to excite the masses in the comments section - most of whom are Sony and Canon users. It's not a one off. He tried it with the S5 II review as well "Better than Sony" If Northrup genuinely thinks Panasonic are a better option than Canon or Sony now you wouldn't know it from his Sony and Canon hype pieces! I know I am at risk of repeating myself here but I really do think all of this should be looked at by the FCC. YouTube is supposed to be part of the open web, not a haven of client journalism under the thumb of a small cartel of suppliers and their PR people. And the camera companies should realise that their modern marketing strategy is going to fall off a cliff pretty soon. People are getting a bit sick of it. People want honesty, journalism and independence, not a circus of shilling. Yes entertainment as well. And it is rare these days I am entertained enough to sit through their social media influencer marketing pieces.

Different planet these fucking filmmakers 😉

FX9 is low end?